Dissecting Erfinder’s comments

[erfinder]

I agree. While there are mods that can be done to DC motors (such as UFOPolitics has done [which I believe can be adapted for better output], and perhaps something more along the lines of what EV Gray produced), it seems to me that the easiest way to use the lenz counter-force to our advantage is via a magnetic rotor and multi-coil stator as JB, you and others have shown.

Sorry Bob, but I cannot let this one fly. I do not support UFO's senseless butchering of perfectly sound devices! He literally has some and many more joining in everyday, convinced that mainstream got it wrong, and he got it right. Its OK, hes entitled to his opinion, but some opinions, should be kept to ones self! Please forgive my tone, but, I am growing tired of the mess that is being made on his threads. His "disclosure" equates to nothing more than configuring things back to the original basic topology as presented in the text books! Unfortunately he is not prepared to accept this! You cannot fight with the truth. For some reason he thinks, and has convinced far too many, that he has reinvented the wheel, and has ignorantly dubbed this, his twist on the electric motor, asymmetrical??? Review the information he has presented, and see if you can spot the asymmetry!?! Your search will turn out fruitless. You could save yourself the trouble of going through all the info and just ask him to show you the asymmetry....you will get attacked. You will not receive what you ask for, and if by chance you kiss enough ass to get him to come off his high horse and speak with you, what he will share will make little or no sense, and have very little if anything to do with asymmetry as it is defined! I highly recommend you try your luck getting any real and "useful" info out of him.......you'll love the experience. I have found, through studying those who have an idea, that what we are looking at and for is an orthogonal relation, and not just in the visible, also in the invisible world of the fields. From an orthogonal base, we can begin working towards establishing asymmetrical conditions. When seeking asymmetry, we must pay attention to simple things like for example the speed difference between the applied field, and the collapsing field. Seeing this difference for what it could be, a manifestation of asymmetry, a manifestation of what some in the know call non-linearity. That was one simple example, there are many others.

The modifications that are being suggested and carried out by the UFO and his replicators, are in a word senseless, not because they are wrong per se, its more the logic behind it all, the logic is fundamentally flawed. I know, who am I to make such a statement, the answer is Erfinder. An individual who appreciates the beauty, simplicity and genius in what we were provided with by the authorities. Take a closer look at UFO's suggested geometry, compare it to the original, concept, here you must look at the text book, not necessarily at the motor. Manufacturers wind motors in different ways for different reasons. Many of them stray far from what the text books illustrate. UFO takes the manufactures winding concept which is in many cases fundamentally flawed, but from their perspective, serves the purpose that their customer desires, and blames the choices made by industry on mainstream science??!! See his changes for what they are and not for what he says it is. Comprehend, and accept that 'fundamentally' he didn't improve anything! I could say more, and want to, but the horse is dead...no sense beating it to a puddle.

Again, I agree. There is a lot of material and electrical energy waste, and without acknowledging this waste, the question of "why?" is not raised in ways that it needs to be. My feeling is that the magnetic rotor is one important way out of this connundrum. It also allows for the collection of inductive kickback through a second coil. It seems to me that Litz wire would also allow this energy to be amplified.
Regards,
Bob

In my uneducated opinion Bob, there is no waste, replace the word waste with ignorance and you have the issue at hand. The way out comes in the form of a layman's view to how all of this stuff works! When the authorities can speak to the layman, change can begin. As it stands, they don't appear to have an immediate interest in communicating with us in "our" language. The phenomena Inductive kickback is screaming a message so deafening to those who can hear it, that if and when it is comprehended, can and more than likely will change everything! All I can say, and this is pure speculation, is that this discharge current overcomes impedance! That people, to me, in a word......MAGIC!


Regards

[bob smith]

Thanks Erfinder for your honest reply. As far as UFO's motors, I built a few and left it at that. I did see some electrical anomalies in their running and powering up that also seemed to appear in some so-called radiant energy experiments. However, as per the motor's efficacy and functionality, I can't say. I believe they could be exploited/modified in the direction of the EV Gray motor in a way that harvests inductive kickback. This would be a new direction, and I don't have the time right now, though I've been formulating it in my mind for some time. In any event, I respect your take on this and your work.

I think we both agree on the promise of harvesting the backspike to assist the motor. Yes, magic and indeed a game-changer. It will happen, and I believe it will outstrip a number of other alternative energy-seeking pursuits by opening a door onto a wide variety of possible applications, wherever motors and coils are used. I hope this puts us on the same page.
Bob

[erfinder]

Thanks Erfinder for your honest reply. As far as UFO's motors, I built a few and left it at that. I did see some electrical anomalies in their running and powering up that also seemed to appear in some so-called radiant energy experiments. However, as per the motor's efficacy and functionality, I can't say. I believe they could be exploited/modified in the direction of the EV Gray motor in a way that harvests inductive kickback. This would be a new direction, and I don't have the time right now, though I've been formulating it in my mind for some time. In any event, I respect your take on this and your work.

