Design for Windpower per John's DVD Number 25

[Dave Wing]

...No one understands Tesla, ...no one wants to hear the truth. Radiant energy as presented by Tesla has absolutely no relation to that which "was" being passed along to the gullible. A quick glance in the patents which in my opinion inspired the circuits under discussion were about collapsing field collection for the purpose of charging a capacitor which would be dumped into a low impedance load...sound familiar...well it should because that's exactly whats being sold off as something that its not.

...What can be gathered from this description is enough for one with eyes to see without a shadow of a doubt that what we have been told is radiant is in fact not radiant, call that opinion, or call it fact, study the patents, those granted to Tesla, and the 21st century patents which are a refreshing blast from the past with a few modern twists, after careful study, make up your own mind.

...Truth be told, people have been misled, the information has been for lack of a better way of putting it, misrepresented, whether this was intentional or not is up to the individual on the receiving end of the information to determine...

...I agree with you they have shown the way, but the way isn't a solution it is a way to a solution. In my opinion, one of the most important lessons taught by these gentlemen, regarding the technology, is missed by everyone, including you, I sincerely hope that you can remedy this. I could share with you what I have learned from them, but that would be a waste of time, as I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't be interested, and if you were, if I got you wrong, you wouldn't understand what I'm trying to demonstrate. Show some of your work, I look forward to seeing it, if I find that what I am doing is related to what you have done, I will share my work with you.


Regards

erfinder,

I for one want to know the truth, I am not afraid to say... I do not have it all figured out exactly, with that said I do in fact keep a very open mind about anything that will change or challenge my views, I can turn on a dime to accept new truths at a moments notice, without letting my pride get in the way.

If intentional or not I do want to know how I have been mislead and I sincerely want to know what has been missed by everyone as well.

So again share what you know, no matter how outrageous it may be. Who cares what some may think, does their opinion really mean anything if they are disputing or going against truth?



Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

Hi John_K,

Personally, I think the AC motor topology is superior in many ways to the DC motor topology, there are a few exceptions to this, it's more or less dependent on application. This is my personal opinion.


Regarding your question, My first modified induction motor was able to operate on both circuits, the motor was trigger coil based. This modification was my attempt at producing the equivalent of a Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor (PMSM), driven by either of the aforementioned circuits. The first motor was a fairly large 10kw motor, the windings were broken at the internal WYE connection and all phases individualized. In this particular motor I was lucky, each phase was wound with two strands. One of these windings was used as the trigger winding and the other winding of the same phase was used as the power winding. Attempts were made to trigger all three phases using a single trigger from one phase, however, this did not function. As the motor comes with a squirrel cage rotor, it was replaced with a custom rotor, this particular motor was a two pole machine, so a two pole permanent magnet rotor was fabricated and installed. When connected to a suitable supply the motor ran. It didn't run very fast, and keeping to the tradition of the SG it didn't produce any torque. It wasn't till later that it occurred to me why the SG isn't producing torque, like the motor would in days prior to the modification and like the Window motor can and does, but that's a story for another day.


The second motor I modified was a 3.8kw induction motor. It was completely rewound, with 18x trifilar coils, it was originally designed to operate on a 54 transistor SG circuit. The motor was setup so that there were three phases, 6 coils per phase. One trigger and 2 drive windings per phase. Each phase produced 12 stator poles so a 12 pole rotor was designed. A communications error between myself and the machinist resulted in me receiving a 9 pole rotor!!! The project was put on hold for lack of funds for a new rotor. Two months after the 9 pole rotor was delivered I was performing a test on another SG type motor when it hit me that I could salvage the 9 pole rotor by turning it into a quasi six pole rotor, three magnets, all north poles facing out. I did this and the motor runs perfectly, just not as strong as it would if the south poles weren't imaginary.....All of my SG devices are supplied with mains level voltages, and because of this, I have experienced things while using this circuit which I do not like. The weak point in this circuit as it is presented, and this is my personal opinion, is the transformer action that takes place between the power windings and the trigger winding! This transformer action coupled with the generator action already taking place in the trigger results in sudden death of high wattage pots when the circuit is operating. This is a loss which cannot be circumvented. I have seen some very clever methods for attempting to get around this issue, to include the bipolar circuit which uses a transistor in the trigger circuit. At high power input, it matters not! Ultimately the solution to the problem was isolation. The trigger if it was to be inductive, had to be removed from the power winding. However, I digress....


