Device and method of a back emf permanent electromagnetic motor generator

[brodonh]

Hi All,

I've reduced the mag strength of the rotor mags by 1/3 and used 2 of my trifilar #22 winding for the pwr winding for freer amp flow.

Running it on 18v, 150ma and it runs much better. The gen winding goes into a FWBR and then to a comparator cap pulser with 2, 15,000uF caps. It is pulsing a battery at 19v every 2.25sec.

Very little torque. A single coil multistrand SSG bike wheel has much more torque.

My build is very imprecise but it is good to get acquainted with the "personality" of the patent concept.

The patent cct is a half B/C and I'm using mjl trannys with a pot in addition to the 1k resistor going into the base of the small PNP.

No heat with my amp draw at 18v.

I expect to let it run all night and see what we have in the AM.

Perhaps Mr Bedini could chime in with some tips for scaling up and heading us toward max efficiency.

thanks,


bro d

Hi All,

Was able to free up the shaft a little (still have grease in the bearings) she's doing 600+rpm. 6"D rotor with 6, 1/2" X 1"D mags.
The voltage input of18v and the 3/4" plywood rotor ( i have 1/4" space in between mags that are mounted in the rotor, at each of the 6 locations) are a good match. Have to play with the timing of the hall mags. I'm using .25" neo cylinders and needed to back the hall off about 1/2" inch away from the mags to get desirable coverage. I'll post a pic when I like the consistent results of this build.
It is pine, sheet rock screws and super glue, so feel free to point and laugh when the pic is up.

bro d

[brodonh]

"It is pine, sheet rock screws and super glue, so feel free to point and laugh when the pic is up."

bro d


http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/br...tml?sort=3&o=0

[erfinder]

"It is pine, sheet rock screws and super glue, so feel free to point and laugh when the pic is up."

bro d


http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/br...tml?sort=3&o=0

Very nice build! Nice and neat! To answer your question, the torque in my machine is enough to overcome the magnetic locking, mine isn't a torque producer. She runs real smooth. I'll set it back up and do a video eventually.

Regards

[brodonh]

Hi Erfinder,

We seem to have the same results regarding torque.

When I check the coils for repulsion, slowly, they seem to release the rotor, more so than pushing it.

Also, it doesn't seem that John B is looking to produce energy from breaking the mag lock.

In that case one would want the gap on both sides to be very close. In the vid his gaps seem to be as much as 1/8".

I would like to make the coil strength much greater and try for better repulsion.

Thanks for your response,

bro d

[brodonh]

Hi All,

I've replaced the rotor with mdf and also the bearing holders.

I added an SS shaft and AL collars to eliminate component travel on the shaft

We're running at 24.7v and about 200ma.

Charging 2, 12v batts in parallel while running off of 2, 12v batts in series.

The gen winding is feeding a comparator pulser which is firing at 22v, once per second.

There are no heat issues with the entire setup. No heat sinks on the half B/C.

It runs presently at close to 1000rpm.

I watched it for the last 1/2hr and the run batts were increasing in voltage.

I doubt that it will continue to do so.

We'll leave it run with a 3A fuse for protection over night and report the AM results.

bro d

[Tom C]

Don,

please keep us up to speed on your build it is very interesting.

Tom C

[brodonh]

Hi Tom and All,

Before the run battery began to increase in voltage I had decreased the amp draw.

This caused the voltage to rise some.

It continued to increase for quite some time and I thought that it might keep going up.

By the AM it was down .2v.

It seems to me that cap voltage rising and then dropping with the pulse in the comparator, affects the whole sytem and that it should have a positive effect on the run battery along with the energy that is returned from the 1/2 B/C cct.

When the comparator pulser fires the run battery drops and then rebuilds, with the caps, for the next pulse. Mirrors the charge battery.

Question: Does the sudden drop in the run batt make "space" for nature to fill with energy like it does when a pulse is turned off in a coil?

Perhaps John B has considered this ? beforehand.

These motors run smooth and can go fast. Very little torque, so far. I would like John B to reccommend general coil specs for max output.

Stronger pwr coils need more amps....bigger wire and tighter winding radius. Would it be better to wind the gen coil after the pwr winding?

It is interesting to consider that if John B didn't give us the SSG then we could have developed this machine instead.

The Aussie fires are in my prayers,

bro d

[RS_]

Don,

this motor is not going to have much torque, and JP suggested to use a off the shelf switched reluctance motor with the B/C circuit driving it, if you want torque, or build a window motor.......

this is the first thing of Bedinis that i built when i started... was destroyed in the fire......

"When the comparator pulser fires the run battery drops and then rebuilds, with the caps, for the next pulse. Mirrors the charge battery."

The higher V run bank is draining through the FWBR across the drive winding, and cap pulser Mosfet to the lower V charge battery during the times that the 1/2 B/C circuit fires during the cap discharge pulse......

