Dissecting Erfinder’s comments

[erfinder]

I am slow, just read the page on icehouse about "The Bedini Free Energy Generator".
Bedini=blue

Now this "free energy resonant coupling" can be done in a simple, cheap system. You don't need big cyclotrons and huge laboratories to do it; you can do it with ordinary D.C. motors, batteries, controllers and trigger circuits.

First we will need a big accumulator to hold a lot of the charged ions in the system that we wish to shock into oscillation. We need something that has a big capacitance and also contains a lot of ions.


An ordinary battery filled with electrolyte fits the bill nicely. While it is not commonly known, ordinary lead-acid storage batteries have a resonant ionic frequency, usually in the range of from 1-6 MHz. All we have to do is shock-oscillate the ions in the electrolyte at their resonant frequency and time our "trigger"potential and "siphon" current correctly. Then if we keep adding potential to trigger the system we can get all that "potential" to translate into "free electrical energy".

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Mention was made during the previous discussion of the g field and kromery which are related as here http://www.icehouse.net/john1/foreward.html

"Resonant coupling" that's something that needs to be investigated by all. What is resonant coupling as it applies to the subject matter? It is suggested that this "resonant coupling" can be done simple, that it can be done with ordinary D.C. motors, batteries, controllers and trigger circuits. Here we are presented with an "idea" its suggested that to put the idea into practice we need a large accumulator which holds lots of ions, a battery, the ions in the battery are then shocked into oscillation. The rest of the disclosure just throws you into this perpetual circle where you have no idea which way is up. We know what we need, and that's where it stops, nothing in the disclosure explains why! The relation of the parts shed no light on our situation, its as if we are to speculate on the relations, and hope for the best.

So we have an accumulator, a reservoir of ions, we know its not going to excite itself, but are given no insights into how the disclosed circuit delivers the claimed effect. How the components are combined isn't questioned, the circuit is provided, however, a schematic isn't a description of the actions taking place inside the circuit. What actions within the motor, and between it, the controller, and trigger circuits, result in the oscillations needed to shock into oscillation at their resonant frequency? It was stated that the resonant ionic frequency is in the range between 1-6 MHz. This frequency band exceeds the limits of the components responsible for exciting the battery! This begs the questions of:

• What is the mechanism through which the oscillations are generated and maintained?
• How does the mechanism produce the oscillations?
• How are these HF frequencies passed on to the battery to excite the ions?

When we look at the schematic we see that the battery will receive a pulse from the monopole generator. When the battery receives this impulse from the generator is not disclosed, the inventor gives no indication of where and when the generated wave will be interrupted, bridging the generator with the battery. The inventor gives no insight as to the nature of the energy generated by the generator! What we are led to speculate is that the generator is a monopole configuration much like the mechanical oscillator which was inspired by this very same topology. Truth as I have come to see it is similar is not the same. The coils do not present a monopole polarity to the magnets. The polarity of the coils alternate. The magnets on the other hand always have the same magnet pole facing the coils. In addition to this, it was pointed out by the inventor that the Watson machine, a device inspired by the free energy generator, had a non linear magnet to coil topology, this is of profound significance, but the inventor never ever sheds light on this aspect of the circuit. When you begin to place the pieces back together, you begin to see that the the generator is special! The complex waveform (oscillations if you prefer) which is responsible for exciting the ions of the battery electrolyte are generated by the generator!. In my opinion we aren't dealing with a generator in the true sense, "energizer" or powered magneto (complex wave generator) are better suited.

Food for thought.....


Regards

[aln]

Still working to understand:

The switch, 555 monostable vibrator, in Bedini's picture switches between battery and "g field" or "energizer" do you use similar switch. Bedini's picture shows on/off time. very curious. How many switch points per revolution? One per magnet pass? 3 per magnet pass? It does not appear to be the same on and off time for the motor vs the generator.

