Aln's edited notes from Erfinder's discussions.

[OrthoParameter]

my version 1 took around 40 hours to build.... if I did it again i could probably half that.

Tom C

That doesn't sound bad.... I'm usually good for a slow paced ten hour work day so I don't break stuff! I'll get everything I need ordered and just take my time with it. I just downloaded and browsed the Max 2 assembly manual.... funny about the tape removal.

The Melamine parts are covered with a special cutting mask that prevents the laser cutting operation from depositing cutting byproducts on the Melamine surface.

You'll need to remove all of this material before beginning construction.

This process is called the Five Stages of Masking Tape.

1. Denial - Oh there's no way I need to scrape all this tape off those parts? Do I?
2. Anger - @#$%@#! This sucks! I've NEVER SEEN SO MUCH TAPE IN
ONE PLACE IN MY LIFE!
3. Bargaining - “Well hi there, Significant Other! Would you PLEASE remove
all this tape for me? PLEASE?”
4. Depression - This tape hates me. *sobs quietly*
5. Acceptance - Well I suppose if I'm ever going to get this thing built, I'd better
get on with it and get all this tape removed...*sigh*

too funny.... Pretty sure I've been through those stages on other issues with other projects.

[OrthoParameter]

Ok, I pulled the trigger on it. Hopefully it will be here by Friday or next Monday. Going to round up assembly materials I don't already have so I can be ready to start.

[Tom C]

yea the tape took a long time.... and it smells like burned melamine... stunk up the living room for a couple of days.

Tom C

[OrthoParameter]

yea the tape took a long time.... and it smells like burned melamine... stunk up the living room for a couple of days.

Tom C

yikes! the wife is going to love me.... I'll have to retreat to my cave and open the window some with a space heater when it's cold.

[Halfcutt]

Hello Tom

I'm disappointed you found the motor to be nothing special. You too, ortho, no one likes the taste left in your mouth after feeling ripped off.

I was hoping I could ask a couple questions!

Tom, are the high and low inductance coils wound together in each coil? How and when are they switched between high and low? How many times does the motor switch using the halls per revolution, and when?
Does the supply charge the high inductance or low inductance or both at once?

Thanks

[Tom C]

I knew once someone was selling it there was probably a bit of disappointment on the part of the purchaser. there are a few things I will never sell, the gifts JB has given me over the years are priceless, and I would never sell them, because they do what the inventor claims and I can use them now. they will never end up in a crate in my garage gathering dust.

the coils in low inductance are in parallel, in hi they are in series. there is only one strand in each coil. there are 6 poles and the hall switch timing disc has 6 magnets. there is only 1 hall. it switches at the junction between the coils. you switch inductance by physically removing the coil plug from one spot on the circuit board to another.

it is just a pulse driven permanent magnet motor, driven by a pwm circuit.... he stated such. it was all smoke and mirrors.


Tom C

[OrthoParameter]

Hello Tom

I'm disappointed you found the motor to be nothing special. You too, ortho, no one likes the taste left in your mouth after feeling ripped off.

I was hoping I could ask a couple questions!

Tom, are the high and low inductance coils wound together in each coil? How and when are they switched between high and low? How many times does the motor switch using the halls per revolution, and when?
Does the supply charge the high inductance or low inductance or both at once?

Thanks

There are 6 coils in all treated somewhat as coil pairs. Each slot is shared by two coils. The coil wires are all brought out to a spring terminal connector that can plug into the control board in one of two sockets. One socket is hardwired for high inductance with all the coils being connected anti-series. For low inductance the coils are arranged in parallel.

There are three small magnets on the timing wheel and the hall sensor holder fits over and can revolve around the timing disk. The pulse is fired at the junction of the two coils in the slots and then shifted to fire at the center of the coil.

Using the low inductance arrangement, and careful adjustment of the pulse width modulation potentiometer; I was able to double the power supply voltage on the smoothing or buffer capacitor. This is the same thing that happens in resonant charging a capacitor for a tesla coil as can be seen here on richie burnett's tesla coil page....skip down to the "de-queing the charging circuit" about half way down the page.

To back charge in that manner, you simply turn off the power to the PWM control board. The inductor (coils), discharge through a de-queing diode back into the power supply smoothing cap but prevented by another diode from entering the power supply.

Tom posted while I typed this, but I will post anyway.