I think we both agree on the promise of harvesting the backspike to assist the motor. Yes, magic and indeed a game-changer. It will happen, and I believe it will outstrip a number of other alternative energy-seeking pursuits by opening a door onto a wide variety of possible applications, wherever motors and coils are used. I hope this puts us on the same page.
Bob

Hi Bob,

The internet is filled with excited experimenters "capturing" inductive kickback. Our idea of capturing is not capturing, its dead ending the force. We are to harness it not dead end it. Honestly I don't think capturing it is possible. What we consider as capturing isn't capturing, if it isn't capturing, what are we doing? My opinion, I feel we are supposed to be learning from the collapsing field. The phenomena themselves can become the instructor, we must empty our cup, as the saying goes a full cup can't be filled.....We must not make the mistake of identifying with the phenomena, observe it, learn from it as it manifests in our circuits. This approach to learning is far removed from text book learning, for we are getting our impressions directly from the source, and not through the mechanism of rationalizing.

Regarding UFO, we aren't on the same page. Even if by sheer happenstance, he trips over something interesting, coming from him as he interprets and expresses his view now, it will be meaning and purposeless. There was a time when I gave him the benefit of the doubt, this was early on when he first began sharing his thoughts, in the beginning, whether he was aware of it or not, he was on the right track. He has fallen soo far from where he was, and is now nowhere near where he "should" or "could" be.

Only a fool wouldn't want what EV Gray is claimed to have had. Consider this, what if the power pulse, the one that developed the torque didn't come from the power supply? I don't think it did. I have read all the info that's being placed in our hands about the history of the device and find this info really good. The question I have though, is can we do better now, we may never know how it was done. How do we do it today? As I said, I feel the power supply isn't where the power came from to spin the shaft. I feel it comes from somewhere else, I've demonstrated where I think it comes from. This is speculation as far as the idea is concerned, however, in my own defense, the bench don't lie. If you are interested in experiencing what I am suggesting first hand, shoot me an email, lets talk about it.

erfinder@forgotten-genius.com


Regards

[bob smith]

Hi Bob,

Our idea of capturing is not capturing, its dead ending the force. We are to harness it not dead end it. Honestly I don't think capturing it is possible. What we consider as capturing isn't capturing, if it isn't capturing, what are we doing? My opinion, I feel we are supposed to be learning from the collapsing field. The phenomena themselves can become the instructor, we must empty our cup, as the saying goes a full cup can't be filled.....We must not make the mistake of identifying with the phenomena, observe it, learn from it as it manifests in our circuits. This approach to learning is far removed from text book learning, for we are getting our impressions directly from the source, and not through the mechanism of rationalizing.

Only a fool wouldn't want what EV Gray is claimed to have had. Consider this, what if the power pulse, the one that developed the torque didn't come from the power supply? I don't think it did. I have read all the info that's being placed in our hands about the history of the device and find this info really good. The question I have though, is can we do better now, we may never know how it was done. How do we do it today? As I said, I feel the power supply isn't where the power came from to spin the shaft. I feel it comes from somewhere else, I've demonstrated where I think it comes from. This is speculation as far as the idea is concerned, however, in my own defense, the bench don't lie.

Excellent point of clarification about harnessing, rather than seeking to capture the inductive kickback. If I understand correctly, the mistaken idea of trying to capture the collapsing magnetic field is like filling a bucket from a stream and pouring it onto a waterwheel to make it turn, rather than allowing the stream to turn the wheel itself (perhaps a crude analogy). As you say, much better to harness its power, allowing it to enter the system from without, as you say. Much could be said and developed around this once it's properly understood. My sense is that it's been overly-mystified and in its place people seem content to trifle with small exercises with little practical implication. However, the real approach is a game-changer. Will be in touch.
Bob

[aln]

Like the moth is drawn to the flame, the majority are immediately drawn to the acceleration effect, the red herring. Distracted, they miss the message, which is, in my opinion, UNIDIRECTIONAL FLUX. Tesla said something funny once, something which supports my view, namely, in his system the currents aren't allowed to reverse. What is current? I have heard all the arguments regarding what was implied by Tesla's statement, and the idea that current has something to do with the "electron theory" is familiar to me as well, (I don't buy into the electron theory as it applies to current...), to those who would bring those arguments back to my attention, I offer the following. Tunnel vision = stagnation. We must connect the dots, we must make connections which aren't there until we make them.

