Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[heysoundude]

Aaron, During my tenure at Honeywell I worked for an 'Ignitor' Project, and we custom made these HEI Spark coil, it was a CDI type of Ignition system and we had these miniature coils hand made with heavy insulation using a material (don't recollect the name) like teflon. including the wire jacket made of the same material.Rgds, Faraday88.

kapton, perhaps? it's used for wiring harnesses in aviation applications.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi All,

I just finished a replication of Aaron's 555 timer circuit driving a street-fire MSD module thru a MSD Blaster coil. Here's a video of it installed over a fogger unit while I was demonstrating it to my son and grandson (and exposing them to dangerous radiation - LOL ).

The video starts out with a surface gap plug installed without fog and then with fog. Next comes a regular plug with conventional gap. It runs both with and without fog added. Then a little propane gas is added (both with the fog and without the fog), and finally I show my plasma lighter.

We all lived thru the experiment and my son Bob took the video.

I now have this plasma ignition unit installed on my 3550 watt gen set. I don't need the 555 timer for this as I am triggering with a hall switch next to the original flywheel magnet. Here's some photos of the set up. The last photo is a close up of the surface gap plug I'm using.

[Aaron Murakami]

kapton, perhaps? it's used for wiring harnesses in aviation applications.

Been looking for Kapton wire myself for another projects, specifically 23 AWG coated with Kapton CR (corona resistant). Double build is preferrable over single build, but triple or quadruple is even better if it doesn't cost a fortune. Need a 10 # roll if you or anyone else knows where to get any.

All the wire manufacturers and major distributors are really flaky - never respond to quote requests.

[heysoundude]

Been looking for Kapton wire myself for another projects, specifically 23 AWG coated with Kapton CR (corona resistant). Double build is preferrable over single build, but triple or quadruple is even better if it doesn't cost a fortune. Need a 10 # roll if you or anyone else knows where to get any. All the wire manufacturers and major distributors are really flaky - never respond to quote requests.

Can't help with kapton wire, but if you scroll to the bottom of the link for the description, you'll likely get a bit closer to answers:https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...dlwire.phpwith a mil-spec code, you should be able to find wire that meets or possibly exceeds your requirements, for less than aviation prices. ($500 is what is said to be found in the seat cushions of small aircraft, and a cappuccino machine for a Gulfstream is $10 grand)

[Alstrup]

Hello.
Bringing up the subject from page 104 regarding problems with arching between the diodes. I now - think - I have found the issue. I tried to install the entire system on a more or less stock engine and fired it up. Made some low to mid rpm pulls with maximum load and cylinder pressure. Here nothing happens exept from a crispier throttle response and a hairwith better power. My hunch is now back to the 20KV diodes being on overload with a high comnpression engine. A simple math with Bmep versus average ignition power requirements suggests the same, but I´m not sure it is that simple a calculation.
However, I searced a little, and it looks like it is possible to get some 40 KV 3 amp diodes/rectifiers like these http://www.setecelectron.com/product...p?selectId=649 Do you guys think that will be worth a try or am I on my way out on a tangent?

Best regards
Torben

[Aaron Murakami]

Hello.
Bringing up the subject from page 104 regarding problems with arching between the diodes. I now - think - I have found the issue. I tried to install the entire system on a more or less stock engine and fired it up. Made some low to mid rpm pulls with maximum load and cylinder pressure. Here nothing happens exept from a crispier throttle response and a hairwith better power. My hunch is now back to the 20KV diodes being on overload with a high comnpression engine. A simple math with Bmep versus average ignition power requirements suggests the same, but I´m not sure it is that simple a calculation.
However, I searced a little, and it looks like it is possible to get some 40 KV 3 amp diodes/rectifiers like these http://www.setecelectron.com/product...p?selectId=649 Do you guys think that will be worth a try or am I on my way out on a tangent?

Best regards
Torben

Those diodes are good - used to use the CL2 series diodes a lot in the past - even back when they were $25 a piece! I'd search ebay for 3amp hv diodes to see more options.

[heysoundude]

Hi,I have a subaru too (waste spark) and I have tried the sparkamp x40 High Performance Ignition Systems > Ignition Kitsbut at this time I didn't retarded ignition timing so the change was not as it could have beenI am curious about the method for retarding ignition timing, maybe efie (cts, maf, o2, ???)

