Shorting the gen coil with PWM? .. and other things.

[bigmotherwhale]

Thanks RS_ good circuits there

[Bradley Malone]

Can someone point me to a good description of the coil shorting idea. I have been looking around and see people talking about it but i just can't get my head around how you get anything from a shorted coil. Or are they shorting a coil to cause an effect in another coil?

[bigmotherwhale]

when the coil is shorted for a brief instant, the smallest duration and lowest resistance you can achieve and then unloaded, it creates a buck boost effect and an oscillation similar to the spikes that you normally collect off the coil switch on or off , you can then collect this with a FWBR and capacitor.
maybe someone else could describe it better.

[Bradley Malone]

So is it basically giving the coil its own energy to trigger a radiant spike then before the flow un-short it again and harvest...is that what your saying? give it a path to discharge then catch the discharge somewhere else.

couldn't you do that with a coil that has...say 5v running through it at all times and just constantly short "collect"...and so on.

[Bradley Malone]

if all they are trying to do is make back -emf spikes check this out. http://youtu.be/DTnqhwmJUHs

[RS_]

Bradley

when you have a magnet on a rotor passing a genny coil that is hooked through a FWBR to a cap or other closed loop circuit, as the magnet passes, it creates a voltage in the coil that makes current flow to fill up the cap to the max voltage that the coil and passing magnet can produce, and this creates a drag on the rotor and prime mover as per standard electrical rules....

If the coil is un hooked (open) as the magnet passes, the voltage peak is still produced in the coil, but no current flows and there is no drag on the rotor and prime mover...

So, if the coil is open until the voltage peak's, there is no drag up to that point, then if you short the coil across it's self, right on top of the voltage peak just after Top dead center, current will flow in the closed loop coil making a electromagnet that now pushes the rotor magnet forward, then when you open the coil circuit again, it rings at a really high voltage oscillation, that the cap then fills up to, that is 2 times or more higher than the peak voltage that the magnet and coil can produce by them self's in a normal closed loop system.

Then if you short the coil 5 times during the magnet pass voltage peak, and do the 2nd short while the first ring is at it's highest peak voltage, then when you turn off the short, that resulting ring is many many times the voltage of the first ring, and the cap fills up to an even higher voltage (ringing the ring) , then you short the 2nd ring for even higher voltage, then the the 3rd, 4th and 5th, ringing the rings, fills up the cap even more.... all this with out normal drag, and done right, the coils magnetic field is pushing on the rotor magnet, increasing the speed of the rotor/prime mover in the output swing, and filling up the cap to many, many times the voltage that just a magnet and coil can produce by them self's, and with out the normal drag they produce in a normal closed loop circuit....and during the rest of the output swing's down hill part of the wave form after the peak and the 5 shorting times, the coil is open and not producing drag during this part of the wave form ether....

[AlvaroHN]

So is it basically giving the coil its own energy to trigger a radiant spike then before the flow un-short it again and harvest...is that what your saying? give it a path to discharge then catch the discharge somewhere else.

couldn't you do that with a coil that has...say 5v running through it at all times and just constantly short "collect"...and so on.

The other thing about coil shorting is that it have an efect on the normal drag of a generator coil. So if you have a regular sg you could add gen coils in shorting mode to fill caps with no load on the rotor... and use the energy on those caps to do what ever you want.

Best

Alvaro Hernandorena

[Bradley Malone]

so, if the coil is open until the voltage peak's there is no drag up to that point, then if you short the coil right on top of the voltage peak just after Top dead center, current will flow making a magnet that now pushes the rotor magnet,

I got most of that except this part. in a normal generator after the magnet passes center it induces a voltage that when use will drag the motor not push it. I get the idea of taking the drag away and let the field build then drop...back emf without the "back". so the coil builds to a voltage then you release it to a cap. Is it the release right after dead center that releases the voltage before the magnet has a chance to flip it on the outswing? This sounds very interesing because it is one of the things i was going to try on my machine in the kromrey bedini thread. I had not heard of the harmonic pulsing but i think resonance in all of the parts of the machine are necessary for free energy...mechanical and electrical.



*EDIT: if the coil creates the voltage that you use to push on the outswing do you even need a battery to run this?

[RS_]

*EDIT: if the coil creates the voltage that you use to push on the out swing do you even need a battery to run this?

no, so long as you already have rotation, with a magnet producing a voltage in a open coil, and shorting the coil at peak after TDC, then the out swing magnetic pulse/push during the coil short is free... because the coil/magnet motion produced it's own energy that you used to push the magnet foreword during the short..... then you collect the oscillations that the short produces upon turnoff, or you short the coil again on a peak of the oscillation thus pushing the rotor magnet harder with a 2nd higher voltage peak short of the coil than the first short produced, etc, etc.....

