4 foot Bedini SG

[why_me]

I will be assembling a 4 foot SG energizer. I ordered one(1) 8 filar coil and the 8 circuit kit. I ordered 24 magnets 6" X 4" X 1" and will either use them north face out or the superpole configuration with 12 pairs. The mounting disc will be solid plywood or some other suitable material. The mounting will be on a 5 foot steel rod that is 2 inches thick. The rod will be held by pillow block bearings mounted on a secured 8" X 8" rough sawn wood support. I will need someone to let me know if the pillow block bearings will need some special oil, or not. The rod will have a pipe flange welded to it for securing the wheel/disc for mechanical turning of a welded sprocket and chain to spin an alternator/PMA for charging a bank of 24 volt batteries to run my off grid inverter set up.

[why_me]

Question: What would be the best magnet numbering for speed? I want as much rpm as possible to turn the other attached components. I plan to supplement the inertia with added weight behind the magnets and along the outer circumference just inside the wheel diameter. The cheapest weight is plain ol' dirt put inside used milk cartons. The card board type with the optional plastic opening that is common today. I could use concrete in the milk cartons but it is costly and corrosive to cardboard. I thought about plastic coffee cans for the containers filled with either material. I have considered bricks behind the magnets and the extra circumference, but it would require some extra bolts, washers and nuts...costly. Even if I could get the bricks to weight match.
I will be cutting the plywood(3/4 inch sheets) into discs(2 4x8 sheets) that are 4 feet with recessed openings to accommodate the magnets. Using construction braces to secure them against centrifugal force.

[Tom C]

1- do not use superpole use regular north, even with those huge magnets, with that said you will not get much torque the SG is not a prime mover, it may not even spin, that coil will not be able to push those magnets away.
2- your plywood will be very heavy, too heavy for a single coil SG. if you insist on doing this you need to remove as much of the weigh as possible by creating spokes in the wood with a jig saw. mass only at the perimeter.
3- did I say it would be too heavy?
4- wrong bearings too much friction, pillow block bearings are notoriously hi friction, better off with a sealed ball bearing, and a smaller solid axle.
5- coil is too small for the magnets you ordered. you need a paint bucket sized coil for that sized magnet and a 13 foot ferris wheel.


Weight only stores inertai input into it thru a prime mover.... the Sg is not a prime mover. you should build a standard SG first and work on scaling up from there. We appreciate the order but you are digging a large hole into which you will be pouring your money on the scale you are trying to build, and want to reduce your misery.

Tom C

[ErikN]

I will be assembling a 4 foot SG energizer. I ordered one(1) 8 filar coil and the 8 circuit kit. I ordered 24 magnets 6" X 4" X 1" and will either use them north face out or the superpole configuration with 12 pairs.

What are the dimensions of the coil you plan to use?
Have you built a bike wheel SG using 7/8x1 7/8x3/8" magnets?

Erik

[why_me]

Too bad. I suppose Forrest will have to abandon his similar project and buy a bicycle wheel for his set up to run. Nobody is telling him that the pillow block bearings he is using will fail his project. He is using the same size magnets and is going to use the same circuits and coils that I purchased from TeslaGenX. Maybe I will watch his thread and see what he does.

How many magnets does he use? 48 in a superpole configuration of 24 sets. Plus the aluminum wheel is much heavier than plywood and If my project will not work then his will not work.

My question to the members is this: How many magnets should be used for maximum speed on any wheel? What is the calculation for spacing on any wheel size to put magnets to produce speed?

To Aaron M.: How much would a coil cost to push a 6" X 4" X 1" magnet? How long would the wires be and what gauge should the wires be?

Will the 8 circuit kit be able to power the wheel that Forrest is building?

How many angry enemies have I just made?

[why_me]

What are the dimensions of the coil you plan to use?
Have you built a bike wheel SG using 7/8x1 7/8x3/8" magnets?

Erik

No. I do not wish to build a smaller version.

[ErikN]

No. I do not wish to build a smaller version.