You need to use the Full patent cap pulser, with a small pre cap directly across the FWBR to catch any motor pulses that happen during the cap discharge pulse when the Normally On mosfet is Off, isolating the motor driver side from the cap pulser side during the cap discharge.......

you should have a FWBR across the drive winding, and another FWBR across any genny/pickup strand that's co wound with the drive strand, into the same cap bank, will fill up 2 X faster....

then make another pair of stator coils on the other side of the rotor, and use them as a Konehead shorted genny coil setup into a cap pulser, to back pop the run battery....... I think that if you get the timing right, that doing this will speed up the rotor because of the Hi V ringing kick back effect on the rotor.......... and keep the run battery charged......

[RS_]

Is the only purpose of that magnet to make the rotor attraction stronger?


The magnet between the 2 iron bars back end, puts a magnetic bias on the iron bars that put's the bar's in a different part of their magnetic hysteresis curve, so that when the drive winding is energized, it is starting in a non neutral spot on the curve, and has to drive the core to a different spot on it's hysteresis curve, that is farther along from saturation of the core so that the magnetic field of the drive coil has to be bigger than normal, as it has to push back the magnets field too. Then when the bigger field collapse's, the magnet's field rushes back through the iron bars, momentarily magnetically saturating them, and thus reinforcing and intensifying the back Spike that we are collecting into the capture cap....... This pushing back a magnet's magnetic field and pinching it off, with a electromagnetic field, is kinda like slowly pushing down real hard on a spring, pulling a trigger letting it go, and then it springs back really, really fast, and extends it's self farther in length, as it oscillates back and forth, back to the length, or point on the hysteresis curve it started at.............

Iron core magnetic Saturation, means Full current flow limited by the wire resistance only, VS, resistance + reactance/impedance of the core in a non magnetically Saturated core, at any given frequency the back spike is oscillating at, while filling the capture cap during the saturation.....

The Magnet's super fast rebound field speed through the core, and the coil windings, make the Spike really High in Voltage, and V x I means a LOT of energy went into the capture cap......

[brodonh]

Thanks RS,

Plenty of valuable info.

Did you use 2 same size windings for pwr and gen?

Wound together or one after the other?

Thanks for the great input!

bro d

[RS_]

Don,

I would use a larger size wire for any pickup strands that are co wound with the drive strand like the SG- cap pulsers, or this motor with a cap pulser. Do not twist the strands together on coils that are going to use the B/C circuit, where you want to twest the strands that use the SG or SSG circuits...... It looks like you have enough room to add another pick up strand behind the main coil too........


on a genny coil using the Konehead coil shorting setup, larger wire size works better, less resistance..... if you can get something like 40 to 80 V peaks on the genny coil, and you short that coil right at the peak, it will ring at 200 to 300 V +, and will fill the cap really fast...... study Kone's coil shorting info on the EV Gray site, and Kones web site...........

[brodonh]

Hi RS and all,

I combined the 2 bridges and the charging increased.

The amp draw increased .2A also.

I'll study Kone's coil shorting info. I've duped some of his RV things before and have found him to be a very giving man.

Thanks again for the input.

bro d

[Faraday88]

Hi All,

Mr Bedini, would you be willing to give a little building info on this?

US 6,392,370 B1
May 21, 2002

US 7,109,671 B2
Sep. 19, 2006

Don't know of any researchers that have built from these patents.

The patents invite one into COP>1.

I would like to know the recommended pole piece material and pole magnet type.

I can speculate that cast iron and stacked ceramic mags would work.

Why has little if any attention been given to building from these patents?

Would greatly appreciate any help and info.

Also please correct me if I'm demonstrating gross ignorance.

bro d

We shall soon see a product based on the Patent #US 7,109,671 B2
Sep. 19, 2006 this will mind boggle very body since it can charge batteries in the Lunar Intensity to full Charge. this patent claims to charge a battery of Voltage higher by a very low Voltage input as low as 0.7V!!!!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Bradley Malone]

I know this thread is from last year, But i have a few questions for anyone that may know.

#1 does anybody know if there is significance to the way the coils are depicted...mostly the bottom one. the top coil is depicted as a normal bifilar coil, But the bottom being split the way it is just seems weird to me.

#2 has anybody had any success with a build of this? I have one I just built and it works nicely and "half way" testing a few quick things i was able to get some pretty high efficiencies. nothing OU but I am working up some ideas now so wanted input before I move foreward. I will be making a new thread to show everything soon.

[Faraday88]

vid

http://rpmgt.org/MagnetMotorPat7109671.wmv

John B's build

bro d

Hi Brod,
Where did you get this video from.. the people in the background is Peter lindemann and........??? any guess??
Rgds,
Faraday88.