[OrthoParameter]

On another note, my Rostock MAX™ v2 Desktop 3D Printer Kit was shipped today and I have received notification from USP Quantum View that it will be delivered tomorrow, Wed the 26th!!! So fast! Can't wait.

[Dave Wing]

Hi Tom and Ortho,

Could you please tell me if the kit has demonstrated any or all of these claims as offered/written by Erfinder?

"The kit will enable one to perform all of the tests that I did to get the effects that I demonstrate in the early videos, some of which folks are familiar with and some not. To name a few:

supply back charging
recovery
understanding how to see the device as an LC
comprehending the phase shift mechanism as it applies to induced potential
comprehending the phase shift mechanism as it applies to induced current
the separation of motor and generator action so as to utilize the generator action" Text taken from a personal email from Erfinder to myself On 2014-06-13.

Thank you,
Dave Wing

[Tom C]

looks like ortho answered your questions dave. I would say the effect most people were interested in, well at least I was is the generator effect. I was under the assumption (my mistake and Steves poor communication skills) was that the generator action was happening while the machine was "running" but that was not so. any permanent magnet motor will generate power when its supply is cut off.... so that was "shown" but the capacitor does not stay charged nor does it allow the machine to run, it cannot be a generator at the same time as it is a motor. so that is simply a separation of motor and generator action, a fancy way of saying I turn the machine off.

the recovery circuit can light a light bulb, but it is way under unity and is just across the coils as a load. nothing fancy there.

so the word "induced" is to me misleading, if I turn on a switch on a blender, I am inducing current, and potential (voltage) to the stator, and a rotational vector to the rotor armature of the blender. if he just said when I turn the machine on we would all understand....... the implication is that he does something to the machine and the machine in turn does something else to the output, its just a motor.

his take, and ortho if I am wrong please correct me, as far as the LC component, was that there was a virtual capacitor in the coils, forming an inductor with the coil making an LC, and the square wave oscillation was proof of this. you Dave, found out what this is called in E.E. parlance from the over unity research forum, this was verified. it is actually something that makes the motor more inefficient, as it causes circulating currents in the coils, they heat up.

this motor does everything you don't want an overunity motor to do.


I am going to slap a full B/C circuit on it, if the coils are close to the right resistance and use it for something. just need to get the coil pair wire leads oriented the correct way and add a hall to the other side of the timing holder.

the best part about all this is we can finally talk about this openly and get questions answered. what I get out from this is this, is that steve had said " I am not really interested in what your opinion is until you see what I see in my machine" well what he saw in his machine was settled knowledge with P.M. motors, his theories did not pan out.

I wish with all my heart it would have been otherwise, we could have supported him, his research and we would have all been better off for it. instead he chose the opposite.



Tom C

[OrthoParameter]

Hi Tom and Ortho,

Could you please tell me if the kit has demonstrated any or all of these claims as offered/written by Erfinder?

"The kit will enable one to perform all of the tests that I did to get the effects that I demonstrate in the early videos, some of which folks are familiar with and some not. To name a few:

supply back charging
recovery
understanding how to see the device as an LC
comprehending the phase shift mechanism as it applies to induced potential
comprehending the phase shift mechanism as it applies to induced current
the separation of motor and generator action so as to utilize the generator action" Text taken from a personal email from Erfinder to myself On 2014-06-13.

Thank you,
Dave Wing

Hi Dave,
From my time with the machine, I found that almost all of the claims were based on misinterpretations. I do sincerely think he believes what he says. The problem for me, was, as Tom said, a lack of communication skills. Whether that was intentional I can't say and I wish not to judge, but I will say that he used terminology in ways that do not match what I know the terminology actually meant. It was a confusing experience but the dialog degraded in such a manner that I knew I would never be allowed to "be on the same page."

Any conductor has inductance and capacitance so yeah it is an LC circuit but only in the normal sense. He saw the pulse that came from turning off the PWM as coming from a capacitor which I think he believes lives at the junction between the windings. There is no capacitor-like back charging pulse. Were it so you might see it as a faint spike on the scope perhaps, but it would happen in about ten nanoseconds.

What he calls a phase shift on advancing the timing is nothing more than the equivalent of moving the brushes to move back into the sweet spot of the armature action warping of the field.

When I asked for proof of his claims or disagreed with his magical unicorn theories he would become angry.

He told me that he would give the wiring diagram for the two transformers that made up the mag-amp, but I "had to see what he saw first". That was never going to happen so....... here we are today.

