Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

[firozmusthafa]

Just as a follow up of my torque master plug experience, torque master plug which I received had 4.3k resistor in it which prevents plasma, which disappointed me. when I talked to Daniel Diaz (torque master) he said that all torque master plugs comes with flexible resistor to overcome EPA regulation. This resistor is designed in such a way that when it runs for 200 to 1000km it breaks down and acts like a non resistor. When I tested after driving for 70km I noticed that resistance decreased from 4.3k to 3.4k. Will test again after completing 1000km.
One thing I noticed with Torque master plug is it is impossible to foul up the spark plug regardless of how much rich mixture is used. I even tried opening the choke for 1 minute, usually with 1 minute of choke, plug will be covered with thick black soot. But torque master still remained spotless even with the presence of resistor.
Because of the absence of plasma, there is definitely some reduction in power, but combustion is way better than all spark plugs I have tested till date(ngk, champion, bosch, iridium ngk, Takai non resistor iridium and cheap Chinese non resistor plug)
When I discussed with Daniel Diaz, he mentioned that if demand is high for tungsten non resistor plugs, he is willing to manufacture non resistor tungsten torque master plugs.

[Aaron Murakami]

Just as a follow up of my torque master plug experience, torque master plug which I received had 4.3k resistor in it which prevents plasma, which disappointed me. when I talked to Daniel Diaz (torque master) he said that all torque master plugs comes with flexible resistor to overcome EPA regulation. This resistor is designed in such a way that when it runs for 200 to 1000km it breaks down and acts like a non resistor. When I tested after driving for 70km I noticed that resistance decreased from 4.3k to 3.4k. Will test again after completing 1000km.
One thing I noticed with Torque master plug is it is impossible to foul up the spark plug regardless of how much rich mixture is used. I even tried opening the choke for 1 minute, usually with 1 minute of choke, plug will be covered with thick black soot. But torque master still remained spotless even with the presence of resistor.
Because of the absence of plasma, there is definitely some reduction in power, but combustion is way better than all spark plugs I have tested till date(ngk, champion, bosch, iridium ngk, Takai non resistor iridium and cheap Chinese non resistor plug)
When I discussed with Daniel Diaz, he mentioned that if demand is high for tungsten non resistor plugs, he is willing to manufacture non resistor tungsten torque master plugs.

Hi Firoz, great to see you in here. I didn't post your last couple updates because I went out of town.

Even with tungsten, I don't believe they will hold up long term to the plasma. The entire geometry needs to be changed.

This is the kind of igniter the plasma is intended to be used with but I don't know know anyone who has done this. Small recessed cavity in end of plug where the plasma detonates and it shoots out like a jet. I have the pic in the Ignition Secrets book and video presentation.



I've tried this with off the shelf non-foulers but the cavity is too big but anyone should be able to weld some material in the non-fouler to take up space. They look like this - could be put on end of non-resistor plug and with cavity filled to make it smaller, could work well as a plasma jet igniter:



This is the original preferred method but of course a single plug made that way to begin with.

The Firestorm plug has been tested with the plasma ignition and some reported long life - the patents are expired so it is public domain.

Read this: http://www.hho4free.com/spark%20plug...lasmaplugs.pdf

[heysoundude]

If Torquemaster are willing to make tungsten plugs, it might be worthwhile asking if they'd be willing to make Beryllium Copper plugs. Surely they would buy the supplies if there was a demand for that to be used in place of Stainless or tungsten.
My understanding is that copper is a better conductor than steel or tungsten, so I'd be willing to order a set, if the beryllium gave the plugs a longer service life.

Aaron - you seem to be more versed in the metallurgy than I know myself to be; which of the BeCu alloys from this link (http://beryllium.eu/properties-of-beryllium-alloys/) should be used? your pdf is non-specific, but I'd guess it would be alloy 3 or 10 from what I can tell. maybe the guy at Extreme Spark can enlighten us? Firoz, you've chatted with them...would you be willing to take that on?

I rather like that the wiki page indicates that BeCu is an RFI insulator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_copper

[Aaron Murakami]

If Torquemaster are willing to make tungsten plugs, it might be worthwhile asking if they'd be willing to make Beryllium Copper plugs. Surely they would buy the supplies if there was a demand for that to be used in place of Stainless or tungsten.
My understanding is that copper is a better conductor than steel or tungsten, so I'd be willing to order a set, if the beryllium gave the plugs a longer service life.

Aaron - you seem to be more versed in the metallurgy than I know myself to be; which of the BeCu alloys from this link (http://beryllium.eu/properties-of-beryllium-alloys/) should be used? your pdf is non-specific, but I'd guess it would be alloy 3 or 10 from what I can tell. maybe the guy at Extreme Spark can enlighten us? Firoz, you've chatted with them...would you be willing to take that on?

