Open discussion about Walter Russells generator

[Bradley Malone]

I just wanted to start this thread to have a place to discuss Walter Russells dynamo and how it could work. There are very few details strewn throughout the internet and a few pictures that I have gathered information from. Along with reading his home study course and all the other books I am getting a bigger and bigger picture of the way he said he designed it.

I took one of the drawings and made a sketchup file. I took the outline of the oblated sperical rotor from the bottom, and copied the outline. then used the magic of sketchup to make it 3D. Keep in mind that I do not quite understand if the two opposing spirals above the rotor on the drawing are what the actual rotor looks like or if the spirals are just a representation of some flow in the two sides. But going with the description of it being a sphere with an oblate equator that is tilted from its rotational axis...what i came up with looks right to me.

Once i had it designed...knowing that magnetism always tries to find the center of the mass its flowing through I drew a line from center point to center point of all of the circles that successivly make up the rotor. Because of the oblated design the magnetism forms a sort of wave as seen in the wireframe snapshot. If I then copy that "wave" or magnetic path and rotate it around the axis the rotor would rotate it forms the shape of a vortex...just as he says.

[Bradley Malone]

The thing that has stumped me about this machine is firstly, how would the rotation be caused? from understanding russells work a little he says that the spin is to "spin apart" what is accumulated. I have seen a few people replicate russells coils but they always seem to put north towards south. in russells design to "create matter" or heat he pushes north towards north to "compress" cold into heat. Assuming that this would cause the rotor to heat up and discharging that heat is what causes the spin....thinking out loud here...if you used the form of electric people have sometimes called cold electricity would that not cause the effects russell speaks of. I have thought for a long time that if you want something to output extra energy will spinning it would have to be the use of the energy that causes the spin. In a modern generator we create a voltage by spinning somthing then use that voltage while slowing the spin. In my head it sounds more along the lines of what we are looking for is to have a generator then when energy is used ...causes the spin. Walter stresses in a few papers that action and reaction happen simultaneously. I think we must create (EDIT) BY using, not create then use.

so the question is how to get the cold electricity...well that should come with the design. The notes in the drawing refer to inductor wiring inside the commutator. and there are also brushes for "reversing current" that are on a ring of contacts on the periphery of each rotor half . Since the rotor is actually two steel halves with one of them having its mass mostly towards one side and the other half would have its least mass side parallel to it. So even though it would be balanced as a whole. Each side of the rotor by itself would have a large centrifugal force towards its high mass side. The kromrey converter seems to use centrifugal force along with the magnetism to create this electricity. So if the brushes on the "shaft ring sections" could cause a voltage using that energy could be the cause for it to spin.

[Bradley Malone]

along with that we have the notes about puting coils "inside" the comutator. Because of the design I am assuming that the brushes would remain stationary and the commutator carrying the inductors would be spinning with the rotor. could this centrifugal force create energy in these coils? I think of it like this...a figure skater that pulls in her arms ...spins faster. so if we use energy created from cintrifugal force then wouldn't the back-emf pull the arms back in (if electrons are shoved towards the end then we use voltage created by that wouldn't it push the electron back towards the middle causing an increase in speed!? has anyone ever spun a coil with no magnetism near it and see if it creates voltage just from spinning....think thats my next project.

[Bradley Malone]

had to split it all up so I could post it

[Bradley Malone]

I also read somewhere that a faraday generator causes a voltage from the shaft to the edge even if the magnet is not "passing" the disc. The first expiriment spun a solid disc inside of a stationary magnetic field creating a voltage. Further expiriments showed that the magnet could be carried on the disc and it would still create a voltage. So magnetic flow when subjected to cetrigugal force creates voltage.

[Bradley Malone]

I think I may have just came to and understanding of the coils in the comutator. If you notice in the first picture there is a gap in the comutator between the "shaft comutator rings" and the brushes further out. The thought I am having is...if you had a coil that is wound, lets say, counter clockwise from the center out and you spun the whole coil around its own center in a clockwise way ,assuming that the positive electric charge has mass and the negative is vacuum (Walter Russells cosmogony) then the centrifugal force would force the mass to the outide and vacuum to the inside and because of the way the coil is wound that would cause a voltage from the outside wire to the inside wire. So...It could be the case that the brushes on the "shaft commutator" could use voltage from a coil inside the commutator (hence the gap). Also if this does indeed create cold electricity and the armature is supposed to create heat from the north north compression, then running the cold electricity into the centrifugally mass charged armature halves could be the give for re-giving balance that keeps it running...then you have the extra coils in the commutator that you could pull energy from. Since they would opperate on the centrifugal charge idea they would cause more speed in the gen the more power is used (the figure skater idea). The charge would be shoved back towards the center.

[ckurtz]

I also read somewhere that a faraday generator causes a voltage from the shaft to the edge even if the magnet is not "passing" the disc. The first expiriment spun a solid disc inside of a stationary magnetic field creating a voltage. Further expiriments showed that the magnet could be carried on the disc and it would still create a voltage. So magnetic flow when subjected to cetrigugal force creates voltage.

Faraday's first experiments just used the Earth's magnetic field. Most totally ignore the fact that magnets used with a Faraday Disc Generator/Motor can rotate with the disc or be stationary relative to the disc. This simple fact tells a lot about the relationship of the electrical, magnetic, and vector orthogonal forces, but unlike you, few bother to think about it. Am not sure if it is your massive positive charge carriers that are being centrifugally spun outward, or if it is actually the free (my non-massless) electrons which are being spun radially out of position creating the electrical current, but in either case at least you realize something along these lines is going on. It seems to me that this simple concept should point the way to brushless generators and motors, but that would get off topic and since I am not familiar with Russell's generator I'm not able to directly comment on it.

