Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[Aaron Murakami]

Aaron, you ststed in the above that your plasma ignition works on modern cars. I assume that you mean cars that don't have the regular ignition coil that you use in the video.
I have your book Ignition Secrets and as best I can tell only the old style coil is used. I would like very much to be able to use thePlasma Ignition on my car, but I am lost because I have no coil to work with, other than the one inside the distributor. My car is a 1997 Acura CL 3L V6.
I will be unable to use the plasma ignition until I get some more information. I hope someone will be willing to tell me how to go about using this technology. And a parts list would be most helpful.
I may also have some helpful information that would allow water to be more useable as a fuel. I have never seen this
information mentioned anywhere. Thank you for your help. UseNoFuel

I'm not familiar with the ignition in your car. I did have it hooked up to my 1998 Subaru Legacy GT with a wasted spark ignition coil pack - did a whole presentation on it.

Can you post some pictures and diagrams of your ignition?

[UseNoFuel]

Aaron, I made a mistake in the above post when I said that my 1997 Acura had no coil. It DOES have a coilo and I removed it so I could examine it. It is nothing like I was looking for! The coil has a plug going into it from the wiring harness. The plug carries THREE wires. and, of course, there is a HV wire going to the distributor.
I looked up coild for this car in the online parts catalog and I see that they offer similar, of not exact, replicas of my coil PLUS regular canister coils which are all 12 volt and all are replacement coils.
That leaves me to wonder WHY my coil has leads going into it. I suspect that one lead goes back to the Control Module or to the ECU. I do have a new 12 volt canister coil that I could use if I knew how to wire it to the existing 3 wires.
I am an old time mechanic and I know little about cars since they started using ECU's.
I know I will need a CDI and HV diode(s). Can you please tell me how to procede ?
I am sure this is all very simple to you, but not so much for me. Thanks again. UseNoFuel

[Aaron Murakami]

pics and diagrams

Aaron, I made a mistake in the above post when I said that my 1997 Acura had no coil. It DOES have a coilo and I removed it so I could examine it. It is nothing like I was looking for! The coil has a plug going into it from the wiring harness. The plug carries THREE wires. and, of course, there is a HV wire going to the distributor.
I looked up coild for this car in the online parts catalog and I see that they offer similar, of not exact, replicas of my coil PLUS regular canister coils which are all 12 volt and all are replacement coils.
That leaves me to wonder WHY my coil has leads going into it. I suspect that one lead goes back to the Control Module or to the ECU. I do have a new 12 volt canister coil that I could use if I knew how to wire it to the existing 3 wires.
I am an old time mechanic and I know little about cars since they started using ECU's.
I know I will need a CDI and HV diode(s). Can you please tell me how to procede ?
I am sure this is all very simple to you, but not so much for me. Thanks again. UseNoFuel

Please post pictures and diagrams.

[UseNoFuel]

Aaron, I am trying to send a sketch that I made of my ignition system as I think it should be. I may not be able to send the sketch.I never did this before.
I don't know if this worked or not. If you can't view the image I sent, or tried to send, please tell me where I can send it to you by email. The only thing there is to show is a small coil and a distributor. My diagram shows the way I would wire it from what I understand from your book.My system is different because the signal comes from an ECU instead of from a set of points. I have no way to send a picture unless I copied an image from online. Do you want me to do that? UseNoFuel

[Aaron Murakami]

Aaron, I am trying to send a sketch that I made of my ignition system as I think it should be. I may not be able to send the sketch.I never did this before.
I don't know if this worked or not. If you can't view the image I sent, or tried to send, please tell me where I can send it to you by email. The only thing there is to show is a small coil and a distributor. My diagram shows the way I would wire it from what I understand from your book.My system is different because the signal comes from an ECU instead of from a set of points. I have no way to send a picture unless I copied an image from online. Do you want me to do that? UseNoFuel

I can see the image, might be a few issues there.