The point is, a conventional induction motor can be modified to operate on either of these circuits, however, there are many key issues which need to be addressed before you attempt a modification. Today I would just save my beans and buy a PMSM. What you drive it with is up to you, just make sure you are recovering from both ends of the wire!


Regards

Erfinder,

Is this some of the problems you speak of? I too and many others I am sure have found this out, but have not said much if anything about it, search the net and see what a search turns up? I could not find much if anything.

My opinion is that the basic SG project was an open source from the beginning and it was up to the researchers to work to [solve the DC motor problem, (John Bedini even said as much)] with the inventor giving hints along the way. People were supposed to post results and improve upon the basic concept the SG presented and ultimately work together to engineer the SG into a finished, advanced powerful pulse motor.

My intent is to not hijack this thread, sorry.

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

It all begins with a question, what exactly is CEMF? That motor was rewound to operate on the SG circuit, but for the wrong reasons. I would highly recommend that before anyone builds anything, that you ask yourself what CEMF is. When you have a bullet proof answer, then build whatever you want, built it around CEMF.

In my opinion there is no DC motor problem. The problem is not understanding what CEMF is and how it puts the brakes on all motor types. All of the devices and principles mentioned from the SG to the G field, from the window to the zero force are teaching lessons about what CEMF is and how to manipulate it. Instead of looking at the machines, look at the CEMF which is manifesting inside them!

Regards

What is CEMF??? A force that opposes change in an magnetic field, such as an inductor. It resists, normal current flow. An inductor at the instance when attempting to pass current, such as when trying to creating a dipole out of an inductor, it straight up resists the formation of that dipole structure and it also does the opposite and wants to maintain the dipole when you pull the current out of said inductor. A partial comparison may be made when we exert a force on a object it pushes back on us with a certain amount of force until we overcome and break friction. If we take away the force, I can only speculate what may happen but it may be much like the energey being pulled from a charged inductor. The vacuum energy is stressed and should constantly supply a flow if we know how to get it out.


Plainly CEMF must be what everyone calls radiant or vacuum energy that does the opposite in nature, when compared to the conventional current we all use from the grid. CEMF must always be a part of any flow of normal current.


I am sorry but that is my best effort of what CEMF is without pounding the books at this time. Is it correct, wrong or close?



Dave Wing

[Tom C]

cemf was partially overcome using flynns parallel path arrangement, it can also be seen in the radus boot patent.... permanent magnets also exhibit CEMF within them, by resisting being moved once they are in contact with another metal object. lifting the magnet off the object is counter to the force in the magnetic flux lines..... my 1/2 cent. JB has a patent on a CEMF motor.
https://www.google.com/patents/EP126...ed=0CFIQ6AEwBA
https://www.google.com/patents/US639...ed=0CHUQ6AEwCQ

Tom C

[min2oly]

Erfinder/Dave,
What is the maximum voltage of CEMF in a 12V battery driven "motor"/energizer?

Tom, I enjoyed building and still do enjoy operating that patent.
The Bedini Cole full bipolar is a nice lite-lenz regauging when overdriven generator ckt.
memory lanes... I can't find the vid now, JB operates a window motor powered by capacitor and comments on the LENZ(cemf).
Patrick

[min2oly]

Oh, yes - there is always the Zero Force Motor vid :-)

"Published on Aug 23, 2012
In this Video I'm showing a "ZERO FORCE MOTOR" The motor works opposite the normal SG or DC motor. No Back EMF is developed in the motor, so it does not generate anything. The discussion will take place in the Energysciencefourm. here .http://www.energyscienceforum.com/ The motor was built by Peter Lindermann from one of my early models.I will not be posting anywhere else but on the new forum. The Forum is dedicated to the people that worked so hard on the SG groups.
Thanks for watching
John Bedini"

cheers,
Patrick

[Tom C]

Lindemman has a zero cemf electric motor also. its in his electric motor secrets video..

