Using a Hall sensor

[JulesP]

Can anyone direct me to someone who has experience of using a Hall sensor in place of the conventional trigger circuit in a Bedini style generator?

Thank you

Jules

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Jules,

I have an SSG with hall triggering instead of the conventional trigger. How can I help you?

Here's a link to a recent posting of it. I also have several older postings of it in other threads. http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post29175

P.S. ----Here's a link to an old thread on the subject. http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ead.php?t=1927

[JulesP]

Using a Hall Sensor

Hi Gary,

I have been building a generator using Bedini principles that uses 5 coils and a circuit as laid out in the attached 'Generator Circuit' image. When I had completed the build I found that there was insufficient voltage generated in the trigger circuit to activate the transistor and so I decided to change to a Hall Sensor based trigger circuit as shown in the 'Revised 'Hall' Circuit' pic. In conjunction with a MOSFET this makes it much easier to trigger the main flow of current in the coils from the battery.

However, I have found that with the Hall sensor positioned in front of the 'litzed' wound coil (see 'Coil Arrangement' pic) it triggers in such a way that the main current is switched on in all 5 coils at the same time well before one of the rotor magnets reaches alignment with the relevant coil core. My rotor comes to a stop in a few seconds.

Unlike the Bedini system, where the main current is activated just after the peak magnetisation of the core so as to produce a magnetic polarity that opposes the rotor magnet which pushes it on its way and adding to its momentum, in the Hall system as I have it there is no sudden reversal of the core's magnetic polarity but a constant polarity from the time the current is on till it switches off, maybe 10 degrees of rotation after alignment.

This being so I can't see how using a Hall sensor trigger will get the rotor to keep going and yet I have heard that this is the more modern way of building and operating this type of unit.

Perhaps another process is at work driving the rotor forward or one has to position the sensor in a different position so that the attraction of the rotor magnet to the core can occur first before the coil currents are switched on.

I would appreciate your thoughts and the benefit of your experience.

Thank you

Jules

[JulesP]

Thanks Gary. I had put together a detailed reply with 5 images but it says its gone off to moderation. From my experience they never come back from that and never get on the forum. If it doesn't then I may be able to send text but clearly adding pictures causes a problem. I will keep trying . . .

Jules

[JulesP]

Hi Gary,

I have been building a generator using Bedini principles that uses 5 coils and a circuit as laid out in the attached 'Generator Circuit' image. When I had completed the build I found that there was insufficient voltage generated in the trigger circuit to activate the transistor and so I decided to change to a Hall Sensor based trigger circuit as shown in the 'Revised 'Hall' Circuit' pic. In conjunction with a MOSFET this makes it much easier to trigger the main flow of current in the coils from the battery.

However, I have found that with the Hall sensor positioned in front of the 'litzed' wound coil (see 'Coil Arrangement' pic) it triggers in such a way that the main current is switched on in all 5 coils at the same time well before one of the rotor magnets reaches alignment with the relevant coil core. My rotor comes to a stop in a few seconds.

Unlike the Bedini system, where the main current is activated just after the peak magnetisation of the core so as to produce a magnetic polarity that opposes the rotor magnet which pushes it on its way and adding to its momentum, in the Hall system as I have it there is no sudden reversal of the core's magnetic polarity but a constant polarity from the time the current is on till it switches off, maybe 10 degrees of rotation after alignment.

This being so I can't see how using a Hall sensor trigger will get the rotor to keep going and yet I have heard that this is the more modern way of building and operating this type of unit.

Perhaps another process is at work driving the rotor forward or one has to position the sensor in a different position so that the attraction of the rotor magnet to the core can occur first before the coil currents are switched on.

I would appreciate your thoughts and the benefit of your experience.

Thank you

Jules

PS Pictures not added as it then goes to moderation and doesn't post but they can be viewed at this address: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0y15dybr5...n2q6QhHCa?dl=0

[Faraday88]

Thanks Gary. I had put together a detailed reply with 5 images but it says its gone off to moderation. From my experience they never come back from that and never get on the forum. If it doesn't then I may be able to send text but clearly adding pictures causes a problem. I will keep trying . . .

Jules

Hi Jules,

Opto/Hall switched SSG is not a Radiant charging the batteries..just watch the way it charges and drains your primary, you can use this method to 'Short coils' that have an Induced Voltage in it and then harness that reaction Spike through a FWBR.. just my few cents for the knowledge.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[JulesP]

Hi Faraday88,

So are you saying that a SSG with a Hall sensor is not capable of a COP>1? It seems others are able to do so but from what you say they are harnessing the benefits of the transient in a different way to how Bedini originally specified?

Jules

[John_Koorn]

Hi Jules,

Opto/Hall switched SSG is not a Radiant charging the batteries..just watch the way it charges and drains your primary, you can use this method to 'Short coils' that have an Induced Voltage in it and then harness that reaction Spike through a FWBR.. just my few cents for the knowledge.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

Faraday, you should know by now not to comment on stuff you don't understand.

Hi Jules, there is nothing wrong with opto or hall switching and it WILL radiantly charge your batteries - if done correctly. Ignore Faraday's post.