If that is a real normal distributor cap, putting the HV diode there will make plasma between the rotor connecting and the contact inside the cap for each plug. It is better to take the diode and connect it to the top of each spark plug under the plug cable boot. You'll bypass the resistance of the cables. You have to be very careful that you aren't sparking over to the engine block, etc... I'm not sure of the rest of the diagram, I see what you're getting at but there should be a harness adapter for your ignition coil - the engine power and trigger wires normally go into the CDI and the CDI has an output that goes to the coil - looks like you have it drawn in parallel somewhat meaning both the cdi and engine harness are directly connected to the coil.

[zonman]

What would happen I put peaking capacitors an lost spark ignition?????

[Aaron Murakami]

What would happen I put peaking capacitors an lost spark ignition?????

You can put those in parallel with the plug gap. They would be high voltage very low capacitance AC caps most likely and polarity doesn't matter.

[UseNoFuel]

I can see the image, might be a few issues there.

If that is a real normal distributor cap, putting the HV diode there will make plasma between the rotor connecting and the contact inside the cap for each plug. It is better to take the diode and connect it to the top of each spark plug under the plug cable boot. You'll bypass the resistance of the cables. You have to be very careful that you aren't sparking over to the engine block, etc... I'm not sure of the rest of the diagram, I see what you're getting at but there should be a harness adapter for your ignition coil - the engine power and trigger wires normally go into the CDI and the CDI has an output that goes to the coil - looks like you have it drawn in parallel somewhat meaning both the cdi and engine harness are directly connected to the coil.

Aaron, I thought the HOT spark would be too much for the distributor to handle. And I agree that the HOT spark should be delivered dorectly to the plugs. However, I am at a loss to imagine how this could be accomplished without sending the same spark to all six plugs unless I had six independent systems, one for each plug. Can you please shed some light on this issue?
As for the way I show the CDI being connected, I don't have a CDI yet that should show how to correctly connect it. I was simply going by the way you show the CDI being connected in your published diagram. I didn't really think the trigger signal should connect with the output lead of the CDI. I imagined it would have a separate connection. I will obtain the CDI when I am sure I know enough to be able to make it work properly.
I believe you mentioned in your 3 of 3 video above that the diode you used to contact the spark plug had a value of
20K volts. I believe you also mentioned that the diode had a value of 12K volts. I haven't been able to find a source for
diodes with these values. I would like to know the value of the diode that I need to use AND where that diode may be obtained.
I am learning a lot and I do believe that with a little more of your help I will be able to complete this project.
UseNoFuel

[Aaron Murakami]

Aaron, I thought the HOT spark would be too much for the distributor to handle. And I agree that the HOT spark should be delivered dorectly to the plugs. However, I am at a loss to imagine how this could be accomplished without sending the same spark to all six plugs unless I had six independent systems, one for each plug. Can you please shed some light on this issue?
As for the way I show the CDI being connected, I don't have a CDI yet that should show how to correctly connect it. I was simply going by the way you show the CDI being connected in your published diagram. I didn't really think the trigger signal should connect with the output lead of the CDI. I imagined it would have a separate connection. I will obtain the CDI when I am sure I know enough to be able to make it work properly.
I believe you mentioned in your 3 of 3 video above that the diode you used to contact the spark plug had a value of
20K volts. I believe you also mentioned that the diode had a value of 12K volts. I haven't been able to find a source for
diodes with these values. I would like to know the value of the diode that I need to use AND where that diode may be obtained.
I am learning a lot and I do believe that with a little more of your help I will be able to complete this project.
UseNoFuel

Did you study the whole ignition system package? If not, you can find most of the material free on Energetic Forum in the water sparkplug threads.

The cap will only discharge over the sparkplug that gets the high voltage spark to initiate the plasma impulse.

If it is 6 cylinder and the diode connects to the top of all 6 plugs, the cap will only discharge over the one that has the high voltage spark initiated by the rotor/cap contact for whatever particular plug.

If there is no hv spark at a plug, the cap cannot discharge there across the plug.

