Device and method of a back emf permanent electromagnetic motor generator

[brodonh]

Originally Posted by brodonh
Hi Faraday88,

It can be switched magnetically with no electronics.

One has to add an iron magnetic shorting bar and also, reverse the polarity of the magnet between the iron bars.

The rotor will be alternately attracted to the bars or repelled when the shorting bar closes and opens the magnetic circuit.

I just learned this while studying the posts in the old Yahoo window motor group.

John B discovered this by accident when an iron bar fell across the iron bars and shorted the magnetic circuit during frame assembly.

bro d


ONE HAS TO ADD AN IRON MAGNETIC SHORTING BAR

Refer to picture on the front page of the patent.
To add a magnetic shorting bar, take another piece of iron and lay it in a perpendicular manner across the iron poles, somewhere between the magnet on the left and the ends of the pole pieces where the rotor passes through.
This will short the magnetic circuit. No coils involved with this mag cct shorting.

Normally when a rotor magnet approaches the iron poles it will be attracted to the iron AND by the opposite mag poles.

When you lay the shorting bar across the iron poles the approaching magnet will not be attracted by the opposite poles but to the iron only, because the mag cct is shorted.


REVERSE THE POLARITY OF THE MAGNET (#21 in the patent pic) BETWEEN THE IRON BARS.


We also reverse the poles of the magnet on the left, in the picture, between the iron bars and then the approaching rotor magnet is repelled unless the shorting bar is across the iron bars.

With the shorting bar across the poles. the approaching rotor mag will be attrached to the iron.

When the moving rotor magnet is between the bars we lift the shorting bar and the rotor magnet is repelled.
John B suggested that we could find a method to place and lift the shorting bar as needed for motor action.

This is easy to see for your self by arranging mags and iron like the patent pic without a rotor and just approach the open end of the iron poles with a magnet that simulates an approaching rotor mag.

Enjoy,

bro d

[brodonh]

Hi All,

I have a machine now that is an attempt to build according to the patent.

It runs but is seems that the coils are not up to the task of fully repelling the rotor mags.

I have to raise the voltage to over 40v for it to sustain rotation and of course the tranny's have a heat problem.

With this build a larger and heavier rotor with stronger coils should run well.

Have to learn the personality of the beast. Would like to know how to scale it up, so I started a little larger than "toy".

The rotor is very light and of wood. One has to find the right combination of rotor mass, coil strength, both the rotor and pole mags and iron dimensions.

Keepin' on.

bro d

[Faraday88]

Hi Bro d,
I'm confused... are you saying that there is shorting Iron bar apart from the Permanent Magnet (at the extreme end, and the other end is where the rotor Magnets are aligned ),
where is this shorting iron bar mentioned in the Patent.
please illustrate by way of your diagram..
I have attached a picture of one of my previous attempt of replication of this Patent.

Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Hi Bro d,
I'm confused... are you saying that there is shorting Iron bar apart from the Permanent Magnet (at the extreme end, and the other end is where the rotor Magnets are aligned ),
where is this shorting iron bar mentioned in the Patent.
please illustrate by way of your diagram..
I have attached a picture of one of my previous attempt of replication of this Patent.
I stopped as could not arrange for a Hall Switch, which is a must in the switching topology shown in the patent.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[erfinder]

I have built two of these machines, the first in accordance with what described in the patent text to the best of my ability. Like many I did a few things that will recieve a frown, however, we should be judged by our effort, and not by how well we follow instructions. The second was built based on what I distilled out of the patent, lessons learned from the first build, "his" demonstration of this principle, and other information on the net which I believe is related to this technique. The second machine is in my opinion a better visual aid for it demonstrates, at least in my opinion, why the monopole configuration was selected for this setup, it must be stated that this is my opinion, my interpretation. Since I had no real information to go by, one may assume that all work completed was based on pure speculation on my part. I couldn't understand (still don't) why and how one could take advantage of the monopole configuration in the device shown in the patent, or any of the other machines for that matter (specifically the SG) prior to this patent being brought to my attention. What I have found is that all of the things that we deem important when designing and constructing these machines isn't important. That which we overlook, ignore, or just aren't aware of, those are the important things!

The use of the monopole configuration puts us in a unique situation, half of the generated wave is for lack of a better way of putting it, "phase shifted" so that it has no negative impact on the system. Now the scope tells a different story, when we look at the waveform generated by a monopole machine, the wave appears to be a very clean sine wave. Its here where we have to open our eyes! We know the wave isn't supposed to be a sine, and yet it is, we must make the necessary changes to the geometry so that the output waveform becomes a true representation of the magnetic configuration of the inducing magnets. We were instructed (see attached) as to how the wave should look, the devices which generated these waves were old DC generators, that implies that the makers of those generators knew something that we have long forgotten. Show me a device that generates this kind of wave form!

