Aln's edited notes from Erfinder's discussions.

[Bradley Malone]

This is how Walter Russell viewed a magnet. Notice the low pressure long waves and high pressure short waves. In JB's vid onthe kromrey he says something like "the highest you can get with this coil configuration is 300 something but i can get it up to 400 something" well if what i am thinking is correct and Walter russell is correct about the magnets...then if you put different impedance coils that make the poles concentrated as in the photo maybe it would increase the reaction by getting in more in line with nature. for instance if you wound the "three coils" that Bedini talks about in the kromrey but instead of a trifilar coil you make three coils that you attach in parralel so that you achieve the low impedance he was talking about but in that one impedance... one coil could be lower the other two higher ....to me that sounds like it would mach the russell picture. put more windings on the two coils where the poles should be more concentrated " center of bar and end" and put less on the center coil.

If you also look at the bar magnet in terms of normal coils if there is a permanent double pole in the middle and you only ever make a one way coil....you will always fight the other side. Maybe the two coil idea is the key to allowing current to flow without always wanting to destroy itself by flowing.?

[Yaro1776]

aln,

Skip the red pill and remain true to your original purpose - finish what you set out to do. There is no secret worth hiding beneath the covers, best to keep all above board and let the chips, with respect to veracity of the information, fall as they may.

Bottom line here is show me and duplicate the experiment/process - this is good science.

Yaro

[Bradley Malone]

aln,

There is no secret worth hiding beneath the covers, best to keep all above board and let the chips, with respect to veracity of the information, fall as they may.

wish more people thought this way!!! all my equipment has been like 5 states away for a year now....CAN'T TEST ANYTHING!!

[aln]

aln,

Bottom line here is show me and duplicate the experiment/process - this is good science.

Yaro

I was not going to respond but I went back to read your comment again and I will. This does not benifit the thread.

Yaro, I have nothing more than you do. "Show me and duplicate." If you believe there is merit to what Erfinder has shown as I do, do not ride on my coat tails. I am no further than anyone else. If you want my notes you can have them, I will email them to you. I am hiding nothing. I have no secrets. I have been busy at home and work and am reading Ken Wheeler's book a second time. You do not see what I am doing so you guess that I am hiding some secret from you. You seem sensible when you write so reread what you wrote and ponder how I am to take it. I posted the Matrix video clip because that is basically what erfinder was suggesting, it was in part to humor myself. I recognize my limitations. So I will challenge you with your challenge to me. "Show me and duplicate the experiment/process." I will send you the 65 pages of single spaced #10 print comments that erfinder publically posted if you desire; in order to help you realize things were purposely left out. If I had something to share, if I had duplicated and verified erfinders findings, I would have shared, and then jumped down the rabbit hole as I would have nothing but $ holding me back. I am learning about magnets right now. Watch tinmanpower's vortex video's they will sum it up if you haven't read the book yet. God bless, sorry for the rant. Aln

P.S. This post is directed at Yaro, no-one else.

[Yaro1776]

aln,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I apologize directly to you if the post's meaning and intent were unclear, and in the end offensive to you. My poor writing and editing skills. I have, and will continue, to support and encourage your efforts in condensing the notes. I applaud the time and brain power that you have put into this editing project for the benefit of others, and in no way did I mean to imply that you were hiding something. Not the case!

I was, and am still, offended by the pressure put on you by other posters to stop this note editing process. The completion of these notes by you will provide an organized body of information from erfinder in a condensed form. The final proof of his, and others, hypotheses will only come about with repeatable and duplicatable efforts by others - that is good science.

Best to you,
Yaro

[OrthoParameter]

Erfinder Kit Ownership

I have learned all I can from the Erfinder kit. I am moving on to building an efficient, almost zero drag windmill generator based on the knowledge I have acquired.

I would like to sell it to the highest bidder if the forum owner agrees to allow me to post a link here for a fee of 10% of the proceeds. Otherwise, I will take it apart, place it in it's beautiful orange foam insulated hard case, and let it gather dust in my storage room.

No questions or comments will be answered in PM or here until the forum owner has answered with instructions on how to proceed.

[Tom C]

message sent to the appropriate parties.

Tom C

[Tom C]

ortho please share your windmill build with us, love to see your progress.

Tom C

[Tom C]

Ortho,

you may sell the kit here, please use the donate to forum paypal button to help support the forum after it is sold. thanks for your honesty!


Tom C

[OrthoParameter]

Ortho,

you may sell the kit here, please use the donate to forum paypal button to help support the forum after it is sold. thanks for your honesty!


Tom C

No problem... and thanks! I will post an ebay link in a few days when I can get to it.

Preemptive offers accepted in the mean time by PM. Any winning offer would require open disclosure should I decide to accept. Thanks.

