Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[Aaron Murakami]

An interesting note from my recent tests. I have been using a standard canister coil and microwave oven diodes (I suspect, they were in the junk box) to get the effect with the spark plug sitting in air. No problem after much testing (except maybe to my hearing). However, after I put the spark plug in the engine and ran some initial tests, I found that the diodes quickly failed.

It seems to me that there must be some additional voltage stress that occurs when the plasma actually ignites some fuel, as this happened in the same way with two different diodes. I also find that I can get a bit of noise induced into my USB digital scope when the plasma ignites, but not when the plug sits in air for tests. And that is after going to lengths to isolate the plasma ignition circuitry from the rest of my timing circuits.

I will be ordering new diodes, but I think this is an interesting result in any case. I am no expert on combustion, so it was unexpected.

The microwave diodes can work - I have one on my gas generator, but that is a single piston with a relatively slow rpm compared to a car being driven.

However, they're really weak with such a low amperage rating up to a couple hundred ma's.

That's why I like the 6A100's - they're 6 amps 1000 volts so a string as long as you want for as high of voltage as you want will still be rated for 6 amps, which is probably 7-8 times over rated for this application. It's more cumbersome to have a string versus a single diode, but it's bulletproof for all practical purposes.

I did buy some of these in the past but have not tested them yet: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2CLG-30KV-2A...item3f200cbfeb
mine were not that exact rating but this kind of ham radio diode. This one is 30kv at 2 amps, which is about 8-10 times (or more) the current rating compared to the microwave oven diodes. This single diode is in the $20 range and could be a good solution for a single diode that is fairly bulletproof as well.

[serendipitor]

I like the 6A100's....

Yes, those look good, easy to come by. I picked up this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Voltage...item1e8abaf6a3
which should also be quite adequate, with similar ratings.

I will be interested, once I get past this stage, to see what kind of RF power is being radiated by the plasma, compared to a conventional spark, and what can eventually be done to suppress it. I will be trying clamp on ferrites initially.

[Aaron Murakami]

Absolutely. My email is ____, if you would like to send the shipping address there.

I did receive the Street Fire module, thank you - will test it out. I apologize for the delay but have been trying to get this plasma to work on my car. I'll post vids soon.

[Aaron Murakami]

That ham radio diode works perfect but on my Subaru with wasted spark ignition, I can get 2 of the plugs to have plasma but not the other 2 and I tried every combination of inverted diodes on the negative, etc... you name it. Still working it out.

This diagram is exactly how my DIS-2 is hooked up - I show the HV diode connection so I can tell that the left 2 plugs have HV positive. But the right 2, I can't get the plasma no matter what.



I'm pretty sure the right 2 plug terminals are HV negative. The left 2 always corrode a bit but the right 2 never do. That tells me automatically they're the opposite polarity.

I tried the diode reversed from the negative line trigger connection on the coil to the top of the plug - nothing - tried both triggers - nothing.. tried diode forward, nothing. Reversed it from the center + connection - nothing.

I wrote to MSD - not telling them what I'm doing but to get clarification on the polarity of everything - we'll see what they say or don't say.

At this point, I can tell you I'm not a fan of wasted spark ignition systems.

What I am thinking of doing is to get 2 coil packs where each coil pack has 2 terminals - both positive - so 2 of those will have 4 hv + outputs. Then I can guarantee the positive hv for all 4 plugs and this should work fine with one single ham radio diode going from the + connection into the coil to the top of all 4 plugs.

I'll post vids soon of the different mods that led me up to this on the electrical side of things.

[Aaron Murakami]

Big 3 Upgrade

Just posted 5 threads on 5 different upgrades - a few related to me wanting plasma on this car.

The MSD DIS-2 Upgrade video shows a successful plasma discharge but it only works on the left 2 cylinders as discussed in my previous post.

I can only put 1 vid per post... I recommend everyone doing the Big 3 Upgrade when looking to upgrade anything electrical.

