Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[Aaron Murakami]

Trying to do some updates to my system, tried modified spark plugs with the ground electrode removed, having that way a similar to the NGK BUE surface discharge spark plug operation with some differences:

#1 the central electrode now is 3 mm instead of 2 mm
#2 they look rather as semi-surface discharge, since the spark/arc is partially 180° on the ceramic insulator, (a tiny part), and the rest a free 360° spark/arc.
#3 the gap is now a huge 2 mm gap instead of the previous 1.3 mm, (recommended for the normal spark plugs is 0.7-0.8 mm), the 1.3 surface discharge gap being an easy for the sparc/arc to overcome because of that different geometry. (The distributor burns the contacts from the high energy demands, though, so it seems that the cavitated and filled with contactive grease contacts is a solution).

Now here is a question: with these modified spark plugs, sporadically, there is a strange phenomenon, (and this is why I am talking about spark and arc).

There are, simultaneously two discharges: one in a yellow-orange color, and 0.5 mm away, a second one with the bright white color. I thought that these two coincide always. Is this strange or it is expected?

Are you discharging plasma through a distributor? You can bypass it and go straight to the top of the plugs.

Are you a machinist? Perhaps you can try to make some Robert Krupa Firestorm plugs to test with the plasma.

Can you post a video or pic of the spark/arc?

[Hellenic Vanagon]

Trying to do some updates to my system, tried modified spark plugs with the ground electrode removed, having that way a similar to the NGK BUE surface discharge spark plug operation with some differences:

#1 the central electrode now is 3 mm instead of 2 mm
#2 they look rather as semi-surface discharge, since the spark/arc is partially 180° on the ceramic insulator, (a tiny part), and the rest a free 360° spark/arc.
#3 the gap is now a huge 2 mm gap instead of the previous 1.3 mm, (recommended for the normal spark plugs is 0.7-0.8 mm), the 1.3 surface discharge gap being an easy for the sparc/arc to overcome because of that different geometry. (The distributor burns the contacts from the high energy demands, though, so it seems that the cavitated and filled with contactive grease contacts is a solution).

Now here is a question: with these modified spark plugs, sporadically, there is a strange phenomenon, (and this is why I am talking about spark and arc).

There are, simultaneously two discharges: one in a yellow-orange color, and 0.5 mm away, a second one with the bright white color. I thought that these two coincide always. Is this strange or it is expected?

[heysoundude]

just a quick post for a source for HV caps and diodes I've found:
hvstuff.com
they even have the HV wire discussed earlier in the thread

[Hellenic Vanagon]

(O.k., thinking about a water bubbler or a petrol fumes jar. Yes of course it works).

[Hellenic Vanagon]

Just in the case you know that nothing better can be done, please don't worry. The Plasma, in my case, supports the ignition functioning with the surface discharge spark plugs, which:

1)Allow the use of the regular petrol 95 Ron instead of the super 98 Ron, without any compromise in the performance, (on the contrary, being immune to detonation and promoting a better combustion), the difference in Greece being ~ 20%.

2)Reduce the consumption, at least, (I give the official estimation), 6%.

3)Are susceptible to fouling if not supported by a proper, high energy, ignition, (here comes the Plasma).


Thank you for your time, (and knowledge).

Very happy with my Plasma.

[Hellenic Vanagon]

A lot of work was necessary in order to support the Plasma engagement.

Here are my first impressions:

Trying to lean the fuel mixture, it is possible to intervene to the time the injectors are functioning.

"Using a stock file from a 1992 G60 Passat syncro, and ECU temperature of 87 deg C, an IAT of 32 deg C and a battery voltage of 14, I get the following results adjusting the CO pot value:

800 RPM at 37.5 mbar:

CO pot setting vs Inj PW

0 ; 3.102 ms
200 ; 2.620 ms
400 ; 2.540 ms
495 ; 2.480 ms <-- value where fuel is neither added nor subtracted
600 ; 2.416 ms
800 ; 2.328 ms
1000; 2.254 ms
1200; 2.202 ms
1400; 2.156 ms
1600; 2.120 ms
1800; 2.088 ms
2000; 2.062 ms

6300 RPM at 175 mbar:

CO pot setting vs Inj PW
0 ; 9.146 ms
200 ; 9.088 ms
400 ; 9.042 ms
495 ; 9.030 ms <-- value where fuel is neither added nor subtracted
600 ; 9.006 ms
800 ; 8.984 ms
1000; 8.960 ms
1200; 8.950 ms
1400; 8.938 ms
1600; 8.926 ms
1800; 8.914 ms
2000; 8.904 ms

These values would only come into play when the ECU is in open loop, otherwise the O2 sensor takes over.



http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthr...ng-copot/page2 "


In my system the limit is the setting at 1900 Ω.