[aln]

Let us look at what has been discussed then: From Ferris wheel discussion

Bedini=Blue

The machine requires one DC motor, 555 timer circuit for pulses to chop the DC motor, one mono pole energizer and one large mass weight wheel. the two signals are out of phase from each other. and a capacitor tuned to the energizer. That is the mystery. other then that some simple wiring, you wont do it on a small scale. As I said it is right in front of your eyes. It's the way you think about it.

since it is not a conventional generator you must store the charge before you discharge the capacitors to the batteries. If the timing is right the batteries charge right up to full.

I have used no reed switches as they are not dependable in this motor. It uses Hall devices in both sections.

Everybody should be able to see the coil arrangement, notice the outside coils 1/2 the impedance of the big center coil Total impedance of three coils 12 .2 ohms for that machine, not the three pole monopole kit.

On the monopole if you do it this way you must think about how to switch the output capacitor and use an inverted switch on the output batteries, again this is not the same machine. If you going to use the BI-POLAR SWITCH you can not trigger it like the SSG, I said it used halls.

Ren,
The Motor/Generator is also switched at five points of the magnets all coils being series arrangement, you can see the five dots. when they line up the magnets are popped with a trigger signal in the mean time everything is shorted out flux wise.
John

The coils are in phase, for a measured inductance of 12.6 ohms. What everybody is forgetting is the rotor is held in magnetic lock condition by the axial motor/generator as I showed this at the conference when starting the re-gauging motor.

The re-gauging takes place when the magnetic flip occurs.

Another thing here is the Axial Motor with pie cut magnets, What did ED say about his Perpetual motion holder, except Ed clamped it shut I did not do that I took advantage of the forces between poles in a series configuration and only needed to switch two little pulsed or what is called Re-gauging

I asked a simple question what is ED's machine and can you put it together or not. This is important because then you will understand how my big machine was ideling for no current.

[aln]

[*]What is the mechanism through which the oscillations are generated and maintained?[*]How does the mechanism produce the oscillations?[*]How are these HF frequencies passed on to the battery to excite the ions?[/LIST]
When we look at the schematic we see that the battery will receive a pulse from the monopole generator. When the battery receives this impulse from the generator is not disclosed, the inventor gives no indication of where and when the generated wave will be interrupted, bridging the generator with the battery. The inventor gives no insight as to the nature of the energy generated by the generator! What we are led to speculate is that the generator is a monopole configuration much like the mechanical oscillator which was inspired by this very same topology. Truth as I have come to see it is similar is not the same. The coils do not present a monopole polarity to the magnets. The polarity of the coils alternate. The magnets on the other hand always have the same magnet pole facing the coils. In addition to this, it was pointed out by the inventor that the Watson machine, a device inspired by the free energy generator, had a non linear magnet to coil topology, this is of profound significance, but the inventor never ever sheds light on this aspect of the circuit. When you begin to place the pieces back together, you begin to see that the the generator is special! The complex waveform (oscillations if you prefer) which is responsible for exciting the ions of the battery electrolyte are generated by the generator!. In my opinion we aren't dealing with a generator in the true sense, "energizer" or powered magneto (complex wave generator) are better suited.

Food for thought.....