[Tom C]

The motor !!

hi everyone, I bought the motor from ortho... had it for a few days now. pictures following soon.

we were all trying to decipher his posts, and I thought that perhaps this would shed some light on the subject, but it does not. there is nothing in this motor that reflects his theories......

if this is his orthogonal design, then all dc motors are orthogonal, and most ac ones also.

you will all be very disappointed. there is no mag amp effect or coils within coils or anything closely resembling his theories. I have had the circuit and motor analyzed by an electrical engineer, a 250 dollar per hour engineer. .... for the simple reason that if this motor was something special I would have given credit where it is due and encouraged more research. But alas it was not to be, and in the interest of full disclosure it will all be disclosed.

the motor is a beautiful piece of craftsmanship, and it makes a great conversation piece. there are a couple of unique features to the drive circuit but they are not unknown, the primary one being a now discontinued texas instruments "soft start" IC used to drive the fet which is driven by a hall triggered 555 timer adjustable with a pot. the traces on the circuit board are huge, and very close together, and this leads to cross inductance losses, which limits the circuits ability to be really efficient, there is just too much cross talk on the traces, that was one of the first things the E.E. pointed out to me.

the motor itself is a completely standard off the shelf in design and function. the odd order harmonic square wave phenomenon is a result of hi voltage, and what would be circulating currents in the coils, when run in hi inductance mode, which produce huge losses in the system, and a known phenomenon mentioned earlier in this thread and verified.

the buffer capacitor charging is simply a result of a DC motor becoming a magneto when the power is cut off to it. like an old Harley Davidson starter motor, this is nothing spectacular and in fact is something we would have known had some simple disclosure been made as to the magnet and coil design and topology.

the buffer cap does not charge unless the power is cut to the machine by turning off the PWM. perhaps this could be harnessed by turning the PWM off and on at specific times. without the buffer capacitor it would obviously back feed the primary and blow things up. I do not know why he was shocked when this happened to him without a buffer cap.

the unit does not self run, does not exhibit ANY, I repeat ANY unknown phenomena. loading the motor down mechanically increases consumption and causes a timing shift to have to be made with the hall sensor, which some of us have seen him do in a few video's

this motor cannot achieve the square wave phenomenon as it is currently wired at low voltages. 140 volts is probably the starting point. 140 to 160 volts DC. this is a very expensive power supply to purchase!! and it can kill you or blow up your mains.

there are 2 modes a low inductance mode and a hi inductance, this is simply coils in parallel or coils in series.

I have spent a lot of time and money as a result of this. it was important to me to get to the bottom of this motor and what it was supposed to show to verify theory.

Don't waste your money. if you want to build one go ahead, but it seemed all of this was to try and get us to buy a kit, and the promise of something in the future that was earth shattering.

feel free to ask any questions you may have I will do my best to answer them.

I will stick to 12 volt experiments thank you, I cannot get killed or destroy my house wiring.

Tom C

[min2oly]

hi everyone, I bought the motor from ortho... had it for a few days now. pictures following soon.

we were all trying to decipher his posts, and I thought that perhaps this would shed some light on the subject, but it does not. there is nothing in this motor that reflects his theories......

if this is his orthogonal design, then all dc motors are orthogonal, and most ac ones also.

you will all be very disappointed. there is no mag amp effect or coils within coils or anything closely resembling his theories. I have had the circuit and motor analyzed by an electrical engineer, a 250 dollar per hour engineer. .... for the simple reason that if this motor was something special I would have given credit where it is due and encouraged more research. But alas it was not to be, and in the interest of full disclosure it will all be disclosed.

the motor is a beautiful piece of craftsmanship, and it makes a great conversation piece. there are a couple of unique features to the drive circuit but they are not unknown, the primary one being a now discontinued texas instruments "soft start" IC used to drive the fet which is driven by a hall triggered 555 timer adjustable with a pot. the traces on the circuit board are huge, and very close together, and this leads to cross inductance losses, which limits the circuits ability to be really efficient, there is just too much cross talk on the traces, that was one of the first things the E.E. pointed out to me.

the motor itself is a completely standard off the shelf in design and function. the odd order harmonic square wave phenomenon is a result of hi voltage, and what would be circulating currents in the coils, when run in hi inductance mode, which produce huge losses in the system, and a known phenomenon mentioned earlier in this thread and verified.

the buffer capacitor charging is simply a result of a DC motor becoming a magneto when the power is cut off to it. like an old Harley Davidson starter motor, this is nothing spectacular and in fact is something we would have known had some simple disclosure been made as to the magnet and coil design and topology.

the buffer cap does not charge unless the power is cut to the machine by turning off the PWM. perhaps this could be harnessed by turning the PWM off and on at specific times. without the buffer capacitor it would obviously back feed the primary and blow things up. I do not know why he was shocked when this happened to him without a buffer cap.

the unit does not self run, does not exhibit ANY, I repeat ANY unknown phenomena. loading the motor down mechanically increases consumption and causes a timing shift to have to be made with the hall sensor, which some of us have seen him do in a few video's

this motor cannot achieve the square wave phenomenon as it is currently wired at low voltages. 140 volts is probably the starting point. 140 to 160 volts DC. this is a very expensive power supply to purchase!! and it can kill you or blow up your mains.

there are 2 modes a low inductance mode and a hi inductance, this is simply coils in parallel or coils in series.