This is what I use for diode(s) - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B00BN2NGSM

Do you know if your ignition coil delivers a HV positive or negative to the plugs?

Either way, if you can get an off the shelf cdi that is made for your car with no modifications other than the harness to connect it all, just by adding the diode(s) in the right places, you should have the plasma.

You need non resistor plugs and of course this is all at your own risk.

[UseNoFuel]

Thanks, Aaron. I understand more about how this works.
About the polarity of the spark from the coil, I do not know. I would assume it is POSITIVE, simply because the GROUND on this car is NEGATIVE and the spark seeks the ground.
I tried to use the information that you sent last post about the DIODES. However I could find no results on Amazon. If you could please tell me the values of the diodes you use, I could possibly find a match. I found a few with a 20K or 30K voltage rating but they have an amp rating of only a few mA. I am not sure what the power rating must be.Thanks again! UseNoFuel

[Aaron Murakami]

Thanks, Aaron. I understand more about how this works.
About the polarity of the spark from the coil, I do not know. I would assume it is POSITIVE, simply because the GROUND on this car is NEGATIVE and the spark seeks the ground.
I tried to use the information that you sent last post about the DIODES. However I could find no results on Amazon. If you could please tell me the values of the diodes you use, I could possibly find a match. I found a few with a 20K or 30K voltage rating but they have an amp rating of only a few mA. I am not sure what the power rating must be.Thanks again! UseNoFuel

Many coils are negative HV that jumps to a negative ground. Polarity doesn't really mean much with electricity, it is more about potential difference. If there is a common connection between ground and an ignition coil with a negative hv output, it is only seeking to jump back to itself through a lower potential difference and the ground meets this need.

I gave a link - if you click it, it goes right to that diode in Amazon - did it not?

[Scorch]

Final Water Vapor Test

Hello all. How are you?
I am fine and trust you are fine as well.

I finally got around to performing an actual, real world test of the plasma ignition system on this generator and did produce a video of this yesterday.
There is currently a blizzard moving through Colorado here on the plains and both major east/west routes are closed so not much work to do yesterday or today...

The plasma ignition system itself is working well and I did run the engine for a short period of time just on a starting fluid primer.
Then I set igintion timing to top dead center for optimum compression and tried doing some testing with both a mister spray bottle as well as an ultrasonic humidifier.

Neither test has revealed any desirable effect such as a single "fire" of the engine or even an audible 'pop' from the exhaust port.

And at this point; I am out of ideas of what else to try other than configuring for additional capacitive discharge to add high current to high voltage which is another project all in itself and will likely just burn up spark plugs and possibly cause other engine damage so I prefer to try some HHO experiments first.

But I am certainly open to suggestions as to how it may be possible to run on straight water in this type of setup.

I am still very intrigued by the possibility of using a fairly large HHO cell on a pretty small engine simply driving a generator which may be enough to power the cell just as depicted in that video showing a Anton cell running a generator in an elevator.

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMlciNOyo_U

There a few things about this video that many of you may not be aware of:

1. The HHO system is sitting on a cart that is being strongly vibrated by the engine which helps to increase gas bubbles rising off the reactor plates.

2. Engine does have a small air intake port supplementing the HHO supply.

3. It appears his HHO is being powered by a simple variable transformer and rectifier which means that if he increases the voltage beyond a certain limit; the HHO cell will also start producing additional water vapor-steam that may also supplement the HHO supply.

4. His generator and transformer are 240 volt models which may be a little more efficient than my 120 volt versions.

5. His HHO cell may have been modified by sand blasting the plates at a 45 degree angle to also increase gas output per the suggestions of Morray King in his presentation at the 2012 GBEM conference.

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2sjMN8sMc

That is all for now, enjoy your experiments and have a great day!

Kindest regards;

Scorch.

[Aaron Murakami]

Hello all. How are you?
I am fine and trust you are fine as well.

I finally got around to performing an actual, real world test of the plasma ignition system on this generator and did produce a video of this yesterday.
There is currently a blizzard moving through Colorado here on the plains and both major east/west routes are closed so not much work to do yesterday or today...