Regards

Old Pic from Beardan with a different on/off time

Beardan=Green
The trick here is to get the battery to recharge itself, without furnishing normal power to it, or expending work from the external circuit in the process.
To do this, recall that a charged particle in a "hooking" del-phi river moves itself. This is true for an ion, as well as for an electron. We need only make the del-phi in correct fashion and synchronize it; specifically, we must not release the hose nozzles we utilize to produce our del-phi river or waves.
The inventors who have discovered this have used various variations, but here we show a common one.
First, we add an "energizer" (often referred to by various other names) to the circuit. This device makes the del-phi waves we will utilize, but does NOT make currents of electron masses. In other words, it makes pure Ø-dot. It takes a little work to do this, for the energizer circuit must pump a few charges now and then. So the energizer draws a little bit of power from the motor, but not very much.
Now we add a switching device, called a controller, which breaks up power to the motor in pulses. During one pulse, the battery is connected and furnishes power to the motor; during the succeeding pulse, the battery is disconnected completely from the motor and the output from the energizer is applied across the terminals of the battery.
If frequency content, spin-hole content, etc. are properly constructed by the energizer, then the ion movements in the battery reverse themselves, recharging the battery. Again, remember that these ions MOVE THEMSELVES during this recharge phase. Specifically, we are NOT furnishing ordinary current to the battery, and we are not doing work on it from the energizer.
If things are built properly, the battery can be made to more than recover its charge during this pulse cycle.
To prevent excess charge of the battery and overheating and destroying it, a sensor is added which senses the state of charge of the battery, and furnishes a feedback signal to the controller to regulate the length of recharge time per "power off" pulse. In other words, the system is now self-regulating.
The relation between power pulses and recharge pulses is shown on the graphs at the bottom. Note that regulation may decrease the time of recharge application of the del-phi river.
This system, if properly built and tuned, will furnish "free shaft energy" continually, without violating conservation of anenergy. Remember that the del-phi condition across the battery terminals means that spacetime is suddenly curved there, and conservation of energy need no longer apply.
Again, this system is consistent with general relativity and with the fact that Ø-field alone can drive a situation relativistic. We have deliberately used these facts to do direct engineering. Our "extra energy" comes from shifting phi-flux -- the energy of the universal vacuum spacetime -- directly into ordinary energy for our use. Thus we draw on an inexhaustible source, and our device is no more esoteric than a paddlewheel in a river. The only difference is that, in this case, we have to be clever enough to make and divert the river in the right timing sequency.
This is a free energy device which an ordinary person, who knows a little electronics, can experiment with in the basement. To develop it, one is talking several thousands of dollars and a lot of persistence and tinkering; one is not talking millions.

[erfinder]

so.....what are "del-Phi" waves......funny how you never see a scope shot...

[aln]

you got me, I'm just parroting I was mostly interested in the pic and how the on/off times were different than the one on John's site. Found them at the link that guyzzemf posted, cheniere.org. Have read all of it before, del-phi river flowing right over my head, no idea what it is. There were some pic's of "o wave"

Found this while browsing same website, In relation to your use of bemf:

• The power company uses the energy content in fossil and nuclear fuels to crank the shaft of the generator. This forcibly separates the opposite charges in the generator and its external circuit, forming a source dipolarity. By its asymmetry of opposite charges, every dipole in that dipolarity then continuously extracts EM energy directly from its local vacuum, and pours it out to form the associated field and potential energy available in the circuit to power the loads and losses.
• In the standard closed current loop system, half the energy collected from the vacuum by the external circuit is used only to drive the spent charges through ground return back to the generator and through the back emf of its source dipole. This forcibly scatters the separated opposite charges and destroys the dipolarity, quenching the free extraction of EM energy from the local vacuum.
• The other half of the collected energy in the external circuit is dissipated in the losses and loads of the external circuit itself. So less energy is used to power the load than is used to destroy the source dipolarity.
• To get more energy from the vacuum, it is necessary to again restore the source dipolarity in the generator and external circuit. To force the opposite charges back apart, at least as much shaft energy must be input to the generator again, as was used to destroy its dipolarity.
• Hence greater mechanical energy must continually be input to the shaft of the generator than is dissipated in the loads. The standard closed current loop circuit guarantees COP < 1.0 operation. The only reason for this insane operation is because the circuit is built specifically to require it and self-enforce it. Nature does not require it.
• Thus our power engineers only build power systems that destroy their “free extraction of vacuum energy” process faster than they use some of the vacuum-furnished energy to power their loads. We must pay to continually crank the generator shaft to restore the dipole that the circuit is designed to continually destroy.

[dennis foyil]

so.....what are "del-Phi" waves......funny how you never see a scope shot...

