Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[RB176]

http://www.jegs.com/i/Pertronix/751/40611/10002/-1

[Aaron Murakami]

coil

Will a coil with a 3.0 ohm internal ballast work for plasma or does it have to much resistance? I am using a Pertronix Flame Thrower1 with Granatelli wires.

Can you post a link to your coin on Pertronix's own website?

[RB176]

Will a coil with a 3.0 ohm internal ballast work for plasma or does it have to much resistance? I am using a Pertronix Flame Thrower1 with Granatelli wires.

[heysoundude]

Aaron or any other forum membersA couple of questions:I came across a sparkplug by Pulstar (Pulstar :: The world's best, most powerful sparkplug.) that has a capacitor built into the plug. Could this be used in addition to a capacitor on the coil circuit....ie...CDI circuit? My caddy has two Ignition Coil Packs (with separate coils for each plug)....I don't think I will be able to use your Plasma circuit because of this, and am wondering if these capacitor spark plugs would still be usable to increase the strength of the spark (similar to your approach in Chapt 3 of your book....just has capacitor built into plug).Also, my perception is that the plasma effect cannot be obtained with resistor plugs....am I correct that if resistor plugs and plug wires are removed, it will screw up the radio/electronics that are emf sensitive?Because my caddy uses coil packs and Street Fire said they don't make a CDI unit for my car, I am doubtful as to whether plasma effect can be achieved using your methods. Would I be gaining ground if I can figure out a way to put a large capacitor and diode string in the circuit for each coil in the coil pack (in place of a CDI unit)? If so, what size capacitor would be recommended? If I used this approach, would the Pulstar capacitor spark plugs coupled with the in circuit capacitor increase the spark/plasma at the plug tip, or would they interfere with each other? Any thoughts or suggestions if this "plan B" approach is used on newer vehicles?Jody

Plan B is what needs to be worked on, because it's getting tougher to find cars with carburetors and Distributors.You're on the right path with realizing each of your Caddy's coil packs are a primary AND secondary with terminals to two cylinders. The first trick is to determine how to apply the diode, the second is to shorten that energy delivery to the primary (duty cycle/energy under the curve...) without burning it out.

[heysoundude]

Hi,I have a subaru too (waste spark) and I have tried the sparkamp x40 High Performance Ignition Systems > Ignition Kitsbut at this time I didn't retarded ignition timing so the change was not as it could have beenI am curious about the method for retarding ignition timing, maybe efie (cts, maf, o2, ???)

Close: MAP sensor adjustment. EFIE is what adjusts the signal from o2 sensors back into normal range after better combustion makes for higher oxygen content in exhaust, and would've helped with mileage.Truthfully, you need both for a proper, full optimization, because an ECU is programmed to work very hard (and given ridiculous tools to aid itself) to hit 14.7:1

[Aaron Murakami]

Hello.
Bringing up the subject from page 104 regarding problems with arching between the diodes. I now - think - I have found the issue. I tried to install the entire system on a more or less stock engine and fired it up. Made some low to mid rpm pulls with maximum load and cylinder pressure. Here nothing happens exept from a crispier throttle response and a hairwith better power. My hunch is now back to the 20KV diodes being on overload with a high comnpression engine. A simple math with Bmep versus average ignition power requirements suggests the same, but I´m not sure it is that simple a calculation.
However, I searced a little, and it looks like it is possible to get some 40 KV 3 amp diodes/rectifiers like these http://www.setecelectron.com/product...p?selectId=649 Do you guys think that will be worth a try or am I on my way out on a tangent?

Best regards
Torben

Those diodes are good - used to use the CL2 series diodes a lot in the past - even back when they were $25 a piece! I'd search ebay for 3amp hv diodes to see more options.

[Alstrup]

Hello.
Bringing up the subject from page 104 regarding problems with arching between the diodes. I now - think - I have found the issue. I tried to install the entire system on a more or less stock engine and fired it up. Made some low to mid rpm pulls with maximum load and cylinder pressure. Here nothing happens exept from a crispier throttle response and a hairwith better power. My hunch is now back to the 20KV diodes being on overload with a high comnpression engine. A simple math with Bmep versus average ignition power requirements suggests the same, but I´m not sure it is that simple a calculation.
However, I searced a little, and it looks like it is possible to get some 40 KV 3 amp diodes/rectifiers like these http://www.setecelectron.com/product...p?selectId=649 Do you guys think that will be worth a try or am I on my way out on a tangent?

Best regards
Torben

[heysoundude]

Been looking for Kapton wire myself for another projects, specifically 23 AWG coated with Kapton CR (corona resistant). Double build is preferrable over single build, but triple or quadruple is even better if it doesn't cost a fortune. Need a 10 # roll if you or anyone else knows where to get any. All the wire manufacturers and major distributors are really flaky - never respond to quote requests.