By doing this adjustment, (at 1900 Ω), I am observing the following phenomena:

1) Plasma on/off and the needle of the tachometer jumps, just a little bit, so the system affects the operation. (This is at any fuel adjustment).

2) The engine's temperature remains on the same level as in the normal fueling. (The normal value is at about 490-500 Ω).
(This is checked only under very light duty, since I haven't the time to check it under normal or heavy operation).

3) There is a substantial drop in the performance of the engine, especially at the high revs.

4) The first measurements with the on board trip computer saw an, almost, vertical slope in the reduction of the consumption.

Saying these, the only point for anxiety is the drop in the performance.


Any thoughts?

[Aaron Murakami]

Thank you for sending that!
Ok, now I understand that hookup but I also thought we needed to connect the extra strong spark directly to the top of each non-resistor plug to get plasma?

When you hook up the MSD/CDI, you are already getting a stronger spark at each plug - from coil, thru distributor directly to each plug.

After the MSD/CDI is hooked up, then you add diodes. 4 of them.

If you're coil isn't suitable for capacitive discharge, I'd recommend this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...SIN=B002Q363XM

After getting the cdi/msd hooked up, post your results and then we can diagram the diodes to the top of the plugs. That will be super easy.

[rokan]

Connection to the top of each Spark Plug

Here's the full PDF http://documents.msdperformance.com/5520.pdf

Thank you for sending that!
Ok, now I understand that hookup but I also thought we needed to connect the extra strong spark directly to the top of each non-resistor plug to get plasma?

[Aaron Murakami]

I can't enlarge the instructions to be able to read them?

Here's the full PDF http://documents.msdperformance.com/5520.pdf

[rokan]

I can't enlarge the instructions to be able to read them?

[rokan]

Ron, if you check the resistance between the input terminal of the wires you spliced in to the spark plug cables to the terminal in the boot that slips over the plug is relatively low and you use non-resistor plugs, they should work fine. What is that resistance by the way if you can measure it?

The coil you have looks simple enough - basic autotransformer coil with the primary if that its the red and white wires on the input and the hv output has a common ground with the ignition coil, you should have an easy job. I don't see what the Street Fire or other common MSD will not work. If that red is the primary + and the white is the primary - , then it should work.



You hook it up like that depending on if you have points (top) or an electronic pickup (bottom). That is the first step to get the plasma on your Toyota.

Aaron,
The plug wires from the red section are solid wire for a direct connection to the plug. I spliced into the original wires leaving the top section coming from the cap original to help reduce RF?? I was under the assumption that when I build the plasma unit I would need to connect directly to the plug? I did the wire modification to allow that without having all wire plug wires which I understand can cause RF problems with the computer, right?

[Hellenic Vanagon]

Please give a reminder on what you're pointing out.

My post #782:

http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post28385

[Aaron Murakami]

Here are some pics of the spark plug wires and cap that I modified.
I hope they are self explanatory? I drilled a hole in the top of the cap to make connection with the rotor and disconnected and insulated the coil inside the distributor. If I can go back to using the internal coil that would be great and add the plasma external equipment to work with that will be awesome!

Ron, if you check the resistance between the input terminal of the wires you spliced in to the spark plug cables to the terminal in the boot that slips over the plug is relatively low and you use non-resistor plugs, they should work fine. What is that resistance by the way if you can measure it?

The coil you have looks simple enough - basic autotransformer coil with the primary if that its the red and white wires on the input and the hv output has a common ground with the ignition coil, you should have an easy job. I don't see what the Street Fire or other common MSD will not work. If that red is the primary + and the white is the primary - , then it should work.



You hook it up like that depending on if you have points (top) or an electronic pickup (bottom). That is the first step to get the plasma on your Toyota.

[Aaron Murakami]

And the problem is isolated:

http://www.vwsyncro.eu/p/blog-page_34.html
(scroll down please)

Please give a reminder on what you're pointing out.

[rokan]

Here are some pics of the spark plug wires and cap that I modified.
I hope they are self explanatory? I drilled a hole in the top of the cap to make connection with the rotor and disconnected and insulated the coil inside the distributor. If I can go back to using the internal coil that would be great and add the plasma external equipment to work with that will be awesome!