Two cents worth of peanuts: On Pp. 157&158 of JB's "circuits" book he is shown explaining the INFORMATION CONTENT OF THE TRIGGER PULSE. the diagram shows the pulse after the transistor. infolding?

[Dave Wing]

so.....what are "del-Phi" waves......funny how you never see a scope shot...

Now I am not sure if these are them or not, as I really have not really looked into this as far as I should. And they are only drawings of potential scope shots. Three are from the Bedini 1984 book and the other a user from energetic forum posted.

[erfinder]

Now I am not sure if these are them or not, as I really have not really looked into this as far as I should. And they are only drawings of potential scope shots. Three are from the Bedini 1984 book and the other a user from energetic forum posted.
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Do you have a link for the source of that last image?


Edit....found it.....

[aln]

Stole these from the other thread.
Erfinder=red
"listen to the machine! There is a different type of induction taking place, I am not qualified to explain how its different to you, its your job to explain it to yourself. This different type of induction allows for the acceleration to take place when the output coils are loaded. In addition to the type of induction there is a unidirectional magnetic field found in this topology. We find this unidirectional magnetic field in the stator, the magnetic circuit is completed through the rotor poles. The field of the stator doesn't change, the field of the induced in the rotor alternates, this makes for a very interesting combination, one that you have to carefully scrutinize and study, because in my opinion, its here, where AC and DC interact where we find the seed of that which we all are looking to capture."

Focus your attention on the facts. Reduce the system to the minimum number of components. "IF" you want to build a Kromrey or G-field, you must start with the most basic design, comprehend whats happening in the most simple of designs. View it as scientific as you possibly can, view it in light of the present accepted view, whether this view is flawed or not is immaterial. Once you have the necessary understanding of the manifesting phenomena, then and only then should you "consider" advancing. I have been working in this area for a few years, and have found many patents on the subject. The one that left the most lasting impression on me regarding this technology is the following:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p.../US5191258.pdf

The "ABSTRACT" says about all you need to understand where the acceleration force is coming from. This is one of the most well well thought out patents on this principle that I have yet to come across, the author does his best to keep "his" interpretation of the phenomena simple, he doesn't try to confuse the subject with conjecture, nor does he try to mislead the reader.

Patent author:
ABSTRACT:
"An alternating electric current generator comprises an armature rotatably carried by a drive shaft and positioned between stabilized, non-moving magnetic elements. The armature has first and second magnetic fieldtransmitting sections with a magnetized section sandwiched therebetween. As electric load is applied to the generator, a countermagnetic field is generated through the armature to increase speed of the drive shaft and thereby lessen the torque required to rotate the drive shaft."

[bob smith]

ABSTRACT:
"An alternating electric current generator comprises an armature rotatably carried by a drive shaft and positioned between stabilized, non-moving magnetic elements. The armature has first and second magnetic fieldtransmitting sections with a magnetized section sandwiched therebetween. As electric load is applied to the generator, a countermagnetic field is generated through the armature to increase speed of the drive shaft and thereby lessen the torque required to rotate the drive shaft."

In other words, the stator's coil topologies and the way they are joined together essentially establishes the conditions which enable reactive power to be harnessed to assist (rather than place drag on) the rotor's spinning. Hope I've got that right.
I believe this is what Erfinder has been trying to get people to understand all along.
Bob

[erfinder]

In other words, the stator's coil topologies and the way they are joined together essentially establishes the conditions which enable reactive power to be harnessed to assist (rather than place drag on) the rotor's spinning. Hope I've got that right.
I believe this is what Erfinder has been trying to get people to understand all along.
Bob

Yup....seems like you are one of the few listening Bob. The point is not so much the "in your face effect", its the mechanism, the nature and desire of that which moves through this geometry is of profound significance and interest to me. Like the moth is drawn to the flame, the majority are immediately drawn to the acceleration effect, the red herring. Distracted, they miss the message, which is, in my opinion, UNIDIRECTIONAL FLUX. Tesla said something funny once, something which supports my view, namely, in his system the currents aren't allowed to reverse. What is current? I have heard all the arguments regarding what was implied by Tesla's statement, and the idea that current has something to do with the "electron theory" is familiar to me as well, (I don't buy into the electron theory as it applies to current...), to those who would bring those arguments back to my attention, I offer the following. Tunnel vision = stagnation. We must connect the dots, we must make connections which aren't there until we make them.


