Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[heysoundude]

I recently tried switching carburetor to a different one (old one was worn off at the vacuum slide port), then I realized that some carburetors are impossible to lean out (because of the needle jet design).

I have ordered stock carburetor from Honda. Waiting for it to continue water injection experiments.

From the conversation I had with Daniel Diaz from torque masters, I understood that he is not a technical guy. So can't expect much from him.

You might give up too quickly:
https://eagle-research.com/product/c...third-edition/
I'm certain it's quite possible with stock/factory equipment and certain add-ons to exceed your expectations

[firozmusthafa]

I tried running TM plug for 1000kms, still the resistor value did not go down. I am stopping experiments on torque masters and will be continuing with Chinese non resistor spark plug with plasma. I recently tried switching carburetor to a different one (old one was worn off at the vacuum slide port), then I realized that some carburetors are impossible to lean out (because of the needle jet design).

I have ordered stock carburetor from Honda. Waiting for it to continue water injection experiments.

From the conversation I had with Daniel Diaz from torque masters, I understood that he is not a technical guy. So can't expect much from him.

[Aaron Murakami]

definitely looks like it's blowing the ignition plasma energy well into the cylinder compared to "standard" ignition, but what I was looking for is the proof/evidence that it leads to longer plug life.

You have to go thru the energetic forum posts from 11 years ago from those who made those plugs and tested it.

[heysoundude]

definitely looks like it's blowing the ignition plasma energy well into the cylinder compared to "standard" ignition, but what I was looking for is the proof/evidence that it leads to longer plug life.

[Aaron Murakami]

That was supposed to be an animated gif but didn't work.

You can see it here: http://www.hho4free.com/images/Fires..._animation.gif

[Aaron Murakami]

How is the geometry wrong?
and where can I find proof about the firestorm?

The bottom line is if there is a sharp edge, the high speed current impulse will destroy the high potential electrode.

That is one of the primary concerns.



Krupa wanted people to believe the spark plug geometry was responsible for those large plasma blasts you see on the left (right is normal plug), but the truth was that he cap a plasma ignition setup on the plug - the benefit is long lasting plug.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi,

Walt Jenkins' patented plasma ignition plug looks very promising as well.

[heysoundude]

I know those people that make the Torquemaster.

No matter what material you use, the geometry is just wrong for a long life plasma plug.

The Firestorm one is the only one proven to last longer than any other geometry but the jet plug still needs to be tested.

How is the geometry wrong?
and where can I find proof about the firestorm?

[Aaron Murakami]

If Torquemaster are willing to make tungsten plugs, it might be worthwhile asking if they'd be willing to make Beryllium Copper plugs. Surely they would buy the supplies if there was a demand for that to be used in place of Stainless or tungsten.
My understanding is that copper is a better conductor than steel or tungsten, so I'd be willing to order a set, if the beryllium gave the plugs a longer service life.

Aaron - you seem to be more versed in the metallurgy than I know myself to be; which of the BeCu alloys from this link (http://beryllium.eu/properties-of-beryllium-alloys/) should be used? your pdf is non-specific, but I'd guess it would be alloy 3 or 10 from what I can tell. maybe the guy at Extreme Spark can enlighten us? Firoz, you've chatted with them...would you be willing to take that on?

I rather like that the wiki page indicates that BeCu is an RFI insulator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_copper

I know those people that make the Torquemaster.

No matter what material you use, the geometry is just wrong for a long life plasma plug.

The Firestorm one is the only one proven to last longer than any other geometry but the jet plug still needs to be tested.

[heysoundude]

If Torquemaster are willing to make tungsten plugs, it might be worthwhile asking if they'd be willing to make Beryllium Copper plugs. Surely they would buy the supplies if there was a demand for that to be used in place of Stainless or tungsten.
My understanding is that copper is a better conductor than steel or tungsten, so I'd be willing to order a set, if the beryllium gave the plugs a longer service life.

Aaron - you seem to be more versed in the metallurgy than I know myself to be; which of the BeCu alloys from this link (http://beryllium.eu/properties-of-beryllium-alloys/) should be used? your pdf is non-specific, but I'd guess it would be alloy 3 or 10 from what I can tell. maybe the guy at Extreme Spark can enlighten us? Firoz, you've chatted with them...would you be willing to take that on?

