Bedini Solar

[Coye]

Been working on this --

solar panel ~~> window motor ~~> Bedini wheel

characteristics:
solar panel 15 watt 1 amp
window motor 4 transistor circuit
Bedini wheel 8 transistor circuit

The upshot was to keep the run battery of the Bedini wheel charged.
Hence the window motor. But the window motor needed a power supply,
and so -- the solar panel.

This is an ongoing project. I have been experimenting with capacitor
sizes. The idea is, charge the capacitor, run the window motor from
the capacitor, keep the Bedini wheel run battery charged.

The solar panel responds to a LED light bulb placed inside a reflective fixture, which
is plugged into the wall.

Somewhere in all this is a place for a 6 volt ignition coil.

- Coye

[Tom C]

Coye,

so can you put up a couple of pics? not sure why you are putting the window motor in between the panel and the SG...(window motor=mechanical work sg=battery charging) are you seeing gains out of the window motor? like 15 watts in 30 watts out? please explain a bit more, very interested. unless you are using the tiny window motor from R charge, then you have is solar panel-little SG-bigger SG, in this case I understand.

tom C

Tom C

[Coye]

Coye,

so can you put up a couple of pics? not sure why you are putting the window motor in between the panel and the SG...(window motor=mechanical work sg=battery charging) are you seeing gains out of the window motor? like 15 watts in 30 watts out? please explain a bit more, very interested. unless you are using the tiny window motor from R charge, then you have is solar panel-little SG-bigger SG, in this case I understand.

tom C

Tom C

---

Power from the 15 watt 1 amp solar panel . . .

Arrives to the input side of the Window Motor . . .
( represented here by the led assembly attached directly to the solar panel, to show
that there is power available )

I have been using a connection between the Window
Motor output and the SG input to keep the run battery charged. This is an improvement
over wall wart/external power supply. It has been working OK to this point. Usual RPM is 120. With one particular capacitor the RPM is of course slower.

A recent test showed the blink rate of the LED assembly to be 66 to 67 times per minute. Magnets are 8 each, neo, oriented nsns.

This is the 8 transistor SG. It is still in the developmental
stages in the sense that the wiring detail still needs to be modified by
losing the clip leads. Its usual RPM is 220. It has a tendency to go into oscillation.
This has raised a number of questions. The rotor is nonlinear, with 19 magnets.

The general idea here is to run the window motor with power derived from solar.
Of course it can't be a direct connection; there will have to be other circuit
components involved. Known and knowable is that the window motor will run
from a capacitor. Known and knowable is that the solar panel will charge
a capacitor. Not yet known, but knowable, is how to continually supply power to a capacitor
so that the window motor will run long enough to charge the SG run battery
after the SG has stopped.

Questions to be answered include how to configure the capacitor.
Output details will have to come later. However previous, estimates have
been as high as 40 watts, as indicated by load handling.

I hope to be using the ignition coil to obtain sharp spikes. Power for the spikes
will come from the window motor at low RPM, maybe. Remains to be seen.

- Coye

[Tom C]

so you are running the Bedini cole circuit for the W/M? I am just trying to understand how the W/M is powering the primary of the SG.... is it a generator winding?

Tom C

[Coye]

so you are running the Bedini cole circuit for the W/M? I am just trying to understand how the W/M is powering the primary of the SG.... is it a generator winding?

Tom C

No, no. The WM could never power the primary of the SG, because its output is a pulsed sharp gradient
spike. Yet this output is not quite the same as the SG. And so, the WM output is suitable
for charging batteries. For example, it charged a 6 volt lantern battery successfully, and it
does very well with 9 volt batteries too. In this setup, the WM output will charge the
run battery of the SG, and this is what I have been using it for. This is desirable for
experimental purposes because it charges the battery more quickly than a conventional
battery charger, ( which uses electricity that we have to pay for ) and does not produce heat on the battery. Plus, after the battery has recovered, it can receive the radiant from the WM, and this is
what batteries like.

The coil is four wires wound together and placed horizontally about the diameter of the rotor, and directed to
four transistorized circuits. I do not know if these circuits are much different
from the SG circuits, or how they compare to the Bedini Cole circuits. It is a 4-filar winding, then.

In contrast to the WM wave form, the SG has an extremely sharp spike that moves up and
down very quickly, goes below the zero and up again, as I now recall. In a word, it needs to be tamed.

So until I come up with something, I am working on the power end of the WM.

With the solar panel, I am replacing a 12 volt, 3 amp power supply. I want to try
and run the WM from the solar panel. Then the goal will be to design and build an appropriate
circuit.