I have spent a lot of time and money as a result of this. it was important to me to get to the bottom of this motor and what it was supposed to show to verify theory.

Don't waste your money. if you want to build one go ahead, but it seemed all of this was to try and get us to buy a kit, and the promise of something in the future that was earth shattering.

feel free to ask any questions you may have I will do my best to answer them.

I will stick to 12 volt experiments thank you, I cannot get killed or destroy my house wiring.

Tom C

Thank you very much for sharing this.
sincerely,
Patrick

[Tom C]

here are a few pics...

Tom C

[OrthoParameter]

I'm sorry to hear that Tom. I was hoping that you would be able to find something that I could not due to my lack of knowledge and experience in relation to motor/generators.

I agree with you that the "back charging" is strictly conventional generator action. I argued with Steve about that issue because of his belief that using that topology created a "virtual capacitor" between the winding junctions. My argument was that a capacitor-like discharge into another capacitor would take place in tens of nanoseconds and was not what I was seeing. I see a 68% discharge in the first time constant and then continued discharge as the motor spins down. I honestly think, in my opinion, that he has deluded himself on several issues. He claims moving the timing forward makes the motor draw more current and run faster because of a "phase shift", whereas, I believe it simply a matter of "moving the brushes" to a better position to counteract the armature reaction.

I thought he was my friend, I was certainly his until his change after buying his kit. I (we) were belittled and insulted for not "doing the work" required to "see things the way he saw them".

There are many other things I could say, but they are only my opinions and would not serve any purpose here.

What I can say is that I apologize for ever defending him on this forum.

I can see now that (again it is only my opinion) that everything he told me was nothing more than rainbow colored unicorn poop cookies.

[Tom C]

I'm sorry to hear that Tom. I was hoping that you would be able to find something that I could not due to my lack of knowledge and experience in relation to motor/generators.

I agree with you that the "back charging" is strictly conventional generator action. I argued with Steve about that issue because of his belief that using that topology created a "virtual capacitor" between the winding junctions. My argument was that a capacitor-like discharge into another capacitor would take place in tens of nanoseconds and was not what I was seeing. I see a 68% discharge in the first time constant and then continued discharge as the motor spins down. I honestly think, in my opinion, that he has deluded himself on several issues. He claims moving the timing forward makes the motor draw more current and run faster because of a "phase shift", whereas, I believe it simply a matter of "moving the brushes" to a better position to counteract the armature reaction.

I thought he was my friend, I was certainly his until his change after buying his kit. I (we) were belittled and insulted for not "doing the work" required to "see things the way he saw them".

There are many other things I could say, but they are only my opinions and would not serve any purpose here.

What I can say is that I apologize for ever defending him on this forum.

I can see now that (again it is only my opinion) that everything he told me was nothing more than rainbow colored unicorn poop cookies.

Ortho,

I am glad you sold it to me and it is worth every penny I paid to see it for what it is worth. I also agree with you on your interpretation of "moving the brushes"

I actually had a lot of hope for this motor, the harmonic square wave was and is an interesting phenomena, but is explainable. most motors are designed to damp those oscillations in the windings, and it is only the extremely hi voltage that allows circulating currents to appear in the coil and square the wave.

the recovery circuit is truly a look at the generator function that all pulse motors have, it switches between load and discharge, all very normal for a P.M. motor. one of the biggest problems with permanent magnet motors is the "flyback" into the circuit when the motor is off. I had to modify a bunch of motors on an amusement ride, as they kept blowing up the reed switches that we were using to control the relays to power the motor.

I told him both privately and in public if he would disclose fully we would be champions of his work if it proved out, and we would encourage more research, he chose the path of being a snake oil salesman.

simply because you have re defined standard terms to fit a theory, if you cannot prove it on the bench it is hogwash. at least JB allows us to replicate his work. this motor proves nothing except that he may be a decent CNC programmer.

His post as "kiril" which he deleted quickly says he has more "magic" in the wings. glad you did not wait for it.

He does everything John tells us not to do, the neo magnets, the hi voltage, the lack of batteries, all of it. the E.E. I showed this to is very familiar with John's work, and understands theory quite well and has replicated a ton of his work.


I am sorry he was also a charlatan in his friendship to you, friendship is more important than money.

Tom C