Design for Windpower per John's DVD Number 25

[Tom C]

It's been brought to my attention that if I want to sell kits here I need to contact Arron Murakami. Since I'm not selling kits here, I don't deem this necessary. The individual who brought this to my attention can consider this post as my presenting my intentions not only to Aaron, but all who may read this post.

So that its clear, when my kit is finished, I have no plans for distributing it via this platform without the permission of the owner of this forum.



Regards

Since you heve deemed it neccessary to respond publicly to a private conversation (which I find odd, as I was trying to save everyone the mess of a public response) I will be clear. Research and development are welcomed and experimentation is encouraged in an open format with results being shared by all. but when cryptic posts are made concerning technology and breakthrough in a specific area and is unwilling to share the how of it, and then the forum poster says that he wont share specifically "how to replicate" but tells everyone "dont worry I have kit coming you can buy from me to learn it" well that becomes marketing , and using the forum to market a product.

yes yes, I know, I know..............

Aaron is the owner of the forum, He is the one who in the end is financially responsible for its upkeep. if you are supporting the forum with donations, thank you in advance.
if you wish to use the forum to promote a kit or product, then you do what all forums require, not just this one. you pay as an advertiser.

you are not the first person, or the last who will recieve a P.M. from one of the moderators concerning marketing. I sent out 2 others last week. feel free to share the "how" of your circuit, like John B. has done.

Looking forward to you not telling us about your kit.

Tom C

[Tom C]

[QUOTE=erfinder;14647]Not sure where 200 watts came from......In the video I present 20 watts in and 20.6 watts out (electrical.....mechanical not included in the calculation). I have been taught (self taught) to consider this as being = unity.



You aren't viewing the mechanical as I do, and because of this you come to very different conclusions. I have a second circuit operating (passive SG circuits was the topic in the beginning of this thread, I didn't come here to change the subject, and haven't, the circle was closed with that last video, we officially returned to Bills reason for starting this thread, how I see that being accomplished officially is my business....that's all I will say on that.) I didn't say what kind of circuit, for the record its not a cap pulser circuit, I assume you assume its a cap pulser circuit because of the caps being present...this isn't the case.



It is very much a normal generator, its just we are dealing with a smart generator. I have told you where I switch and why I switch where I switch, and its not to eliminate Lenz which would be a sign of ignorance on my part if I did that, and you and anyone else here would be justified in calling me a fraud. No Tom, I maximize the effect that Lenz has in my circuit, call me crazy.



Sure.....


Regards[/QUOTE


yes you told me where you switch, and have not shared it publicly, I told you I would not and have not, but now that you bring it up publicly please share it with everyone. .


tell us about your "not a cap pulser " circuit that is able to harvest mechanical as potential and pulse it into a cap.... hall switched, driving fets on and off, connecting and disconnecting a set of capacitors at a specific time to the coils to store potential..... what is it doing if not pulsing the coils into a cap?

and what are the transformers doing in the circuit? is it a mag amp on the output into the cap, even a block diagram would be helpful.....

no one is gonna believe you unless they replicate what you are doing.... yeah I know you dont care what anyone says or does.......




Tom C

[Tom C]

I did not accuse you of breaking any "law" . and I posted it to you privately to avoid you being you emberassed, and still allow you to pursue what you were doing. I asked you privately to have common courtesy to talk with Aaron about "offering" your kit here. that is selling, or are you giving them away for free? you gonna give Dave wing one for free? I dont think so.

show your ability and work with everyone and offer the process free like JB offered the SG to everyone... you dont have to buy a kit you can build it yourself...

your obstinance and your ability to manipulate language to your seeming advantage (to yourself) amazes me....

you are welcome to stay, but please share how you are doing what you are doing so it can be replicated by experimenters here. if all you are going to do is talk in circles about mystical lenz interactions in your coil, and "unique switch locations" and other such amazing tricks of electrical motor genius, you are welcome to leave....

on the other hand if you answer questions in a straightforward manner and show everyone how to advance your research you are welcome to stay.


the ball is in your court.