Close: MAP sensor adjustment. EFIE is what adjusts the signal from o2 sensors back into normal range after better combustion makes for higher oxygen content in exhaust, and would've helped with mileage.Truthfully, you need both for a proper, full optimization, because an ECU is programmed to work very hard (and given ridiculous tools to aid itself) to hit 14.7:1

[heysoundude]

Aaron or any other forum membersA couple of questions:I came across a sparkplug by Pulstar (Pulstar :: The world's best, most powerful sparkplug.) that has a capacitor built into the plug. Could this be used in addition to a capacitor on the coil circuit....ie...CDI circuit? My caddy has two Ignition Coil Packs (with separate coils for each plug)....I don't think I will be able to use your Plasma circuit because of this, and am wondering if these capacitor spark plugs would still be usable to increase the strength of the spark (similar to your approach in Chapt 3 of your book....just has capacitor built into plug).Also, my perception is that the plasma effect cannot be obtained with resistor plugs....am I correct that if resistor plugs and plug wires are removed, it will screw up the radio/electronics that are emf sensitive?Because my caddy uses coil packs and Street Fire said they don't make a CDI unit for my car, I am doubtful as to whether plasma effect can be achieved using your methods. Would I be gaining ground if I can figure out a way to put a large capacitor and diode string in the circuit for each coil in the coil pack (in place of a CDI unit)? If so, what size capacitor would be recommended? If I used this approach, would the Pulstar capacitor spark plugs coupled with the in circuit capacitor increase the spark/plasma at the plug tip, or would they interfere with each other? Any thoughts or suggestions if this "plan B" approach is used on newer vehicles?Jody

Plan B is what needs to be worked on, because it's getting tougher to find cars with carburetors and Distributors.You're on the right path with realizing each of your Caddy's coil packs are a primary AND secondary with terminals to two cylinders. The first trick is to determine how to apply the diode, the second is to shorten that energy delivery to the primary (duty cycle/energy under the curve...) without burning it out.

[RB176]

Will a coil with a 3.0 ohm internal ballast work for plasma or does it have to much resistance? I am using a Pertronix Flame Thrower1 with Granatelli wires.

[Aaron Murakami]

coil

Will a coil with a 3.0 ohm internal ballast work for plasma or does it have to much resistance? I am using a Pertronix Flame Thrower1 with Granatelli wires.

Can you post a link to your coin on Pertronix's own website?

[RB176]

http://www.jegs.com/i/Pertronix/751/40611/10002/-1

[Gary Hammond]

I use a MSD 8222 High Vibration Blaster Coil with mine and it works great! It has only .7 ohms resistance. Here's the link. https://www.jegs.com/i/MSD-Ignition/121/8222/10002/-1

[RB176]

Pertronix claims you need a 3.0 ohm coil for 4 cylinders or less. Place I bought it from said the same thing but there not using it for what we’re doing either. I also have a Pertronix Ignitor I magnetic pickup sensor also. I ran the coil and sensor and it’s working fine. Next step is to hook up msd street fire and diode up. Again my main concern would be either to much resistance and not achieving plasma or burning something up.

[Aaron Murakami]

Pertronix claims you need a 3.0 ohm coil for 4 cylinders or less. Place I bought it from said the same thing but there not using it for what we’re doing either. I also have a Pertronix Ignitor I magnetic pickup sensor also. I ran the coil and sensor and it’s working fine. Next step is to hook up msd street fire and diode up. Again my main concern would be either to much resistance and not achieving plasma or burning something up.

The most common coil I have used is the Flame Thrower III https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...SIN=B002Q363XM

3 ohms itself should be an issue. I can make the plasma with a few hundred ohms in the line. However, the coil you have I do not believe is suitable for capacitive discharge but the Flame Thrower III is. See the specs below:


Pertronix Flame Thrower III coils are an ultra low resistance (0.32 ohms) 45,000-volt coil. Thet were engineered to charge to peak current typically 30-70% faster the other coils. This means maximum spark energy is sustained to higher engine RPM. Flame Thrower III coils are compatible with both the Ignitor II and Ignitor III electronics. They are available in both chrome and black finish for that "stock look".
Pertronix Flame-Thrower III Coils Features: 45,000 volts

Ultra Low 0.32 primary resistance
Compatible with Ignitor II and III systems as well as most capacitive discharge boxes.

Charges to peak current typically 30-70% faster than other coils.
Rapid charge time means maximum spark energy is sustained to higher engine RPM
Legal in all 50 states and Canada. (C.A.R.B. E.O. #D-57-10)




If your budget allows it, this coil is a BEAST: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...SIN=B0006302P4

That's what I got for my high voltage N machine experiments. I had it on my Datsun pickup for a while, but I didn't want $200 sitting there looking pretty so I put a Flame Thrower III on it. As a side note, this MSD coil would be incredible for Tesla experiments, getting it into resonance would shoot some serious fire.

It only has 0.016 ohms on the primary!!!

MSD

Red

3

.250 mH

45,000 Volts

2 Amps

.016 OHMs

Coil

30 OHMs

150 uS

70:1

Drag Race / Long Duration Use

3.75 lbs.

8261

[RB176]

Thanks Aaron and Gary, I already picked up a Flamethrower III now so I should be in good shape. On another note how well have the diodes (Prhv2a-20) you’ve been using holding up? I bought a few extras just incase of problems.