4 foot Bedini SG

[Tom C]

"I do want your experience"

The SG is a lousy prime mover.... when you load the shaft down, it slows down, the more you load it down the slower it goes... it does not draw more current to make up for the load like a normal ac or dc motor...... it does one thing, it charges batteries really well. its the opposite of a motor. a pma requires torque to spin the magnets at RPM ask them how many horsepower you need to turn it at 400 rpm with a load on it.

Tom C

[BobZilla]

The PMA(permanent magnet alternator) is a wind generator that I mounted to a frame so it can be used inside. It has a tiny fan that blows air inside it to keep it cool and not over heat. Missouri Wind PMA.

"A few basic pieces of advice. DO not do the super pole configuration, it is really finicky to tune and the one I built tended to run slower. That may not always be the case but I only built one super pole and that was enough for me to go back to normal mono pole."

I would prefer monopole anyway. Ever try to put 2 of those magnets face to face? WOW! I am sure Forrest had a machine to assist him.

Is there some sort of calculation for magnet spacing? Size of magnet versus size of wheel versus size of coil multiplied by wheel RPM?

I could always order more attachments later as the build progresses, to enhance the effectiveness of the whole project.

Ok I didn't understand you were talking about a permanent magnet setup. Regardless as Tom says these things just are not for mechanical work. You will be very disappointed if that is what you are expecting from it. I was trying to do the same idea with my beefed up wheel and axle but it is just not going to work out how I had thought it would. It is a great machine but it will never pump out mechanical work like had hoped for. How do I know,,,, because when I first built it I had some bearings and an axle that introduced just a little more drag than what is on there now and it made a hell of a difference when I fixed that small issue. That was not even doing any real work, just dragging the axle a tiny bit. The most I hope for is possibly a pulley reduction system that can do a mechanical timing switch for a cap dump, or a small genny coil.

In my opinion small amounts of mechanical work can be done, even more so with a smaller wheel because you can get it spinning real fast like my small one or the old r-charge 3-pole but large heavy wheels will not do much but maintain themselves. You shouldn't even consider mechanical work as an expected output, if you can eek some out once your machine is all setup than that is a bonus but don't plan on it.

[ZPDM]

Ok I didn't understand you were talking about a permanent magnet setup. Regardless as Tom says these things just are not for mechanical work. You will be very disappointed if that is what you are expecting from it. I was trying to do the same idea with my beefed up wheel and axle but it is just not going to work out how I had thought it would. It is a great machine but it will never pump out mechanical work like had hoped for. How do I know,,,, because when I first built it I had some bearings and an axle that introduced just a little more drag than what is on there now and it made a hell of a difference when I fixed that small issue. That was not even doing any real work, just dragging the axle a tiny bit. The most I hope for is possibly a pulley reduction system that can do a mechanical timing switch for a cap dump, or a small genny coil.

In my opinion small amounts of mechanical work can be done, even more so with a smaller wheel because you can get it spinning real fast like my small one or the old r-charge 3-pole but large heavy wheels will not do much but maintain themselves. You shouldn't even consider mechanical work as an expected output, if you can eek some out once your machine is all setup than that is a bonus but don't plan on it.

Tom et BobZilla,

I'm not working on this sort of set-up right now but I'll tell you exactly what I plan to look at in future with this. Yea there's next to no torque with a pulse motor, but it will spin heavy things just takes a long time to get up to speed, is there a use from a heavy flywheel? 2) as Tom C pointed out, its like where's Waldo, where is Lenz? The only thing I got is the very brief duration of the pulse which may or may not have anything to do with it. Two branches on looking further 2a) How does Lenz apply to pick-up coils, is there a "sweet spot". 2.a.1) As Min2oly pointed out to me and Bedini has I think referenced if you short the pick-up coil right when the magnet charged it you get a magneto style charging going on with spikes off the pick-up and as Faraday noted the voltage is related to the rate of change of the magnetic field this could be quite useful. You might also be able to short the coil multiple times for each pass of a magnet. Unless I misunderstood, Min2oly was saying he was getting a better rotor speed with coil shorting a pick-up coil as opposed to just leaving it there, may have misunderstood or it may have been something idiosyncratic with Min2oly's set-up but whew! 2.b) Amazon sells $20 kits to build both simple AC and DC motors. So with a commutated DC motor there has to be a spike when connections are broken. Rectify and capture this spike and see how it compares with total input and/or how much efficiency of the motor might be improved by capturing the inductive spike. 2.b.1) The tough part, change the commutator so that the "on time", the pulse, gradually becomes shorter and shorter and try loading the motor with different on times to see if this has anything to do with why Lenz is so shy in a pulse motor. You might also do this part with Hall effect sensors at gradually increasing distances from the magnetic rotor. Of course, aside from looking at the machine as a conventional generator, is at what rotational speed/other parameters are you getting a good inductive spike charge going on. 2.b.1.a) Ah I got nothun more. /*rant off*/