Tom C

[Tom C]

I did not accuse you of breaking any "law" . and I posted it to you privately to avoid you being you emberassed, and still allow you to pursue what you were doing. I asked you privately to have common courtesy to talk with Aaron about "offering" your kit here. that is selling, or are you giving them away for free? you gonna give Dave wing one for free? I dont think so.

show your ability and work with everyone and offer the process free like JB offered the SG to everyone... you dont have to buy a kit you can build it yourself...

your obstinance and your ability to manipulate language to your seeming advantage (to yourself) amazes me....

you are welcome to stay, but please share how you are doing what you are doing so it can be replicated by experimenters here. if all you are going to do is talk in circles about mystical lenz interactions in your coil, and "unique switch locations" and other such amazing tricks of electrical motor genius, you are welcome to leave....

on the other hand if you answer questions in a straightforward manner and show everyone how to advance your research you are welcome to stay.

full disclosure = this is how you build it, please replicate..... you have not fully disclosed your circuit, nor how to build it, nor where you switch in the coil, nor how to build a simple device to prove theory.

you have great theory and a machine that proves to you these theories out, but no one here can replicate so far.


the ball is in your court.

Tom C

[Mike Klimesh]

Erfinder,
Please continue posting, I value what you are disclosing and would like one of your kits.

Tom,
Please give the man some space so he continues to share so we have enough information to be able to replicate what he is showing.

Mike Klimesh

[Dave Wing]

I'm not sure how or even if I want to respond to you. I am being accused of breaking the law, by you, and then asked for clarification on things that I have shared "publicly". I have shared everything that I care to share with you, full disclosure was given to everyone, if you missed it, I am sorry, I will not repeat myself, especially if its being demanded of me from one who obviously has a problem with me.

I don't need anyone to believe me Tom. I want people to believe in themselves, I believe in myself and in what I have presented, I am not looking for anyone to verify my efforts, I believe in my work so much that I feel I can offer a kit for those who are interested in my research, interpret that as you will. Folks should be encouraged to find the answers that "they" seek. I said it before, I don't know what others want, I do know we are being told what we want, that is a crime.

For the record, I answered that private message in the public so that folks would know that I am being told that I am breaking the forum rules. I don't think I am, I haven't "sold" anything, nor am I asking for anyone to buy anything, there is enough of that going on. You responded, letting everyone know it was you, I pointed no fingers. I hope you find what you are looking for, and hope that despite this bump in the flow of this discussion that those who are following along are not discouraged by this, I'm not.

If anyone feels I have violated the forum guidelines please inform me of this publicly, I will discontinue posting. If anyone feels I have not violated the forum guidelines, I would be honored if you expressed your opinion in this regard. As it stands, I am not sure whether I should stay or go.

Tom I sincerely hope that you find those answers.


Regards

erfinder,

You have stated earlier on in this forum that you were looking for assistance? What type are you looking for? Are you looking for money for development and or patenting? Do you simply want others to know what you discovered? What really are your true intentions with what you have discovered? What do you expect from someone who buys your kit? What do you expect them to do with the kit after they have discovered how it works? Are they able to then do what they please with what they have learned? Can one use, what they have learned from your kit, in existing motors and not violate any current active patents?

In light of the above, if seeking patent money is correct, I can see your reasoning why you would not simply orchestrate a replication attempt, revealing step by step instruction. However you do appear to be willing to disclose guidance and or assistance in the form of the forum users asking questions and you will give the answers according to your opinion, which I deem to be your understanding as you now currently behold it. That is fine and I support that way of doing things as it is your choice to reveal what you have discovered and I am in no position of power to change this. If it was me I would perhaps do things somewhat differently, at least that is the way I feel about it right now and having nothing to offer others. But why then disclose anything? Is it in the hopes of generating more interest in your kit?

If you were to disclose in straight detail point by point manner, allowing others, even perhaps a child to replicate as I think you mentioned earlier, then would you be able to sell kits that demonstrate what you have fully disclosed? In light of this... have you considered the current model that those here currently use? What can be learned? Have you considered selling a PDF E-Book for $29.95 or so, revealing your machine in full detail that one could easily replicate. Again it seems to work for others? Plus the kit would still sell as quite a few would still rather buy a kit over building their own. We all have seen this work well have we not? And if your kits do function as you say, I believe personally they do, then why not pay to have you name or company name on a banner on this forum? How would that impact your sales if you were to do such things?