As far as the magnetic switching mechanism, that's covered pretty much in the Flynn parallel path technology. The problem there is the requirement of physical connection and separation, there maybe a way around that limitation, but I haven't seen it yet...

Lets produce this wave in our machines that was suggested in the Bedini Free Energy Generation book.

Regards

[Faraday88]

I agree with much of what you are talking about, but you have not answered on the presence of the 3rd shorting Iron bar (is it in the middle..?) Flynn Parallel path technology..n
how does that co-relate here in this Patent.
This Patent is clearly a Motor in one pulse and an Energizer in the next, yes as far as the Geometry goes.. look for the one which caters both the functions... i have wound the coils that way..
if you closely observe ..the third winding coil does a dual function..1) its a part of the Trifilar combination 2) it feeds an out put Battery with just a single Diode when external battery charging is a need. the Bridge module is for feeding the Power back into the source Battery.(G-Field Style)
The Torque is severe unlike the Monopole SG. (look at the speed reduction gears shown in the FEG pictures),
the Monopole is a Speed Motor..
This one is a Torque Motor...
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[erfinder]

Faraday88,

Do you have skype?

[erfinder]

Faraday88,

I think this device is a Mag Amp, control winding regulates AC output, and functions as motor. Being clever, a non destructive generator function (G-Field) was incorporated, making it a mag amp in the true sense where the DC bias is used to regulate the AC output of the generator. So one could be bold and say that this is a "Self exciting Mag Amplifer Motor/Generator". This device is one of the most well thought out machines that I have ever had the pleasure of trying to understand!

Motor probably isn't the best term, I would call it a stable prime mover for a generator. The torque that it is capable of generating is for overcoming the magnetic lock. In the Bedini patent, there is no "3rd" shorting iron bar, I only mentioned the Flynn device as it relates to pure magnetic switching, it is related to this patent, however, his (Flynn) approach makes the underlying principles much too difficult to comprehend, and he has made making the connection to the Mag Amp impossible.

I recommend you look at the (Bedini) patent again after you have studied the operating principles of magnetic amplifiers. After studying, try and find the DC control winding in the patent illustrations. You will see that the control coil(s) are the motor coils. Mag Amps regulate AC....here, the AC which is to be regulated, is generated in the very the machine that is going to be doing the regulating! That being said, one has to ensure that the motor and generator coils are non inductive, meaning like in the magnetic amplifier, there is no induction between the motor and generator coils.

Its a twisted awesome world that the designer of this thing lives in! I really don't think anyone knows what they are being shown! We are being shown everything, we aren't being told everything. The images (patent figures, scope shots, book images) are screaming truth at us but we don't see it. We choose to lack the vision. Owing to this lack of vision, we will not penetrate and master the the meaning of "increasing the reactive cross section" which is the key to getting more out of this design topology.

Vision....get it back, without it we are just chasing a phantom!


Regards

[brodonh]

Hi Faraday88,
When using the shorting bar there are no coils,

no electrical circuit,

no electrical input.

There is a rotor with magnets,

iron pole pieces,

magnet between the iron pole pieces

and an iron shorting bar.

Use the picture in the patent to visualize this.

In your picture:
Remove the coils.
Use a piece of iron similar in girth to your pole pieces ( they are iron, are they not?) and review previous posts.

I'm not an expert nor am I the school master.

This thread is to simply share what I'm doing.

Others posters can have at it as they will.

bro d

[Faraday88]

Faraday88,

I think this device is a Mag Amp, control winding regulates AC output, and functions as motor. Being clever, a non destructive generator function (G-Field) was incorporated, making it a mag amp in the true sense where the DC bias is used to regulate the AC output of the generator. So one could be bold and say that this is a "Self exciting Mag Amplifer Motor/Generator". This device is one of the most well thought out machines that I have ever had the pleasure of trying to understand!

Motor probably isn't the best term, I would call it a stable prime mover for a generator. The torque that it is capable of generating is for overcoming the magnetic lock. In the Bedini patent, there is no "3rd" shorting iron bar, I only mentioned the Flynn device as it relates to pure magnetic switching, it is related to this patent, however, his (Flynn) approach makes the underlying principles much too difficult to comprehend, and he has made making the connection to the Mag Amp impossible.

I recommend you look at the (Bedini) patent again after you have studied the operating principles of magnetic amplifiers. After studying, try and find the DC control winding in the patent illustrations. You will see that the control coil(s) are the motor coils. Mag Amps regulate AC....here, the AC which is to be regulated, is generated in the very the machine that is going to be doing the regulating! That being said, one has to ensure that the motor and generator coils are non inductive, meaning like in the magnetic amplifier, there is no induction between the motor and generator coils.

