Dietmar Hohl: http://www.magnetmotor.at

[ZPDM]

This site is worth reading and learning from and if it is okay to generalize positively "THREE CHEERS for German(in this case Austrian) Engineering! More on all that in a moment, All I'll say for now is I plan to back-up portions of this website tonight.

So I wanted to dip my toe in the field of magnetic motors because well it is inescapable from the Bedini SSG and magnetic pendulum clocks that magnets can if fact do work, a few interesting videos I'd stumbled across and the reported replication and explanation of the Steorn motor by J.L. Naudin over in France. I had heard of Howard Johnson however for some reason I had gotten the impression (Peswiki perhaps) that he was some dotard who randomly threw magnets around on a ring and thought he had something he didn't have.

So the site is in German, however a run through a translator allows one to get a clear gist of what is going on. It is a build log of Dietmar's efforts with magnetic motors. It is notable however for its completeness, precision engineering and documentation. It provides a theoretical framework going back to the ground-breaking work of Howard Johnson, his magnetic vortices and his precision mapping of magnetic fields. From there (ignoring the earlier V-gate efforts -haven't looked at any of that yet) it provides a series of incremental steps chronicled in videos of efforts both in linear and circular arrangements. Again the measurements and attention to detail are wonderful. He had the excellent idea of using a force meter to measure the force on the moving magnet at each point as it progresses through the stator. This provided a means of measuring progress -which sometimes apparently involved some trial and error. These figures are also sometimes presented as graphs. He also provides what I believe are computer simulations of what is going on with the magnetic fields though possibly they are measurements, don't know. Finally he provides what he terms "sketches" of the set-up, these are more accurately described as mechanical engineering drafts. They provide every dimension, every angle, every orientation of the magnets, where shielding is employed, magnet type and strength and even magnet supplier. And again each of numerous incremental iterations has data on the force experienced by the moving magnet in relation to the stator.

Going through his progress in one night felt a bit like watching a sci-fi story come to life. This has all occurred over the span of about 4 or 5 years and if it is to be believed he has gone from nothing to most recently machines a bit over a meter in diameter providing multi-kilowatt levels of power. I can't vouch for the validity of any of this, I have no experimental results of my own at this point to offer and it all seems shall we say très incroyable,
all I will say is Dietmar provides the theory, documents the process, provides measurements and provides detailed specifications. The prominent citation of Cheniere press also got my attention. Finally, the builds I am referring to are his MDS I, II and III machines. I haven't looked at the rest of his site yet.

Enjoy and thank you Dietmar Hohl!

magnetmotor.at

[Tom C]

This site is worth reading and learning from and if it is okay to generalize positively "THREE CHEERS for German(in this case Austrian) Engineering! More on all that in a moment, All I'll say for now is I plan to back-up portions of this website tonight.

So I wanted to dip my toe in the field of magnetic motors because well it is inescapable from the Bedini SSG and magnetic pendulum clocks that magnets can if fact do work, a few interesting videos I'd stumbled across and the reported replication and explanation of the Steorn motor by J.L. Naudin over in France. I had heard of Howard Johnson however for some reason I had gotten the impression (Peswiki perhaps) that he was some dotard who randomly threw magnets around on a ring and thought he had something he didn't have.

So the site is in German, however a run through a translator allows one to get a clear gist of what is going on. It is a build log of Dietmar's efforts with magnetic motors. It is notable however for its completeness, precision engineering and documentation. It provides a theoretical framework going back to the ground-breaking work of Howard Johnson, his magnetic vortices and his precision mapping of magnetic fields. From there (ignoring the earlier V-gate efforts -haven't looked at any of that yet) it provides a series of incremental steps chronicled in videos of efforts both in linear and circular arrangements. Again the measurements and attention to detail are wonderful. He had the excellent idea of using a force meter to measure the force on the moving magnet at each point as it progresses through the stator. This provided a means of measuring progress -which sometimes apparently involved some trial and error. These figures are also sometimes presented as graphs. He also provides what I believe are computer simulations of what is going on with the magnetic fields though possibly they are measurements, don't know. Finally he provides what he terms "sketches" of the set-up, these are more accurately described as mechanical engineering drafts. They provide every dimension, every angle, every orientation of the magnets, where shielding is employed, magnet type and strength and even magnet supplier. And again each of numerous incremental iterations has data on the force experienced by the moving magnet in relation to the stator.