Regards

How do you see the currents erfinder? Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnEl...DDR5KA&index=3
ed leedskalnin magnetic current

[bob smith]

Something to chew on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STI3koWbzE4
Bob

[bigmotherwhale]

Thanks Bob very interesting experiment, i tried this using a separate coil, i will try it this way.

just out of interest erfinder would your preferred coil switching method be a mosfet on each side of the coil? if so then i can see how the supply could be back popped, does it light a neon bulb across the supply line when you spin the motor by hand?
also do you have some videos of your work, i saw some once that were impressive but i have lost the link.

[erfinder]

How do you see the currents erfinder? Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnEl...DDR5KA&index=3
ed leedskalnin magnetic current

Please allow me to attempt an answer to your question with a question. Is there anything wrong with this image?




Regards

[erfinder]

Something to chew on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STI3koWbzE4
Bob

The famous recirculating BEMF video that started that movement. Correct me if you think I am wrong, but isn't this text book?



How does luc's demonstration differ from the norm? This isn't a question that needs an answer, in my opinion, there is no difference. Here is a shematic that was provided by luc.



Is there a lesson here to be learned here, if so, what is it?


Regards

[erfinder]

Thanks Bob very interesting experiment, i tried this using a separate coil, i will try it this way.

just out of interest erfinder would your preferred coil switching method be a mosfet on each side of the coil? if so then i can see how the supply could be back popped, does it light a neon bulb across the supply line when you spin the motor by hand?
also do you have some videos of your work, i saw some once that were impressive but i have lost the link.

High and low side switching methods do not as far as I have been able to ascertain, "back pop" the supply. What they do is recharge the supply using conventional generator action mixed with the inductive collapse. That is not what I am looking for. What I am looking for and have accomplished (back popping as I interpret the phenomena), manifests only when one utilizes a circuit of properly communicating coils, in conjunction with a simple PWM circuit. The PWM is basically a mono-stable configured timer, triggered by a hall sensor. The mono-stable outputs to the fet driver, fet driver drives the fet, simple. Getting the effect is easy, or at least it has been for me. Understanding why its even possible is another subject. Comprehending enough to be enabled to magnify that which is hitting the supply capacitor will be difficult for many, however, one must have ones prize in sight, it makes all the difficulties encountered and to be encountered bearable.

I don't want to light a neon with generator action. What I want is to establish those conditions in my generator where an inductive discharge can be produced. The inductive discharge is then used to light the neon. The conventional generator must be pulsed, pulsed at the proper location in the induced wave. A pulsed generator is in essence a Magneto. Please don't take this lightly, there is more to it than simple coil shorting, but you know that already, coil shorting alone has yet to yield any fruit.

I removed all of my videos, I am in the process of reorganizing, and may upload them again some time in the future.


Regards

[bigmotherwhale]

Thanks, i was just referring to the built in diodes in the mosfets creating a conducting path, a half bridge,
my next train of thought was that you didn't switch the coil on, you switched a pair of coils that were powered "off" by switching across them, which seems to be whats in the diagram. i also had a thought about using the circulating current in the coil to power itself and to couple to that with another output coil, please tell me if i am barking up the wrong tree, the best extraction i have achieved has been with a separate winding. I was also looking into magnetic amplifier topology. need to do experiments!

[erfinder]

Thanks, i was just referring to the built in diodes in the mosfets creating a conducting path, a half bridge,
my next train of thought was that you didn't switch the coil on, you switched a pair of coils that were powered "off" by switching across them, which seems to be whats in the diagram. i also had a thought about using the circulating current in the coil to power itself and to couple to that with another output coil, please tell me if i am barking up the wrong tree, the best extraction i have achieved has been with a separate winding. I was also looking into magnetic amplifier topology. need to do experiments!

There is no tree. You know what you are after, I recommend you test till go get the results you want. The best recovery I have ever experienced with an SG circuit was with a circuit which was intentionally impedance mismatched. The result was that what I consider was 90 percent of the recoverable energy was outputting at the diode at the switch, and the remaining 10 percent was detectable at a second winding. When the extra coil was removed from the circuit, there was what looked like a 60/40 split. The higher of the two always manifesting at the switch. Something similar to this was demonstrated in one of the big Ferris wheel replications at one of the conferences. I don't experiment with the SG anymore, but that was a fascinating set of experiments, yielding really interesting results.

Mag amps are really interesting, I am looking at and experimenting with them myself.