[Tom C]

Z,

flywheels conserve momentum, but you wont get a lot more out than in, what you get is a smoothing of the input and you get stored enegry to be pulled out another way. is someone with a prony brake could do load tests on a standard SG we could have a basis for doing some simple physics calaculations.... would need to get out my cartoon guide to physisc
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_66ndxokscl_b

with that said there are ways to build systems with coil shorting to produce radiant. Ismael Aviso in the phillipines has done just that.

Tom C

[ZPDM]

And it may be worth looking into whether the seeming absence of Lenz with mechanical loading of a pulse motor is a result of the extremely brief duration of the powering pulse?

[LutherG]

Hello why,

With the magnets you've purchased, and with the design you have in mind, I would suggest you build a Window Motor instead of a Monopole. You are wanting torque to spin a PMA. The machine that is better suited for this task is the Window Motor... It produces torque - lots of it... Just my 2 cents...

Best regards,

Luther

[why_me]

TeslaGenX sent my order to the wrong place and now I want a refund. PM me and I will give the address.
I thought about 2 coils side by side connected in parallel to the same points for a larger reaction. The magnets surely are large enough

[Tom C]

TeslaGenX sent my order to the wrong place and now I want a refund. PM me and I will give the address.

I am more than happy to issue a refund, please send the product back to our address, we shipped to the address you provided to us when you ordered.

you are using an avatar and a screen name we dont have here at the company. so please send us an email and your order number. once the product is returned I am happy to issue a refund.

Tom C

[why_me]

If the post office does not deliver, send the items UPS at the address I sent in the PM. My avatar is of an internationally known musical artist. Prognosis Normal.

The coil idea of parallel placement has not been addressed. Would 2 coils in parallel work for the size of magnets I will use?

[ZPDM]

Tom,

I know you had this thread elsewhere, but I'll give two more ideas for TeslaGenx. One, based from things I've learned from Bedini yourself and others at TeslaGenx I might want to do an actual printed circuit board at some point and would appreciate having a trustworthy group to go to on this. I would think people who are more concerned about professional build quality than myself might be even more interested. Heck you might even offer to solder in the components. Two, I think others have mentioned it, but why not a good Window motor kit? Sure as heck can't see why that thing spins in the first place. I apologize for taking the thread off topic.

[Dave Wing]

Okay... JB said he solved the DC motor "problem" with the SG... and he also said the SG is as simple as he could get it... So I'm going to suggest if you guys want more torque out of a SG do these things...

1) Insert a South Pole in between your north's on your all north wheel. This will increase torque and allow the machine to produce more. You can run in attraction or repulsion mode with this it won't matter and you will not have to change your setup.

2)What you really want for torque is a 360 degree full magnetic rotor, NSNSNSNS configuration and 360 degree electro magnet interaction (stator) with the magnetic rotor. The coil should repel off the north, after the north zero point and continue to attract on upto the zero point on the upcoming coming south, that is repulsion mode. For attraction mode you want repulsion off the south after the south zero point and attraction upto the oncoming north zero point. The Bedini Cole full bipolar switch will combine both attraction and repulsion modes into one mode.

3) Use an iron bike wheel and put a iron ring around the outside of the coils, if you have multiple coils. You want to produce a circulating magnetic field loop, that you will make and break each magnet pass. Look at Dadhav's brushhless printer motor video... Those motors are basically the same as JB's 10 coiler magneto. Study a bike or snowmobile magneto and tell me what it has that the 10 coiler does not. Now put those things on your 10 coiler or bike wheel and you will find torque to indeed power something mechanical. Iron increases magnetic strength... Plain and simple.

