Video of Bedini SSG-esqe alternate magent arrangement rotor

[Faraday88]

Hi Paul,
I like where you are headed with this. My introduction on the scene years back was via pure magnet motors. This led me to the SSG so it was natural to combine them. I had to dig it out of a box:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3484[/ATTACH]
I found that having the magnets on the outside was less conducive to people cringing around the dinner table otherwise known as my workbench :-)
I look forward to your progress.
Kind Regards,
Patrick A.

The Wankel Engine!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[ZPDM]

Hi Faraday,

Appreciate the comment and note this is the second time you have enthusiastically mentioned the Wankel motor. I suppose there may be some similarities, my understanding is the Wankel engine is a type of internal combustion engine not an electric pulse motor with a magnetic ramp using a bipolar commutator where you may also catch the inductive/radiant spike from the drive coil. Again, appreciate your excitement can you elaborate on your comment further?

[ZPDM]

A Question for people with electronics background.

As I don't have the formal training in this area as much to most or all of the board I don't know if this is a simple high school/college electrical engineering question or something actually puzzling. If the former, if someone on the board might be kind enough to humor me with some basic textbook knowledge it would be appreciated if the later I would also appreciate thoughts and comments.

By way of background we know that when the drive coil in a pulse motor setup has the inductive spike rectified into a load, say a battery, the rotor will paradoxically increase in speed. When a pickup coil is brought near a spinning pulse motor there is a slight decrease in rpms (this is maybe 5-10% if using a magnetic ramp set-up). However, if the electricity in a pick-up coil is rectified and put into a load, a capacitor or battery, the rotor slows down further, sometimes dramatically. If put into a cap, as the cap fills the rotor again picks up speed, returning to its former speed as the cap fills. This makes me think it is the actual power flowing out of the coil that is slowing the rotor. If put to a battery say a 1.5 volt battery, the rotor again slows. Here is the problem it occurred to me that once the battery is seemingly full, the rotor still remains dragged down, that is to say if the battery is full, there shouldn't be power flowing from the coil but the rotor remains slowed. This implies to me perhaps one of three things 1) the battery isn't actually full and if I left a 1.5 volt battery go until it is was 1.9 volts or so the rotor would return to normal speed. If not then that would not seem to fit Lenz's Law (I am going to have to entirely and fully charge a 1.5 volt battery and compare rotational speed with a depleted 1.5 volt battery when charged from a pick-up coil.) 2) What it actually cares about is the voltage difference between the coil and load, independent of current flow, again that wouldn't fit with Lenz. or 3) This isn't about Lenz, there is some other variable, something else going on that I don't know about. I think it has to be that the battery isn't actually full, but then again I don't know.

So that is the question, why does a pulse motor rotor slow when a pick-up coil is connected to load?

Thx

[Tom C]

http://www.emref.net/wankel.htm

[ZPDM]

Thank you Tom,

Great information and encouraging, I look forward to reading it in more depth, I get now what Faraday was saying. I do know that Bedini has successfully built something along these lines years ago. When I look at the first link (from your provided link) it is similar to what I am doing with a few differences. The Wankel is rotating a permanent magnet along a ramp of permanent magnets (from the figure it seems to running in repulsion as the rotor is running "uphill" against the ramp gradient[unless there is some Howard Johnson thing going on]). The Magnets in the Wankel are also angled as I said in my video I was looking at things like that but for now I am leaving them pointing straight out. I am spinning the ramp on the rotor with the motive force for the magnetic ramp provided not by other permanent magnets but by the iron core of the power coil. Just glancing however, I see that Tom Bearden mentions that the secret is confining the back mmf to a small region which my set-up should also do. I will have less mmf as the ramp is from iron core to permanent magnet, not permanent magnet to permanent magnet, it still pulls though quite noticeably. Also my intent at the moment for this is, unlike the Wankel, go with four ramps, alternating N-> S etc, and controlled by a bipolar commutator. Alternatively depending on how things go, my set-up could be run monopole as just a slight variation on the traditional SSG with say a little ramp before each magnet. Don't know enough yet how things will behave. I may also look at shielding at the confined mmf point or sticking point as I call it. I think you are the one who mentioned I should put this thing on a dynomometer and I am waiting on the spring scales. Intend to look first at a just two magnets 180 apart, simple pulse motor, then build the ramp looking at efficiency as the ramp progresses. Then once the bipolar commutator circuit is built do the same with the last two ramps. You don't happen to sell pre-made Bedini Sequential Bipolar Commutator circuits through TeslaGenx do you Tom? Again, thanks for the information.

[AlvaroHN]

About the gen coil slowing down the rotor, I have seen the same, when the cap is empty the gen coil drags a lot, when it fills the drag goes away.