Regards

[bob smith]

Thanks for the reply to my post, Erfinder. I've seen you stating this case on another forum, citing the example of one of Bedini's setups. Rather than counter-intuitive, I think it's simply outside the conditioned box, but for some reason it made sense to me this time around. The whole idea of unidirectional flux seems to me to fit well with this coil arrangement. It would seem to me to mesh in the most proper way with questions around polarity of inductive kickback in a pulsed coil. Gotta go, but continuing to think on it. Always enjoy your posts.
Bob
Edit: Thought a lot about the inductive kickback, but think it's simpler - plain and simple cemf, and using coil topology to harvest it. Lots of possibilities for motor design improvement, no?

[erfinder]

Thanks for the reply to my post, Erfinder. I've seen you stating this case on another forum, citing the example of one of Bedini's setups. Rather than counter-intuitive, I think it's simply outside the conditioned box, but for some reason it made sense to me this time around. The whole idea of unidirectional flux seems to me to fit well with this coil arrangement. It would seem to me to mesh in the most proper way with questions around polarity of inductive kickback in a pulsed coil. Gotta go, but continuing to think on it. Always enjoy your posts.
Bob
Edit: Thought a lot about the inductive kickback, but think it's simpler - plain and simple cemf, and using coil topology to harvest it. Lots of possibilities for motor design improvement, no?

I am of the opinion that we can and will make improvements in motors, the question that isn't asked is, why? The only beef that anyone has with any motor or generator in operation today are those "negative" effects associated with the self-induction. The geometry that we were left with, here I am specifically referring to DC motors, is for lack of a better way of putting it....flawless. We can expand on it, but will ultimately end up with the same thing that we started with, new associations, but ultimately the same thing.

In my opinion, inductive kickback is CEMF, however, not in the accepted sense. It's good that its called inductive kickback, or inductive discharge, the name attached to the phenomena implies that something more complex is responsible for the manifestation of the effect. The potential arising from the collapsing field "should" be collected via a second coil, but not for reasons that are presently discussed and or debated, this also is my opinion.


Regards

[bob smith]

I am of the opinion that we can and will make improvements in motors, the question that isn't asked is, why? The only beef that anyone has with any motor or generator in operation today are those "negative" effects associated with the self-induction. The geometry that we were left with, here I am specifically referring to DC motors, is for lack of a better way of putting it....flawless. We can expand on it, but will ultimately end up with the same thing that we started with, new associations, but ultimately the same thing.

I agree. While there are mods that can be done to DC motors (such as UFOPolitics has done [which I believe can be adapted for better output], and perhaps something more along the lines of what EV Gray produced), it seems to me that the easiest way to use the lenz counter-force to our advantage is via a magnetic rotor and multi-coil stator as JB, you and others have shown.

In my opinion, inductive kickback is CEMF, however, not in the accepted sense. It's good that its called inductive kickback, or inductive discharge, the name attached to the phenomena implies that something more complex is responsible for the manifestation of the effect. The potential arising from the collapsing field "should" be collected via a second coil, but not for reasons that are presently discussed and or debated, this also is my opinion. Regards

Again, I agree. There is a lot of material and electrical energy waste, and without acknowledging this waste, the question of "why?" is not raised in ways that it needs to be. My feeling is that the magnetic rotor is one important way out of this connundrum. It also allows for the collection of inductive kickback through a second coil. It seems to me that Litz wire would also allow this energy to be amplified.
Regards,
Bob