I rather like that the wiki page indicates that BeCu is an RFI insulator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_copper

I know those people that make the Torquemaster.

No matter what material you use, the geometry is just wrong for a long life plasma plug.

The Firestorm one is the only one proven to last longer than any other geometry but the jet plug still needs to be tested.

[heysoundude]

I know those people that make the Torquemaster.

No matter what material you use, the geometry is just wrong for a long life plasma plug.

The Firestorm one is the only one proven to last longer than any other geometry but the jet plug still needs to be tested.

How is the geometry wrong?
and where can I find proof about the firestorm?

[Gary Hammond]

Hi,

Walt Jenkins' patented plasma ignition plug looks very promising as well.

[Aaron Murakami]

How is the geometry wrong?
and where can I find proof about the firestorm?

The bottom line is if there is a sharp edge, the high speed current impulse will destroy the high potential electrode.

That is one of the primary concerns.



Krupa wanted people to believe the spark plug geometry was responsible for those large plasma blasts you see on the left (right is normal plug), but the truth was that he cap a plasma ignition setup on the plug - the benefit is long lasting plug.

[Aaron Murakami]

That was supposed to be an animated gif but didn't work.

You can see it here: http://www.hho4free.com/images/Fires..._animation.gif

[heysoundude]

definitely looks like it's blowing the ignition plasma energy well into the cylinder compared to "standard" ignition, but what I was looking for is the proof/evidence that it leads to longer plug life.

[Aaron Murakami]

definitely looks like it's blowing the ignition plasma energy well into the cylinder compared to "standard" ignition, but what I was looking for is the proof/evidence that it leads to longer plug life.

You have to go thru the energetic forum posts from 11 years ago from those who made those plugs and tested it.

[firozmusthafa]

I tried running TM plug for 1000kms, still the resistor value did not go down. I am stopping experiments on torque masters and will be continuing with Chinese non resistor spark plug with plasma. I recently tried switching carburetor to a different one (old one was worn off at the vacuum slide port), then I realized that some carburetors are impossible to lean out (because of the needle jet design).

I have ordered stock carburetor from Honda. Waiting for it to continue water injection experiments.

From the conversation I had with Daniel Diaz from torque masters, I understood that he is not a technical guy. So can't expect much from him.

[heysoundude]

I recently tried switching carburetor to a different one (old one was worn off at the vacuum slide port), then I realized that some carburetors are impossible to lean out (because of the needle jet design).

I have ordered stock carburetor from Honda. Waiting for it to continue water injection experiments.

From the conversation I had with Daniel Diaz from torque masters, I understood that he is not a technical guy. So can't expect much from him.

You might give up too quickly:
https://eagle-research.com/product/c...third-edition/
I'm certain it's quite possible with stock/factory equipment and certain add-ons to exceed your expectations

[RB176]

Help please! My Engine has a miss since I have converted over to the new ignition system. I’ve checked and rechecked all my wiring and I’m sure I have no loose connections. I tried a few things out so far, I unplugged the diode and ran it on straight msd and the miss still persists so that rules that out. I’m pretty sure it’s not the coil cause I’m pretty sure they work or they don’t. Going to swap out the plug tomorrow. I’m using everything everyone else is Street Fire 5520, Pertronix III any suggestions what to try. And yes I have Plasma! Any thoughts thanks Jeremiah

[firozmusthafa]

There could be multiple reasons.
Some of the common issues I have faced with my vehicles:
1. I would suspect issue with MSD or trigger coil/pickup coil whichever is applicable.
2. If you have carburetor issues, you also might develop missing
3. vacuum leaks, broken vacuum hose might cause missing as well.
4. Spark plug internal issues could also cause misfiring, take out the plugs individually and inspect plug color as well as center electrode continuity. If there is abnormal color in any of the spark plug, there could be definite issues with ignition.
5. If carburetor is flooding, miss can appear. 6. Loose contacts in ignition coil primary leads could cause missing as well.
7. If air filter is due for replacement, it might cause missing
8. if carburetor return line is blocked carburetor would drink gasoline and could cause a miss.
9. Clogged float chamber vents could cause missing causing vapour locks
10. If fuel injected, MAP/MAF sensors are due for cleaning or replacement
11. Spark plug boots could be leaking sparks to the wells
12. Inlet valve leakage causes missing
13. Rfi interference from spark plug wires could cause interference with ECU in rare cases

There could be more reasons which I have not covered. So far these are the reasons I have encountered in my 12 years of experience with my own vehicles

[RB176]

Here’s an update, I disconnected the msd and swapped out the coil. I also checked the plug which had significant wear so replaced that to. I then ran it on straight magnetic pickup and it ran fine, so I at lease know the trigger is good. Now I’m to hook back up the msd and run it again and see what happens.