Its a twisted awesome world that the designer of this thing lives in! I really don't think anyone knows what they are being shown! We are being shown everything, we aren't being told everything. The images (patent figures, scope shots, book images) are screaming truth at us but we don't see it. We choose to lack the vision. Owing to this lack of vision, we will not penetrate and master the the meaning of "increasing the reactive cross section" which is the key to getting more out of this design topology.

Vision....get it back, without it we are just chasing a phantom!


Regards

Hi erfinder,
I'm impressed with your insight on the Mag Amp perspective.. but i reserve my thought on the speculation aspect on this patent, since i am blessed with good degree of intuitive speculation (i do'nt mean you are not), I have studied JB very closely (7-8 years now), all these patents are one and the same But shaped or altered to cater a specific need...if you observe Pat 6,545,444 it is again another embodiment of the G-field.. JB researched the G-Field in his younger days (1970's) He later gets it to the SG design to include a the 'SPEED MOTOR' as The G-Field does not require Torque UNDER LOAD..this is one type of the energizer that we are talking about.
The Present Patent under discussion is in a way self fed and inverted to get Torque out of the Speed, yes its a Ping pong effect in action.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[brodonh]

vid

http://rpmgt.org/MagnetMotorPat7109671.wmv

John B's build

bro d

[erfinder]

vid

http://rpmgt.org/MagnetMotorPat7109671.wmv

John B's build

bro d

What I see is a battery powered device setup like in the patent. I saw one transistor so it could be operating on the SG circuit, open to discussion. I ran my first tests using the SG circuit for simplicity sake, then moved to something better suited. It appears (no way of knowing for sure) that the FWBR is connected like in the patent, the bridge feeds a cap (value unknown). The cap is then discharged into a 7.5W 125V incandescent lamp via a micro switch.

I built this machine, (see attached image....built it using what many will say are the wrong magnets....see link) and know now that what we see here in this video isn't all there is to this machine, hell the patent makes that clear. When you read the patent we are led to believe that this is it! I have no doubt about that! This device according to the patent shows us how to tap the heretofore untapped potential which surrounds a power EMF circuit. The patent tells us that there is an enormous potential in the space around our circuit, some 10^13 times as great as that which we use to drive the circuit!!! My focus is on the mechanism which enables one to tap into that 10^13... the mechanism is also mentioned in the patent.

So I repeat...it is my opinion that the device in that video is not limited that which was demonstrated. There is far more going on.

Regards

[Faraday88]

Hi erfinder,
Yes i'm in line with you, certainly there is indeed more than what is shown, but never the less what is shown is also significant proof of principle to the claims.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[brodonh]

Hi All,
Got my 2nd iteration running.
My coils are 525turns of #22 wire.
The mags in my rotor are 3/4" X 1"D (too strong for both builds)
The iron is 1/2"sq with the added small pieces
I backed the rotor away from the iron bars enough for it to run at 24v and it is still sluggish.
In my thinking, it seemed that the motor would run without the Magnet (#21 in patent) between the pole pieces and it will.

Is the only purpose of that magnet to make the rotor attraction stronger?

I'm thinking that coils that will produce a violent repulsion of rotor mags at low voltage would be ideal.
Then one would have to deal with spike voltage that is very high.
I suspect that John B's engineering skills have lead him to know the most efficient relationships including the math.

So........we want:
Max repulsion of mag rotor at minimum power input.
Rotor size and weight for best efficiency in relation to coil effectiveness.
Mag strength (rotor and #21) for max attraction/max repulsion.
Gen coil size could be different than pwr coil depending on desired application.

I've got to get more acquainted with coil "engineering".

Thanks for the pic, Erfinder. What did you see regarding torque?

John seems to have enough to accelerate under load of his geared down pulleys.

Thanks for all the input.

bro d

[brodonh]

Hi All,

I've reduced the mag strength of the rotor mags by 1/3 and used 2 of my trifilar #22 winding for the pwr winding for freer amp flow.

Running it on 18v, 150ma and it runs much better. The gen winding goes into a FWBR and then to a comparator cap pulser with 2, 15,000uF caps. It is pulsing a battery at 19v every 2.25sec.

Very little torque. A single coil multistrand SSG bike wheel has much more torque.

My build is very imprecise but it is good to get acquainted with the "personality" of the patent concept.

The patent cct is a half B/C and I'm using mjl trannys with a pot in addition to the 1k resistor going into the base of the small PNP.

No heat with my amp draw at 18v.

I expect to let it run all night and see what we have in the AM.

Perhaps Mr Bedini could chime in with some tips for scaling up and heading us toward max efficiency.

thanks,


bro d