Tom C

[Faraday88]

Hi Erfinder,

You sound more ER than what you call your self.. if you feel the people whom I defend don't need me .. I don't care.. they don't pay me to do so.. its my Instinct be with those whom I feel are correct, who are you to reserve rights over them!!!! on the hind side you don't even speak like an experimenter. For I should share my work with you, there are people in this very forum who have seen and understood stuff that I have pointed out on several occasions, they never slandered like you who is sounding more like a typical critic and naysayer than a genuine researcher... I don't want to quote what it take to be lateral thinker unless it is built in you. if you have made up your mind not to listen to others there is no way you can be made to see what others see...or an individual sees.. so why crib about it... do what you feel is correct.. but that doesn't stop me either...
Those who believe seek no proof... and those who only seek proof will never endeavor a quest.Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Just by posting some builds you can'nt prove what you claim to be.. do you?? there are 100000's of people how do that.. it mere fancy and fantasy in exhibition especially when the Internet is at their disposal.. I dint know this is a form to build fancy full items with no tinges of Science in it. you are equal welcome to keep posting fancy and fantasy
yes I do respect you for what you have put efforts in building but nothing more than that.. there have been others who have ditched JB when they saw some thing and never returned to even say thanks!!to become a competent authority that you so hope to become. Than you better hope only for that, History is evident to the fact that Rome was not built in a day..so is the blessing of Free Energy to the world!!!!
I agree that you have to work towards what you want. But that doesn't guarantee you the guy on opposite side will co-operate either... more often than not ..he doesn't I'm sure you will agree as well..!! I have seen JB suffer many a times and I don't know why, he has reached a level of wisdom perhaps with age I guess that he doesn't mind (Rick fried rich is a typical case) if your are aware..! so why share..JB is not a fool not to Patent his work, think over this if you really care to know..!

[Faraday88]

You and your assumptions regarding me are going to keep us going back and forth. I want you to know with this post that I don't intend on responding to you anymore unless its constructive. The image I shared with the group is just that, an image. No claims, no instructions no plans just a picture of a few research instruments that I have thrown together. I have no intention nor desire to compare myself with the multitude of experimenters that we find on the net. Your opinion of what I share is yours, it matters very little to me constructive or otherwise. I share an image and you immediately compare it with thousands of other experimenters, call it fancy, and then claim that there's no science behind it, relax pal, it was just a picture.

The way you keep defending and or speaking for people is interesting. Regarding becoming a competent authority, that should be the goal of all experimenters, in "my" lab, my university, I am becoming that which I desire to become.

What does Rome have to do with this conversation, and free energy, I sincerely hope you are joking, because the wise know there's no such thing! That which the majority for whatever reason calls free energy goes by a different name to those "skilled in the arts", as I'm sure you are well aware, Tesla belonged to that group of skilled individuals, my opinion.

No offence but, if you invested as much time in discussing things that are described in the patents and less time chattering about things that have absolutely nothing to do with you, this conversation just might become productive.


Regards

My only contention is to promote the Idea of Energy from the Vacuum, I know we are not in the phase of seeing any thing that can be truly called Free Energy, but it can'nt be ridiculed either, as a researcher we are still trying to Engineer the Vacuum to Extract the best it can offer (engineer able) BTW Nuclear Energy is also EFTV just that it is a brute force method of obtaining it, Stanley Meyer was terminated for showing this to the world that Atomic energy (Nuclear) can be safely, cleanly and electrically produced on demand.
they dint bother him until he came up with the Water Fuel Injector which does the above.
no offence intended from my side either pal, be happy with what you are doing..
rgds,
Faraday88.

[Dave Wing]

We are informed of its existence, but not its true nature. We are instructed on how to calculate it, we are informed on how its manifestation negatively effects on our systems, we are not informed on what we can do with it, aside from the obvious. Anytime there is a change in current or magnetic flux or both as in motors, we experience this force, in the latter case, we experience it twice. This should have alarms going off everywhere, we find the opposite is true.


Regards

erfinder,

Honestly I do not understand its true nature, that is true and do not know how to properly use it, it is currently out of my grasp at this time. I have looked on the net for text book definitions of what CMEF is, why it is there, and found little valuable information. Do you have anything you could recommend for the non electrical engineer types. I just need the simple or have to wait to fully digest the complex which takes time. Just to let you know I will continue researching this area until a proper answer is found.