4) You will find if the SG machine is configured in this magneto arrangement, under load the shaft will slow down and the machine will produce multiple spikes that will either attract or repel against the magnet rotor NSNSNSNS. Producing excellent torque and solid state like charging under load. When you remove the shaft load it will revert back one pulse per magnet pass. Of course this is in conventional mode. I have tried it in gen mode and it works but charging goes down with multiple spikes. I need more work in this area.

Summary--- With this arrangement you will have good torque and great solid state charging of your secondary battery under shaft load, while using alot less primary current than a single pulse. You can also use a few coils off your machine to function as a generator and dump them the primary or secondary for longer run times. The machine will become a prime mover. Perhaps this is what has been hidden in plain sight all these years? I don't know.

I would like to thank John Bedini for all his efforts in bringing this pulse circuit out into the public domain as an open source project. I am sure there are lots of people who have figured this out, but have not posted to the public domain at all. At least that is what I found. I should also mention that Dadhav and Carl Hurst are the only ones that hinted at this on the Energy science forum window motor thread.

Next step is to use the Bedini Cole Full bipolar switch to get full 360 degree magnetic interaction on both sides of the NSNSNSNS magnet arrangement.

Hope this opens things up a bit...

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

Perhaps the whole point of this forum is to maximize the charge ratio one can get and that may be where John would like to take us in the end, so my intent was not to cause to much disruption to the goal.

I just wanted to show some improvement to the basic SG and pass it along...to others.

I do not know how John does 12:1 charging but that is one of my next goals to figure out.

Dave Wing

[Tom C]

2 All,

there are several things in the works but we will not make ANYTHING not approved by JB that includes a window motor kit and its circuit boards. until JB gives us a design for the rotor and coil that will work we will not produce that product. my personal attempts at the window motor hve been dismal...

@ dave,

nice post have you done anything in this vein? I would love to see your work, I would love to see a window motor which is what you are describing at the end of your post.

@ why me,

multiple coils around the rim are a different beast, gauss matched magnets. precise magnet spacing and precise coil spacing. matching of diodes and resistors and transistors. and and I do not know how much torque it will develop. dave has a good suggestion but it requires experimentation.

[BobZilla]

Hi Dave,
Without putting into practice to find out for myself, your suggestions sound viable. I think there certainly are many things that could be done as modifications to get different outputs and those with experience are free to pursue their ideas (and should).


Not at Dave but just in general,
It seems that many people have a hard enough time just understanding the most basic configuration however and at least from my perspective I am talking about what a beginner such as the original poster could expect. I know I that I do not know it all, and I am guilty of throwing some whacky ideas out there myself but I have gone through the paces necessary to progress into new ideas. Someone just starting out will have a really hard time if they have not successfully built a monopole.

Remember before there were books & kits, we had a circuit drawing and component list, the rest was up to the builder to work on and gain an understanding from trial and error. I am starting to see way too many new comers just expecting everything handed on a platter to them and most do not really even understand the machine, the circuit, or what it is supposed to do.

Nothing against the book and kits, it helps some people but it also draws in the types who otherwise would never think about trying to build such a device.

For all new comers I would just suggest that you build a normal mono pole and study it. Do not worry about generator mode, cap pulsing, branch circuits, building big, etc.. These are all things to learn about but all in good time.

There seems to be a big shift towards Gen mode and gen mode with cap dump (mode3?) these days. Those are cool and all but something I think has been overlooked in that the original mode 1 output can be put across many parallel batteries on the back end because of the potential. Gen mode and dumping is all about current and doesn't lend itself to that old trick. Even better is a branch output of mode 1 with parallel banks on the back. All mods have ups and downs but beginners should start with the basic configuration in my opinion.

[Dave Wing]

Tom,

I do believe I have the window motor figured out at least in my mind anyway. I have never actually worked with anything other than the SG. I decided not to move on to anything else until I figured out the SG first.

To me the when the window motor is running on the SG circuit it is behaving much the same as the SG and has much the same interaction with the magnets on the rotor as the SG. The SG circuit only runs on half of the available magnetic field, the other half of the magnet is not producing repulsion or attraction. The full bipolar circuit will allow both sides of a north or south magnet face to be used in attraction or repulsion, it switches the electromagnet polarity twice on each magnet pass, once prior to the zero point and once after the zero point on any magnet face. So you use both sides of one magnetic face to increase shaft energy. The way I see it a North Pole, or north face of a magnet has two poles that are north and south or attraction and repulsion, you want to use both to your advantage.

Tom, I don't know if I am answering your question?

Dave Wing