And this is what I have been doing. It is a lot of fun.

Ready for next question.

- Coye

[Tom C]

sorry to be so dense here, but I still do not understand a couple of things...

power to the window motor from the solar panel I get it.

power to the primary side of the SG I get it

I am trying to understand what the output from the window motor is coming from and why its there.... if I have a bedini / cole circuit (the full bipolar circuit) it will charge a cap or a battery, if you are runnning a window motor as an SG with the standard circuit, I understand that, as its output will charge a cap or a battery. I am trying to understand WHY would you put a window motor in series with an SG? the window motor is meant to do work as a prime mover its not neccesarily a battery charger, that is a side effect of its design. unless you are driving a Generator head with it.

my reason for the confusion is that it would be much more efficient to plug your SG right into your solar panel..... unless you are seeing gains out of the window motor. right now you have losses as near as i can tell.

so can you please post the circuit you are driving the window motor with... that will answer my question. and bring more

Tom C

[Coye]

sorry to be so dense here, but I still do not understand a couple of things...

power to the window motor from the solar panel I get it.

power to the primary side of the SG I get it

I am trying to understand what the output from the window motor is coming from and why its there.... if I have a bedini / cole circuit (the full bipolar circuit) it will charge a cap or a battery, if you are runnning a window motor as an SG with the standard circuit, I understand that, as its output will charge a cap or a battery. I am trying to understand WHY would you put a window motor in series with an SG? the window motor is meant to do work as a prime mover its not neccesarily a battery charger, that is a side effect of its design. unless you are driving a Generator head with it.

my reason for the confusion is that it would be much more efficient to plug your SG right into your solar panel..... unless you are seeing gains out of the window motor. right now you have losses as near as i can tell.

so can you please post the circuit you are driving the window motor with... that will answer my question. and bring more

Tom C

_____________________________________________

We learn from answering questions, it is said -- so thank you for this opportunity
to learn more about this subject.

[ WHY would you put a window motor in series with an SG? ]
It is not in series with the SG.
Think set theory -- containing sets, sets, subsets, elements of a set etc.
Disjoint sets, conjoint sets, stuff like that.

The elements of the set we are talking about include:
SSG
WM
SP/solar panel

The window motor and the sg are not in series because they are
disjunct; ie, separated. They are two separate sets of things
assembled together to make up the whole part.

Sort of like the charge battery and the run battery: The two batteries are
separate. They are not the same.

So the window motor is the window motor, and the sg is the sg.
The two assemblies of parts are separate, and are not connected
one to the other in any way whatsoever. Two independent things.
Disjoint.

The possibility exists when conditions require it, that
the sg and the wm become joined. Sort of like on a car, where
when the battery runs low, the alternator is required to kick in
and put a charge to the battery.

The two machines sg and wm are temporarily connected when
the output of the wm is sent to the battery terminals of the sg.
( yet not while the sg is running, with today's technology - the battery
won't charge and discharge at the same time ).

Sort of like a slow, slow, manually operated switching circuit. When the switch is on,
the sg is stopped/not running, and the wm is running,
thus to charge the battery. When the switch is off, the sg can
be running, if another switch is on. But do I digress.


[ my reason for the confusion is that it would be much more efficient to plug your SG right into your solar panel..... unless you are seeing gains out of the window motor. ]

I checked the wave form of a solar panel with oscope recently.
The experimental setup involved a light bulb shining directly onto
the small solar panel. The solar panel did not have a diode, and
was much smaller than the other one.

The wave form was like a sine wave, but angular like a zigzag.
With a second light source, the signal was a small amplitude
sine wave.

Back to this now. The huge solar panel is being shined on by
an led light bulb. Bottom line, the solar panel does
not have the power to connect directly to the sg. At least not
indoors.

In the out of doors, the situation is different. Leaving details out
for now, it is a situation that would need to be monitored and
adjusted in, so that it would be appropriate to the needs of the
sg.

In another experiment lately, I plugged in a so called night light,
and right after that some of the circuit breakers tripped, the
light bulb made a sound, emitted a light phenomenon, and
turned dark. Then all the beepers in all of the uninterruptable power
supplies/UPSs became activated. Something went wrong and it
blew the circuit.

So I hesitate to plug the sg directly into the solar panel, at the
present time, though it may become possible to do so with
modifications in the future.

[ the window motor is meant to do work as a prime mover its not neccesarily a battery charger ]
Like I said earlier, we learn from answering questions. I had not consciously thought
of it in just this way until you first mentioned it. But as I now think about it,
I believe you are exactly right.