[AlvaroHN]

I got most of that except this part. in a normal generator after the magnet passes center it induces a voltage that when use will drag the motor not push it. I get the idea of taking the drag away and let the field build then drop...back emf without the "back". so the coil builds to a voltage then you release it to a cap. Is it the release right after dead center that releases the voltage before the magnet has a chance to flip it on the outswing? This sounds very interesing because it is one of the things i was going to try on my machine in the kromrey bedini thread. I had not heard of the harmonic pulsing but i think resonance in all of the parts of the machine are necessary for free energy...mechanical and electrical.



*EDIT: if the coil creates the voltage that you use to push on the outswing do you even need a battery to run this?

I think that in normal generator coil (no shorting) the drag is also before the magnet aligns with the coil. Correct me if I am wrong but this is how I see it: the lenz law says that the induced energy in a coil by a passing magnet will create a magnetic field that will oppose the magnetic field that induced it. So we have a coil and an aproching north pole of a magnet, as the magnet gets closer to the coil energy is induced in the coil with a magnetic field that opposes the north pole of the magnet, so the coil will create a north pole facing the magnet, now when the magnet gets closer to be aligned with the coil, that north up (of the coil) will start to flip to a south pole up, because when the magnet passes the center the north pole of the coil would push the magnet, so it flips to south and create more drag. That will create a sine wave in the voltage as the magnet passes by. But I think that shorting the coil in the positive and negative peeks produces a radiant spark that we can colect and maybe (like in ssg) the coil shorting reverse the coil for a moment? Eliminating lenz law drag.

[AlvaroHN]

Today I entered a electronics chat to ask some doubs about basic thigs, and I got ridiculizated by sceptics. I didn't want to bother this forum with basic electronics questions but I have no other choice.

I want to short a gen coil with PWM, I downloaded an android app that makes PWM with the earphone jack, and pluged it to an opto, but the opto would run, the phone pwm output is 0.4 volts.

So I tried to conect the phone PWM output (0,4 volts) to a small pnp transistor that would activate the opto (I want to place an opto to protect my phone).

But I couln't get it to work, what is the right way to make that circuit ?

maybe the 0,4 volts can't turn the transistor on?

if it can't what else can I do?, I was thinking, a joule thief of a bedini earth light circuit, that light leds from low voltage, would one of those circuits activate an opto? if so, I could pwm the opto with a joulethief???

thank you

[Bradley Malone]

Honestly you probably way better of trying to build a 555 circuit. it may take i little more but once you have it its there anytime you need it. I just see something frying your phone...with that said do you know what the voltage is of the led side of the opto. I mean all lead's have a rated voltage to turn on ...do you know the opto's rated voltage.

I have been running this through my head for a few days and have a question. 1 am i correct in the understanding that if done correctly there is no drag or extra force added to a rotor when a coil is added this way. 2 when the magnet gets to the coil and you short the coil it causes a pulse that pushes away the magnet (as previously stated by someone) but then they said that there would be more pulses...if the short causes the magnet to go away then you disconect would it be the back emf when you disconect that you are pulsing again at the peak? Is it some kind of oscilation in the coil itself that you keep going by shorting and opening the coil at the proper time?

[AlvaroHN]

I will try a 555 Bradley, do you have some 555 pwm circuit link for me to replicate?

there is a video about coil shorting that I like --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxh3XnU8lko

In my experiments I see a clear voltage gain in the charging capacitor when I short the coil using a reed switch. I am waiting for a laser tacometer to arrive from china, and also a hand oscilloscope. to make proper tests.

[AlvaroHN]

didn't anwser about my opto, this is the datasheet http://www.vishay.com/docs/83725/4n25.pdf

I am learning to read datasheets, could it be 5 volts?

[RS_]

Alvaro,
the circuits i posted on here, focused on the coil shorting circuit lay out in a Pro Sch that every eng. can look at and understand vs the Konehead component drawings... I did not focus on the timing part of the circuit

this page shows a simple coil short circuit that only shorts 1 time per peak, and shows a scope shot of that peak short and the ringing that turning off the short produces....
https://sites.google.com/site/altern...ing-coils-more

this page shows a 555 timer IC based muilty pulse per peak circuit,
it also shows another muilty pulse per peak circuit based on other types of timer IC's
https://sites.google.com/site/altern...rting-circuits

The problem with the 555 timer circuits, is they cant track changes in RPM, and thus cant ramp up to operation speed that they are tuned to, nor can they adapt to changing operation speeds once tuned to a given RPM, (they can do tracking if a lot of other circuitry is added)

I think that the 2nd circuit by RHP can ramp up to speed and adapt to changing speeds, but i have never built this circuit so i dont really know.....

If you join the EVGray Yahoo group and look in the files section, there are many other muilty pulse per peak circuits. and Konehead and the ppl on that fourm will answer your questions, or point you to posts where your questions are already answered

Bradley, the 2nd pulse is on top of the first highest peak of the oscillation that opening the short creates, helps to push again, not cause back emf drag.....read the EVGray fourms for more info from Konehead and many others that are doing this for a better understanding of this subject