I do not think anyone wants you to leave the forum or stop posting as you have just as much right to be here as anyone else and I as well as others value your time and effort in answering questions. As far as violating the forum agreement I may have read it when first signing up but I cannot remember the conditions for business, soliciting business, suggesting opportunities for potential business and the like. Perhaps someone could address and cite the particular article in the disclaimer so we all know in detail? Then at least we would have a proper guide for assessment.



Dave Wing

[Tom C]

Done... off this post and topic i will post no more.... good luck everyone.

Tom C

[Kiril_Kirilov]

Erfinder,
you should stay here, as you know there's more people, who are open minded, and highly appreciate what you are sharing with us. As I told you already (I've felt all this that just happend was going to be...), take care of yourself!
I fully support you in your campaign. Please, keep going

Kindest regards,
Kiril

[Dave Wing]

Now we are interested in my motives? The question suggests that you have already have an opinion, most unfortunate. I made a statement as you astutely point out. Could assistance be interpreted as me needing your assistance in you helping you help yourself? What have I asked any of you for since my arrival, specifically?

Of course I have any opinion, but it does not mean I cannot change it. Assistance could be interpreted in that way that you describe, that is why we're having this conversation to understand each other.

Not interested in patenting. This really isn't the place to ask for assistance for development of anything...is it?

What do you mean... "assistance for development of anything... is it?" please clarifiy?

Originally Posted by Dave Wing
Do you simply want others to know what you discovered?
I haven't discovered anything.....


Originally Posted by Dave Wing
What really are your true intentions with what you have discovered?
Again, I haven't discovered anything.


Originally Posted by Dave Wing
What do you expect from someone who buys your kit?
It's my desire that they see what I see. Once they see what I see, I expect they will see what they want to see.

Ok re-discovered should have been used. My goal is to see what you see and make my own judgment.

Originally Posted by Dave Wing
What do you expect them to do with the kit after they have discovered how it works?
I expect human nature will kick in, and the desire to make a quick buck will become too great to resist. The signs are all over the place, you feel it Dave? You see how attitudes are changing, how demanding some are getting? There is money to be made, and lost.


Originally Posted by Dave Wing
Are they able to then do what they please with what they have learned?
Define do what they please. Do you feel the desire to make a quick buck? With each new bread crumb do you feel and or see a product within reach? Who are you going to sell it to? The kit is an instrument, as useless as a piano is to one with no musical ear.


Originally Posted by Dave Wing
Can one use, what they have learned from your kit, in existing motors and not violate any current active patents?
Can one?


Originally Posted by Dave Wing
In light of the above, if seeking patent money is correct, I can see your reasoning why you would not simply orchestrate a replication attempt, revealing step by step instruction.
Most unfortunate. I don't want a replication effort because I don't consider you as incompetent. This is the peanut gallery, we are peers, we are all in the same boat, or nest, however you want to view it.

Of course people want to make money, I want to make money, you want to make money, but I do not want to take advantage in the hopes of leaving anyone short on their end. Nothing wrong with that. I simply wanted clarity and wanted to know why you were reluctant for others to replicate. Once again seeking understanding to clear the misconceptions.

The kit was offered to those who wanted to support my research, it's not a marketing tool. In truth, it's becoming clearer with each new post that I might be in the wrong place, for folks here are only interested in either other people's money or in how they can make money. I love what I do, if you can't see that in my presentations, in my models, then you really don't get it. I don't want more of the same I want a true paradigm change.

Are you not in fact asking for peoples money when offering your kit? You want to make money to further your own research... Nothing wrong with that. But if someone else suggests they would like to make money from the retail sale of your kits to pay for their own research is looked upon as a negative thing. Is this what you mean or have I gotten it wrong?

I support learning and am doing my own research and am actively pursuing what you have suggested or indirectly pointed to thus far, thank you for that. I know we need to able to see and or understand things for our self and I am all for that. I am tired of floundering around.

This is a short reply as I am really pressed for time at the moment.