Can't help with kapton wire, but if you scroll to the bottom of the link for the description, you'll likely get a bit closer to answers:https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...dlwire.phpwith a mil-spec code, you should be able to find wire that meets or possibly exceeds your requirements, for less than aviation prices. ($500 is what is said to be found in the seat cushions of small aircraft, and a cappuccino machine for a Gulfstream is $10 grand)

[Aaron Murakami]

kapton, perhaps? it's used for wiring harnesses in aviation applications.

Been looking for Kapton wire myself for another projects, specifically 23 AWG coated with Kapton CR (corona resistant). Double build is preferrable over single build, but triple or quadruple is even better if it doesn't cost a fortune. Need a 10 # roll if you or anyone else knows where to get any.

All the wire manufacturers and major distributors are really flaky - never respond to quote requests.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi All,

I just finished a replication of Aaron's 555 timer circuit driving a street-fire MSD module thru a MSD Blaster coil. Here's a video of it installed over a fogger unit while I was demonstrating it to my son and grandson (and exposing them to dangerous radiation - LOL ).

The video starts out with a surface gap plug installed without fog and then with fog. Next comes a regular plug with conventional gap. It runs both with and without fog added. Then a little propane gas is added (both with the fog and without the fog), and finally I show my plasma lighter.

We all lived thru the experiment and my son Bob took the video.

I now have this plasma ignition unit installed on my 3550 watt gen set. I don't need the 555 timer for this as I am triggering with a hall switch next to the original flywheel magnet. Here's some photos of the set up. The last photo is a close up of the surface gap plug I'm using.

[heysoundude]

Aaron, During my tenure at Honeywell I worked for an 'Ignitor' Project, and we custom made these HEI Spark coil, it was a CDI type of Ignition system and we had these miniature coils hand made with heavy insulation using a material (don't recollect the name) like teflon. including the wire jacket made of the same material.Rgds, Faraday88.

kapton, perhaps? it's used for wiring harnesses in aviation applications.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi RB176,

I’ll be using the PRHVP2A-20 Single Phase High Voltage Rectifier Diode so with these diodes, so I’ll be putting the cathode side towards the plug. Is that correct? Coil + to —>|— towards plug?

On my set up the diode (+) is toward the plug and the diode (-) is toward the coil primary that is marked (+) from the MSD box. It all depends on which polarity your coil is.

If it doesn't work one way, just swap the leads on the diode. It isn't going to hurt anything if it's backwards. It just won't fire the plug at all if it's wrong. It just shorts out the plug gap if it's backwards.

[RB176]

I’ll be using the PRHVP2A-20 Single Phase High Voltage Rectifier Diode so with these diodes, so I’ll be putting the cathode side towards the plug. Is that correct? Coil + to —>|— towards plug?

[Aaron Murakami]

Hi Aaron,
It was for a Aerospace Project not sure the end application but must be for a spontaneous combustion kind of Fuel im sure like the Petrol.
Yes, Aaron some companies are already making integrated Plug on the Coil. I'm, keen to make a coil to try out what i said for your kind of Plasma Burst,Ido have a few ideas on exactly what you refereed about the HV diode integrated as well.
each layer would be about 10-15 turns and several layers over each other, each layer epoxy insulated. (the old CRT EHT Coil)
I would use several lower Voltage diode is series to the coil (Intermittently) and the encapsulate them as a ready to fire unit!
howz that?
Rgds,
Faraday88.

I worked with Arvind briefly who was involved with the other 2 out of 3 inventions in the plasma ignition patent. For a while, he had some company in China integrate the diode into the COPs. The company was flaky so we couldn't rely on the supplying us with product so I had to stop promoting them a long time ago.

Yes, there are many COPs out there, even performance ones that don't cost very much. To retrofit a diode is out the question for the average experimenter.

If there was a COP with at least an exposed connecting terminal to the top of the plug where an external diode can connect to the top of the plug, that would make it easy - no need to actually have the diode inside. If it was inside, I guess as long as the rating is high enough beyond what is needed so they will not blow out, then would be even easier. Would be nice to be able to turn them off and on, which would be possible with an external diode.

COP plasma system is lacking because of the COP/diode issue not being easy for the average person. If I had them, I'd be able to put it on my 2006 Subaru Outback XT 5-speed - this turbo model has the coil on plugs so is a bit more complicated than the coil pack on my 98 Legacy.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi RB176,

.................................................. ..... In your experience what brand plugs hold up the best with plasma?

I'm using NGK shunt gap plugs with the plasma ignition in my VW powered Bradley GT. So far, so good. They perform really well in the modified engine. The ignition module is an MSD A6 unit triggered by a hall sensor in the distributor.