Why_me

I was not asking if you wish to build a smaller version, but rather was trying to gauge your experience level to determine if I any suggestions from my personal 42" SG would be useful. It appears they will not.

I wish you the best of luck on your build.

Erik

[Tom C]

1- Forest did not ask any of the questions you are asking, he just went and did it! if he did ask questions like you I would have told him the same thing. and you are right it wont work with a single coil for speed at all.
2- the coil and circuit board is designed for a 26 inch Bike wheel based on John's original SG. the wheel and magnets are just a trigger to switch the coil core nothing else, not to run the rotor as a prime mover.
3- no a single 8 transistor board and 1 coil will most likely not power that rotor.
4- Aaron does not manufacture coils and is not part of teslagenx, other than we are good friends and collaborate on projects. JB and Erik are the only ones I know of who have large rotored SG's that charge well.
4- I dont think you have made any enemies, but you should expect honest answers to your questions.

I am more than happy to refund your purchase in full, if you made it in error. please send us an email to sales@teslagenx.com
Tom C

[BobZilla]

Hey why,

You should build a "small one" first my friend, what is wrong with that anyway? I have a little 4 transistor 8 inch wheel that will kick the pants off of most peoples full size machines.

I tell you what, you will be able to drive a small wheel much easier and faster. With a good gear reduction you could get great torque out of a fast flywheel. That is not really the idea though as Tom has said but a little bit of mechanical work can definitely be done.

I also built a big heavy wheel recently, not huge in size but not a bike wheel , it is really heavy duty. I tell you what it introduces a whole new aspect for tuning when you have all that mass to get up too speed. If you have not built a smaller one I think it would be really hard for you to figure out how to get something like you are proposing to work very well.


Anyway I suggest you build a smaller machine but I wish you luck with whatever you decide to work on. Many of the questions you are asking are the very answers you are intended to learn by starting with the basics and the machine will teach you how it runs.

[Tom C]

and just to expand on this 24 magnets and 24 coils is a different question, that is 192 transistors.

Tom C

[why_me]

What are the dimensions of the coil you plan to use?
Have you built a bike wheel SG using 7/8x1 7/8x3/8" magnets?

Erik

Why_me

I was not asking if you wish to build a smaller version, but rather was trying to gauge your experience level to determine if I any suggestions from my personal 42" SG would be useful. It appears they will not.

I wish you the best of luck on your build.

Erik

1- Forest did not ask any of the questions you are asking, he just went and did it! if he did ask questions like you I would have told him the same thing. and you are right it wont work with a single coil for speed at all.
2- the coil and circuit board is designed for a 26 inch Bike wheel based on John's original SG. the wheel and magnets are just a trigger to switch the coil core nothing else, not to run the rotor as a prime mover.
3- no a single 8 transistor board and 1 coil will most likely not power that rotor.
4- Aaron does not manufacture coils and is not part of teslagenx, other than we are good friends and collaborate on projects. JB and Erik are the only ones I know of who have large rotored SG's that charge well.
4- I dont think you have made any enemies, but you should expect honest answers to your questions.

I am more than happy to refund your purchase in full, if you made it in error. please send us an email to sales@teslagenx.com
Tom C

It seems to evoke an emotional response is a measure of who is understanding. I wish to not seem so gruff. The investments I made to make this project work is a lot in money terms. I saw hope in putting this project together with what I have already bought. I do need to make it work and operate so I can have some electricity for my home. I do believe it can work.
Now all that really matters is the logical aspect of doing the build with the parts that I have and what parts have been ordered. The kit and coil has not arrived yet and I was hoping it would be a start. With less than $500.00 a month to live on, I am doing what I can to survive the Constitution Free Zone of my home state. To generate some mechanical energy to supplement a PMA generator will help, if only to power the water pump. Where I live, solar panels would only be making me a target of home invasion. So, a flywheel to generate power inside the shed is the only way to stay off the radar of roving thieves.