However, looking at your updated diagram "Revised Hall Circuit" - that is not the way to do it. The Bedini SSG is not a self-running machine. You can't feed the output back into the input battery in the way you have drawn it.

Using a FET to do the switching is also not the best method. FETs are great for switching low voltage and high current devices, such as capacitor dump circuits but for the Bedini SSG the BJT is better.

I'd strongly suggest using a transistor, such as the MJL21194 to switch a bifilar coil first as John Bedini designed it. That is also the standard 2 battery system.

Once you understand how the basic Bedini SSG works, you can then try hall or opto switching, but to be honest with you I have found the inductively triggered version the most effective - mainly because the timing does not need any adjustment - whereas with hall switching you have to be very precise on the hall placement in relation to the magnets.

Hope this helps...

John K.

[Faraday88]

Hi Faraday88,

So are you saying that a SSG with a Hall sensor is not capable of a COP>1? It seems others are able to do so but from what you say they are harnessing the benefits of the transient in a different way to how Bedini originally specified?

Jules

Hi Jules,
Sadly sincerity no longer stays here so no point in being truthful ! and over and above sarcasm and outright disrespect/ slander is all that people have here to offer.
My only advice is to know things by your self and tinker by your self... then and only then you would know the truth behind what you are seeking.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[JulesP]

Hi John,

Thanks for the feedback.

The device I am building, while it is not an SG or SSG, is based on many of the Bedini energizer operating principles. The person in South Africa who designed this particular configuration had had it working well and started with the regular inductive trigger but then switched to a Hall sensor system. I was happy to go with the former until I found that the current in my trigger coil was so small as to be ineffective at triggering the main circuit. However, having built the Hall sensor version, while I am getting the main coil currents to come on, the rotor is not keeping moving. I reason this is because it switches on well before the magnet aligns with the core and continues to well after so I end up with a 'no net torque' situation and cogging. I can see that in either repulsion or atraction mode the Hall circuit needs to be switched off much earlier but don't see that mechanism in the circuit at the moment. I'm waiting for the 'developer' to feedback how his rotor keeps moving in terms of forces.

I have only used a MOSFET in conjunction with the Hall sensor and at the moment am at a cross roads as to how to modify the design to get it working. I tried in response to Gary Hammond to post a full reply with pics but it 'went to moderation' and yet you seem to have seen one or more of the circuit diagrams. It's still not showing on the forum so are you in the moderation team?

I appreciate that the device I am working with is not a pure Bedini system but as I'm sure he would agree that exploring other and related ideas is a good thing, especially if in the end it builds a groundswell of practical data about accessing energy from the 'environment'.

[John_Koorn]

Hi Jules,

I've used MOSFETs to do the switching in the past, but while they "worked" I found the MJL21194 much better.

I agree, you'll never get the inductive trigger to fire a MOSFET, as they need at least 12V on the gate. You can get the MOSFET to work as I did, by using the inductive trigger to bias a small BJT which can then be used to switch the MOSFET.

As for the hall, you may be using the wrong type - depending on the orientation of your magnets. If your magnets are North out and you're using a "south triggering" hall it probably won't worj as you expect. On the other hand your problem could be that the hall sensor is not placed correctly and needs adjustment.

John K.

[JulesP]

Hi John,

Thanks for the suggestions.

I wasn’t using the inductive triggering with a FET but with a T13009 but I was only getting about 20uA in the trigger winding which was not enough to activate the tranny. That’s when I rebuilt for a Hall sensor and MOSFET.

Since then, while I am getting very clear and effective triggering and all the coils are coming on together (with a total of about 7.5 amps), they are on from when the rotor magnet is about 10 degrees before TDC with the sensor (to use the piston analogy) to around 10 degrees after. If ‘attraction’ mode is being sought they would need to switch off around TDC for the rotor to make it past each coil core.

If it’s just a matter of moving the sensor sideways a bit in the direction of the rotor’s approach then I would need some fine control on positioning. Otherwise perhaps some electronic method of controlling the Hall sensor’s ‘on’ time.

If you have used a Hall sensor in your own devices how have you managed to get it to switch off around TDC (alignment) so that the device can run in ‘attraction’ mode? Or the converse if in ‘repulsion’ mode?

Regards

Jules

[John_Koorn]

Hi Jules,

One method I used was to control the dwell time (keeping with the auto reference) with a simple 555 timer circuit in monostable mode. This worked very well when using a potentiometer to adjust the "on" time.

John K.

[energialibre]

Hola amigo aqui te paso un circuito de atraccion y repulsion monopolo con transistor y sensor hall para activar el transistor. Si quieres puedes hacerlo solo de repusion y cuando tengas mas experiencia pones el otro sensor hall para completar el circuito y que sea un motor-generador de atraccion y repulsion. Un abrazo

[JulesP]

Gracias por su sugerencia. Como entiendo que el modo 'Atracción' es más eficiente, ¿puedo usar o modificar el circuito que ha demostrado que se ejecuta en ese modo? Como mi circuito es un derivado de los circuitos tipo Bedini y no un SG, y también solo usa una batería (que se muestra en la imagen 'BEMF Circuit 2' en: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0y15dybr5...mn2q6QhHCa?dl= 0) ¿Puedo
lograr eso con solo un sensor Hall?