The plasma ignition system itself is working well and I did run the engine for a short period of time just on a starting fluid primer.
Then I set igintion timing to top dead center for optimum compression and tried doing some testing with both a mister spray bottle as well as an ultrasonic humidifier.

Neither test has revealed any desirable effect such as a single "fire" of the engine or even an audible 'pop' from the exhaust port.

And at this point; I am out of ideas of what else to try other than configuring for additional capacitive discharge to add high current to high voltage which is another project all in itself and will likely just burn up spark plugs and possibly cause other engine damage so I prefer to try some HHO experiments first.

But I am certainly open to suggestions as to how it may be possible to run on straight water in this type of setup.

I am still very intrigued by the possibility of using a fairly large HHO cell on a pretty small engine simply driving a generator which may be enough to power the cell just as depicted in that video showing a Anton cell running a generator in an elevator.

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMlciNOyo_U

There a few things about this video that many of you may not be aware of:

1. The HHO system is sitting on a cart that is being strongly vibrated by the engine which helps to increase gas bubbles rising off the reactor plates.

2. Engine does have a small air intake port supplementing the HHO supply.

3. It appears his HHO is being powered by a simple variable transformer and rectifier which means that if he increases the voltage beyond a certain limit; the HHO cell will also start producing additional water vapor-steam that may also supplement the HHO supply.

4. His generator and transformer are 240 volt models which may be a little more efficient than my 120 volt versions.

5. His HHO cell may have been modified by sand blasting the plates at a 45 degree angle to also increase gas output per the suggestions of Morray King in his presentation at the 2012 GBEM conference.

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2sjMN8sMc

That is all for now, enjoy your experiments and have a great day!

Kindest regards;

Scorch.

Just the street fire with plasma is way to small to try only water. Plasma ignition at that level is intended for gas powered cars running on leaner mixture with or without additional hho or water vapor.

You can see Revizal's old motorcycle video using not a CDI plasma but cap with diode in parallel with the stock plug. He gets it to run a bit with just plain water in the intake but you can see the size of his cap setup.

Just to see if it is promising for your setup, you can put a booster cap setup in parallel with your plug and see if it kicks over with just water.

But I wouldn't plan on it being able to run that way strictly on water that easily and without possible damage.

What about running it on gasoline then slowly lean it out to see how lean you can get it with plasma and water vapor? I'd go that route first to more easily see what happens first.

[UseNoFuel]

Hi AAron,
With your help I have come to understand most of the information for buildiPLASMA.pdfng the Plasma Ignition.
I have watched the video below but I am still not certain about the connection between the Positive lead on the coil
to the coil HV wire. I am sending a diagram of the correct way to wire the system. What I see in the video is that the
orange wire from the CDI is connected to the HV coil wire with a 20K diode.
Please let me know if this is correct so I can correct my diagram. I believe this to be the only issue I have.
I appreciate you help. UseNoFuel I can't seem to attach my diagram.PLASMA.pdf

[Aaron Murakami]

Hi AAron,
With your help I have come to understand most of the information for buildi[ATTACH]5103[/ATTACH]ng the Plasma Ignition.
I have watched the video below but I am still not certain about the connection between the Positive lead on the coil
to the coil HV wire. I am sending a diagram of the correct way to wire the system. What I see in the video is that the
orange wire from the CDI is connected to the HV coil wire with a 20K diode.
Please let me know if this is correct so I can correct my diagram. I believe this to be the only issue I have.
I appreciate you help. UseNoFuel I can't seem to attach my diagram.[ATTACH]5103[/ATTACH]

According to your PDF, it is all correct except for one wire - the wire coming from the diodes, you have it connected to the HV output....you need to move that and connect it to the + of the primary of the ignition coil. That orange wire is connected to the + of the capacitor in the MSD unit. You'll just have to test if your resistance wires will work, if too high, the plasma effect will not happen.