Regards

[bigmotherwhale]

The circuit i built push pull (the one that exploded because it got so fast) was impedance mismatched, i had twice the number of turns on the repulsion winding i also had a separate recovery winding which i tried 1:2 ,I tried the circuit again on my bigger sg but had disappointing results either the frequency was too low or the magnets were different strength, i dont know, i didnt see anything special and the current draw was high. i need to try again with better switching is what you said last time.

i also experimented with capacitors across the coil in a standard setup sg, which gave me much bigger output but caused the current to rise as well, i have seen designs for a delay line motor not sure if it was called that but it was an circular LRC network in resonance with a rotor in the middle

have you looked at the work of Walter Russel? if you haven't its a game changer in my opinion light years ahead!
look at the dynamo optic generator, he mentions power amplification as nature does it follows 8 16 32 64... or vice versa - reminded me of the impedance mismatch and the don smith setups.
i have been wanting to play with this idea, and everything has been leading down the same path - vortex technology or call it what you will, seems to be how nature likes to cool things down, ie gain energy.

if you like the mag amps another thing you should try out is the Stan Meyer stuff, its really easy to achieve resonance with just some basic circuits and inductor/ transformer. getting the transformer windings big enough to operate at a frequency that matches the cell was the part i gave up at. it still worked well enough to produce gas and show all the classic degenerate semi conductor properties on the anode, and a 5ma draw at the resonance peak, just at 1.6mhz, not circa 7khz anyhow this thread is not about this.
regards

[erfinder]

The circuit i built push pull (the one that exploded because it got so fast) was impedance mismatched, i had twice the number of turns on the repulsion winding i also had a separate recovery winding which i tried 1:2 ,I tried the circuit again on my bigger sg but had disappointing results either the frequency was too low or the magnets were different strength, i dont know, i didnt see anything special and the current draw was high. i need to try again with better switching is what you said last time.

i also experimented with capacitors across the coil in a standard setup sg, which gave me much bigger output but caused the current to rise as well, i have seen designs for a delay line motor not sure if it was called that but it was an circular LRC network in resonance with a rotor in the middle

have you looked at the work of Walter Russel? if you haven't its a game changer in my opinion light years ahead!
look at the dynamo optic generator, he mentions power amplification as nature does it follows 8 16 32 64... or vice versa - reminded me of the impedance mismatch and the don smith setups.
i have been wanting to play with this idea, and everything has been leading down the same path - vortex technology or call it what you will, seems to be how nature likes to cool things down, ie gain energy.

if you like the mag amps another thing you should try out is the Stan Meyer stuff, its really easy to achieve resonance with just some basic circuits and inductor/ transformer. getting the transformer windings big enough to operate at a frequency that matches the cell was the part i gave up at. it still worked well enough to produce gas and show all the classic degenerate semi conductor properties on the anode, and a 5ma draw at the resonance peak, just at 1.6mhz, not circa 7khz anyhow this thread is not about this.
regards

This isn't my thread, you can bring up whatever you want as far as I'm concerned, everything is related, I like to think so anyway.

Walter Russell is central to what I do. I am trying to comprehend how his power amplification principle can be applied to the forces generated in motors and generators. I don't share your view resonance, I think of resonance as a catalyst. I don't believe coils have what we call a resonant frequency. I feel there is a sum of all possible resonant frequencies, what I would call "eigen" frequency, and this is what I think Keely called the chord of mass. I desire to strike this chord. I'm thinking the mechanism through which this can be facilitated is with a generator of proper construction. Any frequency can become "the" resonant frequency when the proper amount of capacitance is added. I have found what I feel is a another kind of resonance, this form of resonance is mentioned in the literature. I feel this form of resonance is directly related to a specific series of harmonics. I feel coils respond to all frequencies, and have come to the conclusion that there exists a specific series of frequencies where this other form of resonance predominates. This form of resonance is rectangular, versus sinusoidal. I think the connection to Russell is in the relation between the sine and square waves generated by properly constructed machines. The square wave is the three projectors, and six mirrors. The relation that the sine has to the square should be clear. The phase of the sine must be manipulable, so as to be associated with a specific corner, the the method by which one is granted the ability to identify and select the 012343210 points in the sine is also of extreme importance. Let your imagination fill in the rest, you know what becomes possible if this speculation could ever become more than just speculation, you know his works.

I haven't looked at the delay line motor. Sounds interesting, if you have more info, post it if you don't mind.


Regards

[bigmotherwhale]

http://www.google.com/patents/US4189654 delay line motor

i dont think resonance is the method of power production, however if you want to run a motor or "circulating current" its useful to be able to repeat at a rate that the elements work at, the rate is not important, at least not for this
I use the russilian science too, i do think keely was another great mind both my favorite theories. its interesting you brought him up too.
i have been looking at Russel and keely for a while now, such amazing people, generations ahead of the staus quo.
the stan meyer transformer is fed with a square wave it produces a perfect sinusoidal waveform at the resonant frequency
bob - i tried the diode mod just now, across the power and a recovery coil, both make my batteries stop charging the current draw goes down and the coil makes a louder sound, the speed of the wheel is pretty much unchanged.
the cosmic induction generator seems to be quite alot like the dynamo optic generator in many ways
what do you think of the twin opposed coil method the transmitter><receiver combo?