Going through his progress in one night felt a bit like watching a sci-fi story come to life. This has all occurred over the span of about 4 or 5 years and if it is to be believed he has gone from nothing to most recently machines a bit over a meter in diameter providing multi-kilowatt levels of power. I can't vouch for the validity of any of this, I have no experimental results of my own at this point to offer and it all seems shall we say très incroyable,
all I will say is Dietmar provides the theory, documents the process, provides measurements and provides detailed specifications. The prominent citation of Cheniere press also got my attention. Finally, the builds I am referring to are his MDS I, II and III machines. I haven't looked at the rest of his site yet.

Enjoy and thank you Dietmar Hohl!

magnetmotor.at

Howard was the real thing, numerous patents, your antilock brake system was based on his designs. here is his motor design
Patent US4151431 - Permanent magnet motor - Google Patents
and magnetic propulsion
Patent US5402021 - Magnetic propulsion system - Google Patents
and another
Patent US4877983 - Magnetic force generating method and apparatus - Google Patents

he has lots more related to engines also.....
I have played with the magnetic trains you see in the howard Johnson videos.... all of his info has been compiled and analyzed by JB, and was filmed for an EFTV video, including the last motor he was designing before he passed away. you want to understand magnets and spins he is the guy to go to.

Tom C

[ZPDM]

Thank you Tom,

Been reading those patents, thanks again, and now my impression is Howard is a genius. Its also nice to know I wasn't too far off in left field in being curious about Deitmar's work. In addition, it is a bit Twilight Zone like to note that you linked to an accepted published patent of a free running permanent magnet motor. I also see again especially from those patents that magnetism is indeed a complicated field. What I find so amazing with Howard Johnson's patented work is that there are no moving parts except the rotor. I could see how you could have some asymmetry in a field, use that to say build some angular momentum which might briefly change the orientation of a magnet or some such, but to have all the magnets unchanging and the thing spinning, wow. There is I suppose some asymmetry within the field itself, as Mr. Johnson pointed out with his model of two opposed particle flows.

Can say I did a little bit of balsa wood, super glue type work based from Mr. Hohl's work and while I doubt I have the machine shop resources at home to replicate what he states he's done I was even from this able to notice that things didn't behave the way they should textbook wise. That is to say with all North faces facing each other and offset 30 degrees each, with 3 magnets on the bottom, 9 on the top - once you got one or two of the nine past the sticky spot the rest trained through, it never did this in the opposite direction however. But the thing was symmetrical, there shouldn't have been any directionality to it at all, it was small but definitely there.

So what further to do at a balsa wood level? Originally I was thinking a couple weeks back about where you take say half a rotor and spiral the magnets in. You then use N-S attraction, start at the most distant magnets which start the rotor spinning each closer magnet overcoming the last more distant magnet until you hit the sticky spot (ideally with no magnetic field influence from the original magnets but the angular momentum still present). The problem I see here is that magnetism follows an inverse square law and so the last magnet or two (with the sticking point) will predominate. I never got anywhere with it.

I don't know now if the V-gate goes back to Howard Johnson, but it has occurred to me that the V-gate might not be following that inverse square law. Certainly people seem to have had some success with it. There is a video, if not faked, of someone using the momentum from a V-gate to just lift the stator momentarily out of the sticky point. Permanent Magnet Motor V-gate Re-gauging from Roobert33 - YouTube. That would be some significant angular momentum. I then learned about something called magnetic shielding and that while you can't create a magnetic monopole you can create a path of lower magnetic "reluctance" to shape a field. Could you shield the sticking spot of a V-gate motor? Maybe this video was faked V Gate PM Motor - YouTube but the idea strikes me as worth looking into. Finally, Dietmar Hohl links to a video of George Soukup Der MagnetMotor von George Video by Dietmar - Myspace Video showing some rapidly spinning v-gate motors. Apparently, Mr. Soukup is being called names on the internet, which if anything implies to me that he may be on to something. I just looked at his video a couple hours ago but what struck me is he has more than one magnetic stator pushing on the rotor. That is, in previous examples there was just one set of magnets pushing the wheel and all the rest of the real estate of the wheel doing nothing. You could imagine if you had four, each at say 90 degrees, they might be far enough apart not to interfere with each other magnetically and they would all be pushing in the same direction.

So that's the idea of how I might be able to get somewhere at a balsa wood level, v-gate, shielding, multiple stators. Sorry to ramble but I realized from your response that I wasn't too far off base and was at the right forum, knowing what I do now I am most impressed that you played with Mr. Johnson's toy train set and great to hear that both you and the patent office note the validity of the almost unbelievable stuff he did! Will try and give an update when I've done a bit of building and experimenting. Come what may of it, I hope Mr. Johnson will be pleased looking down from on high.