[ unless you are seeing gains out of the window motor ]
I have not tested for any gains out of the window motor, if only
because any gains would be in the battery of the sg. It 'seems'
as though the battery becomes stronger with repeated charges
and discharges, however.

[ so can you please post the circuit you are driving the window motor with... that will answer my question ]
It is a 4 transistor sg circuit, in my own opinion. It uses 4 small transistors, and
instead of the ne2s, they might be the size smaller, like ne1.
I will amend this post with some pics of the circuit.

Ready for more questions, whether to clarify or elaborate; just ask.

- Coye

[Tom C]

so what brought about all the questions was your first post:

solar panel ~~> window motor ~~> Bedini wheel

and

I have been using a connection between the Window
Motor output and the SG input to keep the run battery charged. This is an improvement
over wall wart/external power supply. It has been working OK to this point. Usual RPM is 120. With one particular capacitor the RPM is of course slower.



So looked like series to me.

So as far as the solar panel to the SG you can do it with a cap in parallel and the correct diodes on the solar panel. the cap will store unused energy from the panel and capture the spike from the SG. also with the right charge controller you can charge a battery and run the SG (again cap in prallel on the load port of the charge controller) and then just the SG at night.

So please post the circuit you are running the window motor with , it will answer my next question, is it running like an SG. just a scribble will do.

Tom C

[Coye]

Transistors 3055T
Resistors red black red gold; blue body.

- Coye

Note - I would rather defer to JB as to the correct answer to that question.
Then let me know what he says. My answer might be too dangerous.

[Tom C]

so 3 really blurry pics you are running as an SG..... what you have is an SG style circuit running in a window coil, the way a coil works one half needs the north one half the south to run correctly......which is how you have it configured. not a window motor.... you have an SG charging a battery running an SG....

you cannot run a solar panel without blocking diodes. the large solar panels expect you to have them in the inverter or charge controller. the small ones SOMETIMES have them built in but not often. of course the panel must be sized for the load, so you are right that big panel outside would have waay to much current. I have however run my SG off a small 15 watt solar panel and a cap in parallel. so I know it can be done. John K has also done it successfully.

and which question are you referring to?

Tom C

[Coye]

"Is it running like an SG?"
My best answer would have been, not necessarily,
or even worse, it depends. Yet at the same time,
and quite generally, maybe yes. Offer him an
opportunity to clarify if whether the way
it runs is 'like' an 'SG'. Which answer is the correct
one in this specific instance. And offer the kind
hint that it does not squeal while running, like the
one in the DVD. Then put that in front of him
and see what he says.

I need a better camera for this sort of thing, admittedly.

What caught my eye was the size of those resistors --
red black red is 2000, and I looked twice at them
to be sure. But that is indeed a great big coil, and the machine
runs good. The shipping weight was 30 pounds (but free
of cost). For all I know this one was built by JB himself,
or under his supervision. There were no papers that
came with it -- just the machine. I needed it for my
lab as a standard.

- Coye

[Tom C]

you bought that frame and coil from R charge? was it recent? JB had nothing to do with that machine if it was from the R charge website. so just to clear the air here, a true window motor is a hall switched full bipolar circuit driven device, used as a prime mover to drive loads. can it run in SG mode of course. can you switch an SG circuit with a Hall, yes you can, can it be switched with a trigger winding, yes, or even a reed switch or a mag switch. yes there is a DVD version of the one you have that JB ran, it was just a test bed as most of his work is.

this is a window motor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOWLWe9HEMw

this is why I was wondering what you were running, and what circuit was driving it. that machine was squeeling because the coil was in self oscillation because of resistance values, its not supposed to do it as a rule.

If JB wants to chime in here he can, I do not have his ear on a daily basis.

Tom C

[Coye]

In a word, yes. I am happy about it, and
as somebody said, I might take another dozen
just like it. To which I add, agreed, raises the question of exact identity as key to its best potential as a true asset.

What ever it is, it works good, doesn't make a racket or vibrate; ace A #1 workmanship IMHO.

Please tell me more; can this machine be modified to run any faster?
How do you suppose?

Will be back in about 2 hours. Thanks.
Interesting video.

- Coye

[Tom C]

how is the trigger circuit driven? if its done by a standard trigger wire, then change it to a hall with a full bipolar circuit.
Tom C

[Coye]

Update May 10 2014 Saturday

The solar panel inputs to the S3A12;
The S3A12 outputs to battery A, and maintains it at
not less than 12.70 vdc under load to the SG;
The SG outputs to battery B, and battery B receives an increased charge, by voltmeter.

Pictures follow.
- Coye









Help? I need to delete one pic then insert another. Also remove the thumbnail.