Big 3 Upgrade - http://www.energyscienceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1971

[Aaron Murakami]

Ignition Coil Upgrade - http://www.energyscienceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1972

[Aaron Murakami]

Air Intake Upgrade - http://www.energyscienceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1973

[Aaron Murakami]

180 Amp Alternator Upgrade - http://www.energyscienceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1974

[Aaron Murakami]

MSD DIS-2 Upgrade - http://www.energyscienceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1975

[Aaron Murakami]

I understand the sequence of events in a wasted spark ignition but never had a need to actually learn what the internal wiring diagram of the system is.



That means when I have the diode like below in the MSD diagram, the plasma should already be there on the other plugs - I just didn't disconnect more than one at a time.

The HV discharge voltage (not current) moves forward to ground and from ground back to the center electrode of the opposite side plug, which makes a complete path back to the HV winding.

If that is the case, then the plasma should automatically be at the plug I could see - top left and it should be there at the top right simultaneously. Therefore, just connecting one of these diodes as indicated below, plasma should be at all 4 plug.

I'll test that idea out soon and will report results.

That ham radio diode works perfect but on my Subaru with wasted spark ignition, I can get 2 of the plugs to have plasma but not the other 2 and I tried every combination of inverted diodes on the negative, etc... you name it. Still working it out.

This diagram is exactly how my DIS-2 is hooked up - I show the HV diode connection so I can tell that the left 2 plugs have HV positive. But the right 2, I can't get the plasma no matter what.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3939[/ATTACH]

I'm pretty sure the right 2 plug terminals are HV negative. The left 2 always corrode a bit but the right 2 never do. That tells me automatically they're the opposite polarity.

I tried the diode reversed from the negative line trigger connection on the coil to the top of the plug - nothing - tried both triggers - nothing.. tried diode forward, nothing. Reversed it from the center + connection - nothing.

I wrote to MSD - not telling them what I'm doing but to get clarification on the polarity of everything - we'll see what they say or don't say.

At this point, I can tell you I'm not a fan of wasted spark ignition systems.

What I am thinking of doing is to get 2 coil packs where each coil pack has 2 terminals - both positive - so 2 of those will have 4 hv + outputs. Then I can guarantee the positive hv for all 4 plugs and this should work fine with one single ham radio diode going from the + connection into the coil to the top of all 4 plugs.

I'll post vids soon of the different mods that led me up to this on the electrical side of things.

[longhorn]

Aaron, your MSD DIS II has two internal coils each coil operates two plugs. Check to see if the circuit is open (not switching) on one of the coils, if the circuit is open on one of the coils then two of the plugs will not fire.

[longhorn]

See pg 11 for pin arrangement http://www.msdignition.com/instructi...df?terms=62152

[Aaron Murakami]

If that is the case, then the plasma should automatically be at the plug I could see - top left and it should be there at the top right simultaneously. Therefore, just connecting one of these diodes as indicated below, plasma should be at all 4 plug.

I'll test that idea out soon and will report results.

Thanks Longhorn, that is what I realized today that 2 wouldn't fire if one is unplugged.

I did my test and verified that by hooking up the diodes as I showed in the diagram, I DO get plasma on the other side automatically - it is just basically jumping 2 gaps, but with my test actually jumped 3 since I left the other plug in place and just put another plug between the book and coil terminal.

So 1 diode like this can do the entire engine just by connecting it from the + of the coil input to the 2 plugs on the side where the HV + voltage comes out.

Anyway, it's a SUCCESS as predicted - the plasma works for the whole system!!

Now I have to just make some good connections, mount the diode - might get 2 to divide the usage of the diode.

I also want to make a switch with the diodes with a relay to switch them in and out of the circuit. Will have to only switch them in and out while the car is off to prevent the points from getting welded.

Anyway, I'm now more optimistic about this wasted spark ignition system as it is actually easier to do the plasma for the whole thing than I thought - and with just adding the diode to an off the shelf cap discharge system, it's in perfect alignment with my entire method to make the plasma. Woohoo! lol

[longhorn]

Aaron, there was never any doubt in my mind that you would get it going as I own several of your books and know a little about your mettle. We all lose our way from time to time, and as you pointed out you had already figured out what was going on, I just gave you a nudge confirming what you already knew. None of us are perfect this is why we collaborate and support each other in our community...

Sincerely. Longhorn

P.S. keep us posted on the performance of your plasma ignition system its output is circuitly exciting :-)

[longhorn]

Good source of information here...

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ignition.htm