I rather like that the wiki page indicates that BeCu is an RFI insulator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_copper

[Aaron Murakami]

Just as a follow up of my torque master plug experience, torque master plug which I received had 4.3k resistor in it which prevents plasma, which disappointed me. when I talked to Daniel Diaz (torque master) he said that all torque master plugs comes with flexible resistor to overcome EPA regulation. This resistor is designed in such a way that when it runs for 200 to 1000km it breaks down and acts like a non resistor. When I tested after driving for 70km I noticed that resistance decreased from 4.3k to 3.4k. Will test again after completing 1000km.
One thing I noticed with Torque master plug is it is impossible to foul up the spark plug regardless of how much rich mixture is used. I even tried opening the choke for 1 minute, usually with 1 minute of choke, plug will be covered with thick black soot. But torque master still remained spotless even with the presence of resistor.
Because of the absence of plasma, there is definitely some reduction in power, but combustion is way better than all spark plugs I have tested till date(ngk, champion, bosch, iridium ngk, Takai non resistor iridium and cheap Chinese non resistor plug)
When I discussed with Daniel Diaz, he mentioned that if demand is high for tungsten non resistor plugs, he is willing to manufacture non resistor tungsten torque master plugs.

Hi Firoz, great to see you in here. I didn't post your last couple updates because I went out of town.

Even with tungsten, I don't believe they will hold up long term to the plasma. The entire geometry needs to be changed.

This is the kind of igniter the plasma is intended to be used with but I don't know know anyone who has done this. Small recessed cavity in end of plug where the plasma detonates and it shoots out like a jet. I have the pic in the Ignition Secrets book and video presentation.



I've tried this with off the shelf non-foulers but the cavity is too big but anyone should be able to weld some material in the non-fouler to take up space. They look like this - could be put on end of non-resistor plug and with cavity filled to make it smaller, could work well as a plasma jet igniter:



This is the original preferred method but of course a single plug made that way to begin with.

The Firestorm plug has been tested with the plasma ignition and some reported long life - the patents are expired so it is public domain.

Read this: http://www.hho4free.com/spark%20plug...lasmaplugs.pdf

[firozmusthafa]

Just as a follow up of my torque master plug experience, torque master plug which I received had 4.3k resistor in it which prevents plasma, which disappointed me. when I talked to Daniel Diaz (torque master) he said that all torque master plugs comes with flexible resistor to overcome EPA regulation. This resistor is designed in such a way that when it runs for 200 to 1000km it breaks down and acts like a non resistor. When I tested after driving for 70km I noticed that resistance decreased from 4.3k to 3.4k. Will test again after completing 1000km.
One thing I noticed with Torque master plug is it is impossible to foul up the spark plug regardless of how much rich mixture is used. I even tried opening the choke for 1 minute, usually with 1 minute of choke, plug will be covered with thick black soot. But torque master still remained spotless even with the presence of resistor.
Because of the absence of plasma, there is definitely some reduction in power, but combustion is way better than all spark plugs I have tested till date(ngk, champion, bosch, iridium ngk, Takai non resistor iridium and cheap Chinese non resistor plug)
When I discussed with Daniel Diaz, he mentioned that if demand is high for tungsten non resistor plugs, he is willing to manufacture non resistor tungsten torque master plugs.

[heysoundude]

Has anyone experimented with spark plug design for plasma. Aaron I know you have opened the plug gap by bending the ground strap perpendicular to the plug and I do like that it will help build up even more capacitance, but I am concerned with doing so that it may crack the ground straps weld and may break over time. Maybe heating them till they were red would help. Do you think surface gap or perhaps a plug with a cut back strap with an exposed electrode would be a good choice. If normal plug gap is .035 what would be a good starting point with a plasma setup .050 more? Thanks Jeremiah

why not see how far you can go before misfire by opening plugs +10% of stock until it does misfire? (.038-.041-.044...) or power/mileage begin to drop?
if your car has a carb/distributor, you could even lean and play with timing for optimum results. that's why it's called tuning.

I use the Torquemaster plugs in my Daily Driver, and I believe they're 50% or more over stock gap...of course, as I've mentioned before, that's using Granatelli wires between plugs and coil, so all of the ignition energy hits the plug. That's the key part. If you're using resistorless plugs in preparation for switching to the Murakami ignition, ensure your grounding is solid or enhanced.

[RB176]

Well I’ll have to try to open the gap to .050 obviously spark jump is in an issue lol.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Jeremiah,

Has anyone experimented with spark plug design for plasma. ...............Do you think surface gap or perhaps a plug with a cut back strap with an exposed electrode would be a good choice. If normal plug gap is .035 what would be a good starting point with a plasma setup .050 more? Thanks Jeremiah

I have experimented with regular plugs, plugs with the ground strap removed, and also surface gap plugs. I found that the surface gap plugs work the best for me in my test rig, my Bradley GT, and also in my generator set. (I've posted all this previously in this thread.)

With regular plugs you will need .050" minimum. The surface gap plugs are about .053" gap and are non-adjustable.