The last thing he showed me was the same machine but with a second set of coils overlapping the first set and shifted to where the center of the coils were over the junction of the first set. The magnetic collapse of the motor pulse would also induce into the that second set used as a generator. He talked some nonsense about continuing this ad infinitum and seemed to not understand that you can't recover everything due to transformer action. It is my opinion that he sees magic unicorns in everything he builds. I actually feel sorry for him now that the experience is over.

I hope you will accept my personal and sincere apology for getting nasty with you.

Ortho

[Dave Wing]

Hi Tom and Ortho,


Thank you for the replies and the insight into your views on the machine.


As you all know, I just like many others have spent countless hours looking into Erfinder's posts and videos. That said I believe he has disclosed enough for me to realize that the motor kit, that was initially offered was the first part of a working unit that allowed us to study the operation and workings of this type of motor. As progression was made an additionional part called the reactor was to be incorporated sometime in the future. Fair enough?


Secondly we all know JB himself is not a very good comunicator, no insult intended, and has not disclosed all of his life's long work to the world in its entirety. JB appears to disclose only what he wants to and on his timeline yet he is, for the most part not ridiculed for his methods, at least not here on this forum. Remember it has taken many years to get the SG Manuals...which are the workings of that machine. I personally have no issues with the way John does things... It is his invention and or inventions so we remain non-critical of him and he is free to choose his way of revealing the information as he sees fit. I will admit of course I would like to see all in open disclosure... Who wouldn't?


Why potentially suppress a matter without hearing all the facts being presented first... by admission none of us have anything more than a limited understanding, and part of a machine. With all the above these points in hand I do not think Steve should have been banned or ridiculed for his style of information delivery. If Steve so chooses to post on this forum then why not let him continue? The choice should be his...


So how about it... let us move onward to discovering the full truth?


-Dave Wing


P.S. Tom in light of further research do you want to sell the kit to me?

[min2oly]

Many magic tricks indeed Tom...

Bringing John into this... really. This is a false comparison.
I thought you, I mean Steve, had his own forum let him post there. That is the choice that is his. Any "truth" seekers can follow.
KR,
Patrick

Hi Tom and Ortho,


Thank you for the replies and the insight into your views on the machine.


As you all know, I just like many others have spent countless hours looking into Erfinder's posts and videos. That said I believe he has disclosed enough for me to realize that the motor kit, that was initially offered was the first part of a working unit that allowed us to study the operation and workings of this type of motor. As progression was made an additionional part called the reactor was to be incorporated sometime in the future. Fair enough?


Secondly we all know JB himself is not a very good comunicator, no insult intended, and has not disclosed all of his life's long work to the world in its entirety. JB appears to disclose only what he wants to and on his timeline yet he is, for the most part not ridiculed for his methods, at least not here on this forum. Remember it has taken many years to get the SG Manuals...which are the workings of that machine. I personally have no issues with the way John does things... It is his invention and or inventions so we remain non-critical of him and he is free to choose his way of revealing the information as he sees fit. I will admit of course I would like to see all in open disclosure... Who wouldn't?


Why potentially suppress a matter without hearing all the facts being presented first... by admission none of us have anything more than a limited understanding, and part of a machine. With all the above these points in hand I do not think Steve should have been banned or ridiculed for his style of information delivery. If Steve so chooses to post on this forum then why not let him continue? The choice should be his...


So how about it... let us move onward to discovering the full truth?


-Dave Wing


P.S. Tom in light of further research do you want to sell the kit to me?

[AlvaroHN]

I think JB have disclosed a lot!

More than anyone.

And is because somehow I ended up on his icehose website years ago that now I know what I know.

Tnx John Bedini.

Best

Alvaro

[Tom C]

Dave,

I appreciate how hard you have worked in all of this, it is way more than he deserves. all I asked him to do was to get an agreement to sell. I told him over private email, and conversations with him, that that was all I was asking. I even left him alone on his section of THIS forum, then he popped over to another section where he spazzed out on some of his theories.... I would think that we can all take the word of a man who purchased the motor and spent 2 years and thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours running the machine.. Dave I will do better than sell it to you, I will describe, measure diagram and release the entire thing here for everyone to see. then you can build your own and try and replicate. which is all we wanted in the first place. hate to state the obvious but I don't think we will ever know what the "reactor" will ever be, because he was not going to release it to anyone except those that kissed his rear end for a few years and paid 2500 dollars for a machine.


you can build a mock up of this thing in an evening. I want to make a window motor out of it.

Tom C