Second coil not doing much?

[Marine]

Hi guys.
I've added a second coil to my SG. It's another identical bifilar coil with an extra circuit for it.
It seems to be doing nothing though. I've got a bit more RPM's but i'm still not getting any extra juice out of it than i was with just the 1 coil before? The circuit is working fine and the neon comes on when i disconnect the charge battery etc. I can't see why i am still only getting around 12.30v going into the charge battery?
(I'm using 2 indentical 12v 4.5ah batteries.

[Tom C]

Marine,

there are technical mechanical problems with multi coil machines. first the simple answers, another strand of wire is not going to help your machine the way it is. you dont need a trigger winding on the slave coils, you use the trigger circuit off the master coil. also if your magnets are not PERFECTLY aligned in terms of distance from each other, and the coil not PERFECTLY matched you will ge the coils fighting one another. there are MANY MANY other considerations with multi coil machines. dont waste your time until you get good charging from a single coil machine. unwind your 2 coils and wrap your power and trigger windings on 1 coil.

Tom C

[Bung-ee]

Tom C : words of wiseness - as usual

[Marine]

Marine,

there are technical mechanical problems with multi coil machines. first the simple answers, another strand of wire is not going to help your machine the way it is. you dont need a trigger winding on the slave coils, you use the trigger circuit off the master coil. also if your magnets are not PERFECTLY aligned in terms of distance from each other, and the coil not PERFECTLY matched you will ge the coils fighting one another. there are MANY MANY other considerations with multi coil machines. dont waste your time until you get good charging from a single coil machine. unwind your 2 coils and wrap your power and trigger windings on 1 coil.

Tom C

Hi Tom.
Can you just clear something up for me. Which is which. The trigger and the run wire. I keep hearing different people use the wordings for different meanings. As i have been led to believe the trigger wire is what collects the energy and the run wire is the one powering the circuit making the wheel spin? Is that correct? Just want to rule out any confusion on my behalf.
And how would i use the trigger circuit of the master coil? I know roughly what you mean but not exactly what you mean.
When you say unwind my 2 coils and wrap my power and trigger wires on 1 coil, do you just mean make one extra large bifialr coil?
Also i wanted to start using other coils as collector coils where they can either power some LED's or go into the charging battery but i am unsure how to connect those coils to the circuit.
The problem i have is until i get a better understanding of how stuff is all connected, i can only go by copying someone like The Daftman on youtube bit for bit. I can build one and make it work but have no idea how to add to it etc.
I appreciate all the help you and others can give.
And

[Brodie Gwilliam]

i believe he is saying make a coil with one trigger and 2 power coils so a large trifiliar.... what length and size of wire are you using that you cant charge up a 4.5ah battery? are you sure its good??

those gel cells batterys wont perform as good as lead acid , i have some 7ah and use them for playing with smaller bedini fans mostly, but they dont seem to work as good on pulse motor systems as true liquid lead acid batteries
But i can still get them up to 16v in no time, especially with neg to neg

[Brodie Gwilliam]

your using 850 turn coil marine?? you will want to use bigger batteries for something like that, starter batteries from a vehicle.... im guessing that is drawing around the 200 ma when tuned?? you might want to put it on a power supply and push the batteries for a day or so until they plateau, then put a drain on them like led's or a tail light tell they're down tell 12.4 then push them back up until you can get the bedini wheel pushing them to 15.3 ..... a wheel with only one power coil will have trouble, you might be able to get it up their with 2 power coils.... but it might take 10 or so charge discharge cycles.... which means 10 or so days of charging and discharging batteries.... if you want to push your battery up i little bit more neg to neg will work, watch the amp draw on primary, rpms should be slower but charging will be better.... this mode is said not to rejuvenate as good but allows you to push batteries up to charging voltages when they need to get their quick(for adding a second power coil just parallel it with original, the one end going to collector, and other end going to primary positive)

[Marine]

i believe he is saying make a coil with one trigger and 2 power coils so a large trifiliar.... what length and size of wire are you using that you cant charge up a 4.5ah battery? are you sure its good??

those gel cells batterys wont perform as good as lead acid , i have some 7ah and use them for playing with smaller bedini fans mostly, but they dont seem to work as good on pulse motor systems as true liquid lead acid batteries
But i can still get them up to 16v in no time, especially with neg to neg

Hi Brodie.
Thanks for clearing that up.
My memory is a bit faint as i bought the wires over a year ago. I'm pretty sure i copied Daftman's youtube video and got the same as him which is 24swg for the run wire and 22swg for the trigger. 95% certain that's what i'm using.
The batteries i'm using are sealed lead acid batteries. Those one that are about half the size of a brick.
I was going to make a triflar coil but i didn't know how to hook it up to the circuit. By that i mean exactly. I know roughly but roughly isn't good enough. I just did another bifilar with another circuit for a bifilar as that is what i already have a blueprint for and so it's easy for me to do.
How would add an additional trigger wire to my circuit. Is it ok to just solder the ends of the new wire to the corresponding wire ends that i already have?
I tried neg to neg but got no extra juice

[Brodie Gwilliam]

you want only one trigger for a wheel regardless of how many coils you add(any second coils will not need triggers just power windings), i think you got your wires mixed up, you want the smaller wire as the trigger and bigger ones as your power coil... unless you remembered wrong... its easy to add more wires, keep trigger as is, connect 2 power windings together at both ends( both starts connected, and both ends connected) then just hook it up as you usually would.... when you deal with bigger and more wires you will want each wire going to its own transistor but you dont have to worry about that for now as your transistor should be able to handle 2 power wires fine