Dave Wing

[Nofear]

I am not going to answer any of your questions Tom. I am not interested in playing by "your" rules. I don't like your new attitude, nor do I appreciate all the negativity you are projecting in my direction. The record shows I have been open and honest, sharing my work as I see fit to share it same as any researcher frequenting these and other pages. Your permission to stay falls on deaf ears, for it come over hollow. I love what I do, I don't feel love when you attempt to quote me and or interpret something that I have said. I don't know what you want, whatever your motivation, it is not in alignment with mine. So that its clear Tom, your opinion is valued, however, owing to these recent developments, I no longer hold any stock in it. Everything you are saying about me in these, for lack of a better way of describing it, desperate grasping for that which has already been given, calling those very things that you seem so bewitched by mystical and tricks. Why would you belittle that which you want, why insult me and then ask me to give you anything? Those aren't questions that need answering, I am not going to provide you with what you want, and you can think whatever you want about me, it won't change anything. I know I am on the right path, the bench delivers results that I have been seeking. If I needed another reason to know I am on the right path it would be your interest. You want to see that which I suggest is possible, open your mind and heart, review. Once you have done so, please come back and apologize publicly, because I have given you everything you are asking for.

Please don't call me out again, I don't want you to waste your time.


Regards

Come on ErFinder. I mean what the F.
I appreciate you taking the time to sharing your experiments/videos. But let's not beat around the bush. Be honest and call it as it is. Your posts are like a striptease show. Let's agree that you are not giving selflessly. Should we at least agree on that? So don't pretend that you are holding back for our own good or you want us to learn by ourselves instead of being handed out information. Don't you find that a tad patronizing?

We all have brains, We can all conduct scientific experiments and everyone will be progressing at their own pace. But of course there's this forum: it is a place for sharing and discussion, for the purpose of creating synergies conducive to advancing the technology. 1+1 is more then 2 type of a thing. So I find it a bit insulting and suspicious when you are dispensing information in a convoluted way with the pretense that it is for a higher moral goal.

Nobody is indispensable. If you are NOT willing to share, in an open and straightforward fashion then you should stop wasting our time.
If you are willing to share openly and in a straightforward fashion then everyone will be appreciative.
If you want to sell a kit here? it's not really my call but I don't see why not. I will personally not buy one. Despite your repetitive insistence, I am still not sure what we are getting. Not because I am thick...it's because you haven't been open enough to earn my trust. Hope you can see that.

Nothing personal my dear friend. I praise myself for being a loving person. But I will do you a disservice if I am not honest with you. Please take it like a man so we can all move on and focus on what really matters.
Cheers
NoFear.

[Allen R.]

This thread is 34 pages of smoke blowing. It contains vague and intentionally long posts with rudeness toward the board leadership. Just my opinion.

al

[Kiril_Kirilov]

So, its being suggested that I am rude towards the leadership, withholding information, strip teasing, blowing smoke and being vague. Guys and gals, in the end the entire argument started when the subject of the kit was brought up. I officially drop the kit topic, now what..

I figured showing you whats possible was enough, I figured the strong in the bunch would say "hmmmm...that's new....I think hes on to something... what he is demonstrating is basic, I should have seen this eons ago, let me look closer at the information." This wasn't the case, schematics are being demanded, when it was stated, else where that the circuit isn't the fulcrum of my presentation. In addition to this, my view is dramatically different from those being offered at present. My view is of more value than the test apparatus that the majority are so desperate to replicate. I only wanted you all to see what I see, feel what I feel, and then build off that, go in a direction that you feel led to move into. Rejected.

... People look for magic in the circuits, this is the moral, this is the paradigm that has to change, the switch becomes more than a simple switch only when the circuit that its placed in is properly configured. This is my view, and that's whats valuable...

... I own 33 of the 36 EFTV videos, and I only suggest you watch one...

... They aren't sharing in the manner that you demand of me, and yet, I don't hear these demands being brought to their attention, double standards? ...