[Bradley Malone]

Thanks for the input, actually i said that wrong...i don't believe anything has mass. Walter basically says "mass" or matter is crompressed motion and space is decompressed motion. but either way the idea stands...a compression and a vacuum exchange and thats what I call electricity. so it would compress towards the outside and evacuate the inside. They are all just descriptions of the same effect with different names or beliefs in "exactly" what is happening down there . Again, thanks for the input.

Any way you look at it if we can find a way to use a centrifugal force to create a voltage then the reactive force (witch would push the pressure back into the vacuum) would increase the speed of the rotor. I have been looking for a while for an "action" that would create a "re-action" that would enforce the "action". using a centrifugal force to create a voltage that would create a centripetal force sounds pretty dag on right to me! in whatever way we figure out how to do it.

[Bradley Malone]

Just tried something...I figured if you could carry the magnets with a faraday disc why not just use the magnet as the disc .I have a neo magnet that I spun on the north south axis so there were no poles flipping....spinning like earth. when I would speed it up using my dremel then measure voltage from the center to the edge of the magnet it read about 10 milivolts dc when the magnt is spinning only about 100rpm. and it also put out 10 microamps dc witch is not much but given that it is electric derived from centrifugal force...I'm happy!

Also, when you increase the speed the voltage stays at 10milivolts but the current increases, at 400 rpm it is 50 uamps.
one last thing. This only works when the magnet spins on its north south axis. and the center is positive... outside is negative.

[ckurtz]

.. why not just use the magnet as the disc .

Magnetic materials, especially the exotic ones, are generally poor electrical conductors; plus, running current through permanent magnets tends to demagnetize them.

One of the so called conundrums of a Faraday disc generator is that if the conductive disc is stationary and the magnets are revolved around the axis no electricity is produced. That lends support to your ideas of the part played by centrifugal forces; as does the fact that Faraday disc generators are noted for low voltage high amperage output - amperage being associated with internal electrical forces while voltage is associated more with surface phenomena. Spinning a mass tends to cause the mass to expand radially which in the case of a Faraday disc would be radial movement perpendicular to a magnetic field thus inducing an electric current. This radial movement would seem to create your area of 'decompression' at the center and 'compression' at the rim. Mechanical systems being what they are, there doesn't seem any obvious way to achieve your desired centripetal compression and decompression movement via just mechanically spinning a solid: i.e. a Tesla disc turbine still has centrifugal forces acting on the discs even while the fluid is undergoing centripetal motion.

However, if you used electro-magnets you could pulse them to turn the current on and off while the disc spins. This would create a pulsed electrical current which would more or less create an alternating centrifugal to centripetal movement of charge carriers. Am not sure that is what you are after or if it would even apply to Russell's device, but it does demonstrate there are various ways of looking at the subject.

[Bradley Malone]

the fact that Faraday disc generators are noted for low voltage high amperage output - amperage being associated with internal electrical forces while voltage is associated more with surface phenomena.

But! if you think about it a copper mass is like a 1 turn coil. To my knowledge I have never seen anyone make a faraday generator with a pancake coil instead of a solid mass. I am thinking it could increase the voltage and given the already high current....might be something. I am in the process of building a few things to test these principles. i'll post when i have info.

[ckurtz]

But! if you think about it a copper mass is like a 1 turn coil. To my knowledge I have never seen anyone make a faraday generator with a pancake coil instead of a solid mass. I am thinking it could increase the voltage and given the already high current....might be something. I am in the process of building a few things to test these principles. i'll post when i have info.

Or, maybe try concentric grooves, which would be great if you have a cnc router set up.

[Bradley Malone]

Hmmm. Interesting! I'll try my coil idea now because it is in my inventory to do so but i do have a few machinest friends so that will also be a future test. It took me a second to understand what you meant but if i am correct you mean instead of a coil consecutive rings connected as if it were a solid mass would polarize each ring as if it were the whole...therfore adding the voltage like stacking batteries instead of using a coil..is that on track with what you mean. Thanks again.

[ckurtz]

.. you mean instead of a coil consecutive rings connected as if it were a solid mass would polarize each ring as if it were the whole...therfore adding the voltage like stacking batteries instead of using a coil.

Yes. I wrote 'grooves' as I was thinking about a cnc router, but meant raised rings instead, which is what the 3D image shows.

Voltage is additive in series and it seems there is evidence that the voltage rise in a Tesla coil can be traced to the additive function of a series of insulated windings which are what coils are in a sense. It also helps provide a rather straight forward explanation for the apparent superluminal speed of electricity through a coil that Eric has demonstrated in several videos and talks.

Years ago a guy patented a method of forming (by stamping I believe) electrical circuits in sheets of conductive material, such as copper, which worked due to the tendency of electricity to flow along the surface of the conductor. He developed cylindrical circuit forms and other shapes.

I have no idea what the specifications would be to form a working voltage rise pattern on a Faraday disc, e.g. how high or how close the rings would have to be - or if it would even work, as this was one thought experiment among many I played around with years ago. Be interesting to see what you can come up with.

[Bradley Malone]

Thanks for the encouragement ...The plan at the moment is I am going to make a pancake coil and use brushes so that I can spin the coil with and without a magnet and see what kind of voltage and curretn I would be looking at. If it does make decent current I am going to try to set someting up to measure the short/open/load speeds to see if the centrifugal-centripetal idea stands and it speeds up when producing electrical power.