[Marine]

your using 850 turn coil marine?? you will want to use bigger batteries for something like that, starter batteries from a vehicle.... im guessing that is drawing around the 200 ma when tuned?? you might want to put it on a power supply and push the batteries for a day or so until they plateau, then put a drain on them like led's or a tail light tell they're down tell 12.4 then push them back up until you can get the bedini wheel pushing them to 15.3 ..... a wheel with only one power coil will have trouble, you might be able to get it up their with 2 power coils.... but it might take 10 or so charge discharge cycles.... which means 10 or so days of charging and discharging batteries.... if you want to push your battery up i little bit more neg to neg will work, watch the amp draw on primary, rpms should be slower but charging will be better.... this mode is said not to rejuvenate as good but allows you to push batteries up to charging voltages when they need to get their quick(for adding a second power coil just parallel it with original, the one end going to collector, and other end going to primary positive)

Sorry i missed this post from you......
Right i have it back on neg to neg and it seems to be creeping up further than ever before. Around 12.47v. Previous best was 12.44v. It's drawing 210ma. I currently have 2 coils on it though. I disconnected the run wires on the new coil and have use crocodile clips to connect the start and finish of the trigger wire to the existing circuit. Effectively a trifilar but with the 3rd trigger wire on a seperate coil haha. Will change that tomorrow though.

[Marine]

you want only one trigger for a wheel regardless of how many coils you add(any second coils will not need triggers just power windings), i think you got your wires mixed up, you want the smaller wire as the trigger and bigger ones as your power coil... unless you remembered wrong... its easy to add more wires, keep trigger as is, connect 2 power windings together at both ends( both starts connected, and both ends connected) then just hook it up as you usually would.... when you deal with bigger and more wires you will want each wire going to its own transistor but you dont have to worry about that for now as your transistor should be able to handle 2 power wires fine

The thinner wire is the one i am using for the run wire. The run wire is what turns the circuit on and off correct? And the thicker wire to collect the energy? Just to be clear.

[Brodie Gwilliam]

the trigger is the thinner wire, i believe it collects a surge of power from the magnet, and turns the transistor on, once the transistor is on it sucks power from the main (bigger wire, (battery + to trasistor collector)) coil for a brief period of time, this short pulse creates a radiant spike that charges the battery(or lights neon if charge battery unconnected), also the bigger wire pulse is the one that will either attract or repel the rotor, causing the wheel to spin

[Marine]

the trigger is the thinner wire, i believe it collects a surge of power from the magnet, and turns the transistor on, once the transistor is on it sucks power from the main (bigger wire, (battery + to trasistor collector)) coil for a brief period of time, this short pulse creates a radiant spike that charges the battery(or lights neon if charge battery unconnected), also the bigger wire pulse is the one that will either attract or repel the rotor, causing the wheel to spin

Oh for gods sake lol. I had a suspicion i had the wires wrong. Or should i say The Daftman uses different terminology to Bedini. I remember now watching his videos and thinking....hang on a sec a swear Bedini calls the trigger wire what Daftman is calling the run wire?? lol This is the trouble with following one persons view of another persons circuit. Peole can call bits different names etc lol.
I knew the thinner wire was the one that powers the circuit as you say. But i thought it (thanks to Daftman) was called the run wire. As in making the circuit "run" lol. Oh well thanks for clearing that disaster up for me! I will change the wires over now and see what improvement i get.....thank you!

[Marine]

Right. I've swapped the wires over now so the thinner wire is the trigger and the thicker wire is the run wire/charge wire. If someone can check on this circuit that that is correct that would be handy so i can triple check

I noticed straight away it was charging higher. It's also drawing more from the primary battery though. It was 200ma before, now the lowest i can get is 280ma. But that was probably because before i still had the other coil (un plugged) up against the wheel which must have been acting as a load which brought the draw down.
It's now charging at 12.70v and climbing ever so slightly. That's a new record for me! haha.
It is also neg to neg.
Is neg to neg ok to run all the time?
Can i expect to get anymore than 12.70v on this bifilar monopole? Or has my this machines goal been achieved?
Is charging at 12.7v whilst drawing 280ma from the primary battery good enough? Or still too high for the average machine of this type?

[Tom C]

my very first SG was a bifilar 23/26 850 turns... mjl 21194 transistor, 100 ohm resistor grain of wheat bulb and potentiometer. charged best at 2 pulses per magnet pass. primary draw was 45 milliamps. 26 inch bike wheel, 21 magnets. it charged a 7 amp hour werker battery in 16 hours to 16.2 volts... rpm was 180. 8 minute 30 second freewheel time. primary started at 12.87, charge battery was 12.2 at the end of run primary was at 12.10


Tom C

[Brodie Gwilliam]

that circuit does look correct, as tom said dont expect full charges to come in an hour or two, it can take days sometimes in regular mode depending on battery/coil....

You should try playing with regular mode, and neg to neg, they have their differences and its nice to personally view them yourself.... it may take a lot longer to charge a battery in regular mode compared to generator mode(neg to neg) but the primary battery will also drop alot slower too.... mode 1(regular mode) is said to have better de-sulphate effects to keep your batteries in better shape