Paul

[Tom C]

the biggest obstacle in magntic motors is "regauging" the field so it is not at equilibrium. this can be done with a coil, a change in distance at the right spot to allow the rotor to interact with gravity, or shaping the magnetic field, like Howard did with his trains and his rock saw. the perendev motor and other motors will fail eventually because of magnetic decay if they are not allowed to relax, and inhale dipoles. the energy from the magnet which flows out of the quantum state only flows at a certain rate, and that depends upon the material the magnet is made of. if the material is too magnetic it does not like to shed dipoles in the form of energy, not strong enough it it just cannot do any work. there is a certain company the name escapes me now, but they use magnetic armatures as braking mechanisms, like a yo yo a steel worker wears to slow him down when he falls. these actually wear out "magnetically" after about a year of hard use and have to have the magnets replaced. its one of the few times I have seen magnets wear out, apart from old magnets out of Briggs motors.

this is my personal theory on magnetic propulsion you must get the magnets out of equilibrium. thats the great thing about the monopole, its out of equilibrium! the arrangements of the magnets around the rotor create a field like the one at the coral castle on leedskalnin's generator.

Tom C

[ZPDM]

So I've ordered some magnets and have about a week to wait till they get here. I agree entirely about "regauging", I just never would have expected it to be possible in the way Howard Johnson did, and patented it. It requires a fundamental reformulation of the magnetic model. Hadn't heard of magnetic decay before, will just say I'll worry about that bridge if I see it. Won't touch the Leedskalnin stuff at this point, though I am sure you are making a point there (so much to learn, so much to learn).

While Deitmar's MDS device is based from Howard Johnson's work, he also explored the V-Gate in some depth. This is the approach I intend to look at, I don't have access to a machine shop and without such could perhaps not reproduce his MDS work with sufficient precision, I am not an engineer, in fact I may have no clue what I am doing at all, but I sure am having fun! While likely less powerful, the V-gate approach appears more forgiving in terms of precision. Actually even while I wait for appropriate and sufficient magnets I saw some modestly encouraging stuff with the V-gate approach. Another thing I plan to do is buy a dollar or so spring. I have a 30 dollar RPM meter a 30 dollar digital temperature meter but the cheapest digital force gauge I can find is 400 bucks! So I will take a spring put it on a wooden dowel attach a hook and make some ruler markings. Voila! a two dollar force gauge. (And I thought this hobby wasn't useful!)

A side benefit to this approach might be that if you optimize things to a point where you are not equaling the performance seen by Howard Johnson but still have improved things and have one or two choke points on your rotor you could at that point throw an electromagnet switch at it and see what sort of efficiency/COP you are encountering.

BTW will try and edit and post a video related to gyroscopes this week-end. Did this experiment a couple months back and have just left it to simmer on the back burner. I've thought about it a bit and the best I come up with is Bruce DePalma was right, mass is anisotrophic and related to rotational momentum.

Ciao,

Paul

[Suprnova74]

I watched the EFTV video on Mr Johnson and what was REALLY interesting to me was the device the student that was working with him built to graph the magnetic waves in 3D quickly. However, I cannot find anything in regards to patents or more information other than the little that was in the video (used an old RADAR system to build it, for instance). The only way to really get a good idea at how magnets, shielding and other items behave is to monitor it. Without that, you're pretty much guessing.

The closest I came to finding an interesting idea is to use a fishtank filled with iron filings suspended in mineral oil. The guy built a little tube to insert a magnet, but I was thinking of a plastic membrane that you could insert magnet configurations into and then submerge to observe the various patterns. Unfortunately, that's static modeling but closer than anything I've discovered so far.

[MrRonsen]

or do the same as howard does to plot the magfields, with todays possibilities, arduino plus stepper motors plus magfield sensor.. and a software to visualize your 3d plotted data

[Suprnova74]

or do the same as howard does to plot the magfields, with todays possibilities, arduino plus stepper motors plus magfield sensor.. and a software to visualize your 3d plotted data

I saw a write-up on how to build at least the basic model of what you mention and may pursue that for static modeling. However, it seemed that the device I mentioned earlier was able to take live measurements of the fields which would be invaluable for plotting how magnetic fields interact with one another.

[Kamen]

To my knowledge the only commercially available magnetic field 3D scanner is this: http://www.senis.ch/magnetic/magneti...-field-scanner
It is very expensive starting around $30,000 and I don't know if you need to spend more on probes and accessories..

Does anyone has more information on how to build one of those devices? The visualization software is one part of it. Just building something to control 3 stepper motors and moving a hall sensor is challenging enough.

Kamen