I do want your experience, so get mad if you will, no problem, it stimulates adrenaline and makes the blood flow better.

42 inches? nice, maybe 48 would work. I chose 48 because a plywood sheet cut in half is 48 inches and still enough head room to put a coil underneath. Two foot from center. Yeah big magnets, 2 pounds a piece. VERY strong critters.

I have enough room on the steel rod to put up 2 more wheels that would help with moving the entire device.
That would be 8 magnets per wheel. I can save up for more circuits and coils to buy later each month, Lord willing.
My goal is to succeed. I have no other choice.

[BobZilla]

You seem determined to try this so back to your original post

I will be assembling a 4 foot SG energizer. I ordered one(1) 8 filar coil and the 8 circuit kit. I ordered 24 magnets 6" X 4" X 1" and will either use them north face out or the superpole configuration with 12 pairs. The mounting disc will be solid plywood or some other suitable material. The mounting will be on a 5 foot steel rod that is 2 inches thick. The rod will be held by pillow block bearings mounted on a secured 8" X 8" rough sawn wood support. I will need someone to let me know if the pillow block bearings will need some special oil, or not. The rod will have a pipe flange welded to it for securing the wheel/disc for mechanical turning of a welded sprocket and chain to spin an alternator/PMA for charging a bank of 24 volt batteries to run my off grid inverter set up.

A few basic pieces of advice. DO not do the super pole configuration, it is really finicky to tune and the one I built tended to run slower. That may not always be the case but I only built one super pole and that was enough for me to go back to normal mono pole.

I doubt the alternator will spin up fast enough to do any good. What you could do though is mount separate magnet set for a generator coil setup. I say separate just because you could make a much smaller ring of them which would spin faster than the outer diameter of the wheel, you could perhaps just run a coil from the main magnets though. Also with the alternator unless you modify it you need to provide it some juice for the electro magnet inside or it will just spin and not give you any output.

I have enough room on the steel rod to put up 2 more wheels that would help with moving the entire device.
That would be 8 magnets per wheel. I can save up for more circuits and coils to buy later each month, Lord willing.
My goal is to succeed. I have no other choice.

I don't think 8 will be enough for such a large wheel. Generally speaking you want to have enough so that their is a gap between poles but not too much of one, otherwise it will not pull the next magnet in or it won't pull it in fast enough. I was debating adding more to my larger wheel but the problem is if you get them too close you will saturate the core and not have proper switching, there needs to be a Zero field between them. When I was first setting mine up I would run a magnet around the outside and feel the poles pull it in to make sure I had enough space between so like going around it there would be a pull, then nothing, then a pull, then nothing, kind of like invisible humps.

[why_me]

The PMA(permanent magnet alternator) is a wind generator that I mounted to a frame so it can be used inside. It has a tiny fan that blows air inside it to keep it cool and not over heat. Missouri Wind PMA.

"A few basic pieces of advice. DO not do the super pole configuration, it is really finicky to tune and the one I built tended to run slower. That may not always be the case but I only built one super pole and that was enough for me to go back to normal mono pole."

I would prefer monopole anyway. Ever try to put 2 of those magnets face to face? WOW! I am sure Forrest had a machine to assist him.

Is there some sort of calculation for magnet spacing? Size of magnet versus size of wheel versus size of coil multiplied by wheel RPM?

I could always order more attachments later as the build progresses, to enhance the effectiveness of the whole project.

[why_me]

I have downloaded the 2 books on Bedini SG previously and studied it. That is why I want to build the large version for this project.

[Branch Gordon]

I can tell you first hand that there is plenty not mentioned in the books that you can only learn from experience. I have both e-books as well, 2 DVD's, a board and coil from Teslangenx, and I've been on this forums since they started....I still don't have a correctly working SG.

For as tight a budget as you say you are on...I am surprised that you would put yourself out a limb right out with no prior build experience.

It sounds like you have already spent money on supplies...

I have downloaded the 2 books on Bedini SG previously and studied it. That is why I want to build the large version for this project.