With that I am not going to modify my method, this attitude has cost me dearly, but, it builds character. I want you to believe in yourself and not in a piece of paper (printed schematic). I have my own view of what CEMF is and how to manipulate it, try as I might, I can't put that in a schematic. If I gave you a schematic, you could literally use it to clean a dirty bottom with it, for that's all its worth. What does that tell you? The switching circuit is not playing a central role for me.

Anyway...since my posts way too long and meaningless, I will post less, responding only to serious inquiry.


Regards

Your posts are not meaningless...you just upset some, who think they know more than others, but it appeared that they don't know something, that they for sure would use for earning money if they could, as many "painfully slow disclosed" tеchnologies in the "money making queue"...

And your posts are too literrally direct to some who doesn't use the language/forum to communicate/share, but probably they have every time $omething el$e in mind ...
Most of the people forgot the true meaning of the language and more sadly, accept the things personally, instead of seeing the real knowledge within...
You are not rude, the perception is responsibility of the receiver!

Posting less will serve exactly the spirit of "lesser transparency"...and i hope you will rethink that despite the change in attitude, after the kit was brought at the scene.

Take care of yourself, keep going and kindest regards!
Kiril

[aln]

Erfinder,
I have been following closely, I copy and save all your comments regarding your motors in case they get deleted. I am not learned in electronics so I can not even intelligently guess to answer your questions or to even comment on them without sounding like a fool. I only comment now to let you know I am studying many things from your comments and to offer thanks. You have shared a lot, eventually I will compile your clearer comments and post for those who want it complied, takes time. I study deeper now driven by interest in your work. Just wanted to thank you. Been here the whole time, see value in your words, I appreciate your method, if you disappear, I will still have your words and will still study, I believe that is your motivation. Aln

[dennis foyil]

I rarely post for the reasons aln stated and a few more, however, I will second his sentiment I see this as a fabulous way to use the mechanical from an sg. AND so much more. Bearden spoke of an embarrassing excess. I think erfinder has shown us one.

[Dave Wing]

People need to get their priorities straight. People want to make money before they understand anything. People want to make money first, understand second. If all I wanted was to make money, I wouldn't have asked for assistance. I would have come here selling you what you've been shown in a nice little package made in China. I am of the opinion that with the little I do have and have shared with you, if I worked with the right one, or group of passionate researchers who are focused on the science and not the bottom line, we could bring something to the market. Haven't found a like minded individual or group who is passionate about the research first. I don't want to "make" money, I would like to one day generate an income form "my" effort, this isn't a priority, understanding and practical application must come first. How about you trying to design your own kit and coming up with your own theory of how it functions and sell that? Nothing wrong with that...right? Why desire to sell mine? Is that even possible? I'm sure it is, but do you know whats going on in "my" kit? The honest answer is no, so what real service would you be providing?

erfinder what is wrong with you? You speak like you know what is going on in my mind, when really you have no clue. You should first understand the facts... What you said about needing "assistance" could have been taken many different ways. Rather than making it clear what you meant by "assistance" you chose to ignore my PM and not even give a response as to your true position as to what you really meant by the word assistance. Why did you do this and not clarify? Now you try and make me and possibly others look like money grubbing fools, when this is not the case. I sent you this...

Ok sounds good. If your kits prove out as you say, I have no doubt that they will, then would you consider... Allowing my business to sell them on my Ebay store and elsewhere? In the past I have sold all the old Bedini kits when they were made back when... and now currently sell the Energenx chargers and Bedini audio equipment there now, your kit would be a very nice addition and a definite hot seller. This way you make money and I make money plain and simple... I currently pay for all my research and business expenses via sales from Ebay.

Let me know if you are willing to supply the kits for retail.

Thank you,


Dave Wing

If you read what I said in the above PM I said "If your kits prove out..." I would have to get one in my possession and make sure it works and does what you claim before I would even consider selling one. I do not sell items unless they work and I have to know this first hand. Also I just wanted to let you know my interest in selling your kits was a future plan, as I simply wanted to let you know my intentions so the opportunity was not to be missed.

I do not know how others, on this forum, interpreted your need for "assistnace" to mean, but I am not into these word games you are playing, be straight forward and communicate properly and in truth, that is all I ask. Perhaps you should apologize as well for you actions.

Dave Wing