Regarding a change in magnetic flux or current, twice on the motor, can you please be more specific as I currently do not have any alarm bells going off?

In your opinion what exactly does the SG transfer to the secondary battery?


Thank you,

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

erfinder,

Thanks for the reply... You have given some good insight.

Here is, what I think is a prime example of CEMF explained in a motor.


"...This time around I’ll dig a little deeper into the effect called back (or counter) EMF, which is the key concept that makes this saying true, and also one that seems to be endlessly misunderstood and abused (particularly by the free energy/overunity crowd).


The first clue to demystifying back EMF is its alternate name, counter EMF. The second is to define and simplify EMF, which stands for “electromotive force” – which is basically the same as voltage1. So a back EMF (or BEMF for short) is a voltage that counters another voltage.


More specifically, it is a voltage induced in a conductor that is experiencing a time-varying magnetic field and opposes an externally applied voltage to said conductor. The only devices that can experience BEMF are inductors (including transformers) and motors, and only when an external voltage is applied to them.


At this point, your eyes might very well be glazing over…I mean, what the heck does BEMF have to do with the price of eggs in China? As it turns out, nothing at all, but it does explain why motors (and transformers) draw so little current when unloaded.


For example, consider a simple permanent magnet DC motor that has a resistance of 0.1 Ω at its terminals. If we apply 10 V to this motor then we should expect it to draw an initial pulse of current of up to 100 A, but if the shaft is allowed to spin freely, then the current will quickly drop to a very low value (perhaps 1 A) because little mechanical work is being done (only that required to overcome friction and air resistance).


Recalling that electrical power is voltage times current and mechanical power is torque times RPM will explain why so little electrical power is required to spin an unloaded motor. It is also not surprising that the current demanded by this motor will increase in proportion to the amount of torque load on the shaft, reaching a limit of 100 A (i.e. 10 V / 0.1 Ω) when the shaft is stalled (assuming the power supply and wiring have zero resistance and can supply this current).


What is not clear from mere observation is why the motor only draws the electrical power necessary to deliver the mechanical power demanded of it (plus inevitable losses). It’s not because the resistance of the motor changes – though it will tend to increase as it gets hotter – rather, it’s because the conductors in the armature are moving past a stationary magnetic field provided by the permanent magnets, and therefore a voltage is induced in them that opposes the applied voltage, that is: BEMF. This induced voltage is proportional to the intensity of the magnetic field, its rate of change (as experienced by the wires as they move past the pole pieces), and the number of turns of the wire.


The polarity of the induced voltage (BEMF) is the opposite of the applied voltage, so it reduces the “actual” voltage experienced by the armature turns, which reduces the amount of current flowing through the motor. This explains why an unloaded motor draws little current, and why a stalled motor draws maximum current, but why does a moderately loaded motor draw a moderate current? In a nutshell, it is because whenever a current flows through a wire it creates a magnetic field2. Thus, as our example motor is more heavily loaded, it slows down just a bit, which reduces the BEMF and lets more current flow..." Quoted from http://chargedevs.com/features/a-clo...omotive-force/


Here is another link on switched reluctance motor for those interested. http://chargedevs.com/features/a-clo...ctance-motors/


Dave Wing

[Faraday88]

Hi Dave,

Its simple...Lenz law is applied!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Hi Erfinder,

Thanks you pal, it was not my intention to have a rift with you here, I apologies for all that any way, at the same time I appreciate your hard work that reflect in those picture
s that you posted, I know it is equally very pains taking to have them built that way(the quality), keep up good work, we will remain pals
Best Regards,
Faraday88.

[Dave Wing]

Now what? Where do you go from here?

I would think one would need to go with these types of motors, switched with the SG circuit or the Bedini Cole Half Bipolar Switch. I think these motors may somewhat recycle and or recirculate CEMF in the cores and the coils if wound correctly.



Part of why I say this is the Dyson vacuum cleaner was able to reach speeds in excess of 100,000 rpm using a Reluctance motor.

Dave Wing