Say the wave that the gen coil produces is 20 volts from 0 to the peek, and you have an empty cap, the cap will suck all the width of the wave, but when the cap already have 10 volts only a part of the wave will go into the cap (the part above 10 volts), when cap is 15v only the part of the wave above 15v will be used. .. and so on.

If you dump the cap into a battery will would never have an empty cap, it will start at 12v.

This is all explained in the sg advanced handbook.

Best

Alvaro

[ZPDM]

Thx Alvaro,

My theoretical understanding for why this happens from a gen, or pick-up coil as I call it, is as follows: Lenz law says when a current flows in a coil from a changing magnetic field it creates a magnetic field which is opposite the field which induced the current, hence no COP>1 with Lenz. So when a cap is empty a lot current flows through the gen coil, a lot of drag, as the cap partially fills less current less drag, filled cap, no current no drag. What confuses me is that when looking at a battery instead of a cap and say charge from a gen coil a dead battery from 1.0 -> 1.5 volts, even once the battery is charged, hence no current should be flowing through the gen coil it still slows the rotor. My guess is that 1) I need to get the battery to 2 volts before it is really and truly charged 2) even fully charged the electrolyte in a battery is sort of a cushion that will absorb current even if not creating a further voltage difference between plates. Actually as I am writing I realized what I need to do is set up an ammeter from the gen coil and look at it when connected to a full 1.5 volt battery. If current is still flowing everything is fine and per Lenz law. If the full battery means (like the full cap) current is not flowing, but the battery is still dragging the rotor slower then Houston we have a problem. I am 99% certain this will follow Lenz law but who knows. What I have been doing the past hour is charging a 5 volt super cap to 6 volts and seeing what happens when connected to a gen coil, the rpms dropped from like 473 to 453 which doesn't really tell me anything. There could still be a little current flowing into the supercap or again the change might be only from the voltage difference of about 20 volts from gen coil to 6 volts in cap. I really think this will all resolve conventionally to Lenz's law but I will at some point need to set up an ammeter to be sure.

Ciao,

Paul

[ZPDM]

Slight detour while I waited for parts. This video shows the radiant gating in from a discharging capacitor.

[ZPDM]

All my parts arrived for the dynamo-meter (great word) and after I have set everything up I will try to post video looking at the efficiency of a magnetic ramp type motor. In the meantime I am posting a second video of measuring and collecting the radiant spike from a collapsing capacitor. I could leave things there but I will go on for awhile and start by just saying I have been a bit stunned by the results of this experiment for a couple days now, and it came together on the first try.

So for background, we know per Faraday when there is a changing magnetic field strength it induces a current in a nearby conductor, loop the conductor and get a lot of electricity and current flowing. When the run coil on a Bedini SSG has the power shut off, the magnetic field collapses really, really quickly, -> high voltage, brief "inductive" spike. I had half convinced myself that this was the whole story and that while it could be COP > 1 no one had ever just bothered to make use of the inductive spike previously. Of course there was the problem of the backward set-up to the charging, but maybe with all the changes going on in the coil what was a relative ground at one time might be something different when the coil was discharging. Didn't make a lot of sense but tidied up the story.

I was wrong on a number of fronts, what got me thinking was the Tesla switch (just picked by the EFV video on this and look forward to viewing it soon). Here there is only a changing electric (hence magnetic field) but no copper coils involved, yet it is still reported as overunity. Without wire to transduce the varying magnetic field into current, what is going on, how could there be anything? So what I did to be plain as day is this, take a capacitor and fill it. Connect the + of that capacitor to the - of a second cap. Connect the - of the 1st cap to a Bedini (blocking/reversed) diode then to the + of the second cap. Discharge the first cap. When done, the second cap receives a pulse of "negative" electricity which positively charges it. As shown now in two videos it works and it worked on the first try.

There a number of things here 1) there was no conductive wire to transduce the changing magnetic field into electricity yet the second cap showed a change in potential. 2) There is no getting around now that it is hooked up backwards, it was "negative" energy in the cap discharge spike. 3) I didn't look formally at it, but just from what I eyeballed there was no change it rotor speed between when you discharged the cap and did not hook up a second cap as compared with when you had the second cap capturing the radiant, it is free energy in that sense. 4) I don't want to make too much of this yet as I looked at it over a very small range (many physiologic systems follow a sigmoidal curve which may end up being the case here) but over a narrow range, when a smaller first cap was used, this cap a) had the same power going into it as the larger cap b) had a higher voltage when discharged. The smaller cap yielded a much more powerful radiant into the second cap.

So while not on video, I tried looking at this not from a pickup coil charging a cap, but from the spike from the drive coil (i.e. much higher voltage and more powerful) after frying three reed switches in a row trying to get it to consistently discharge I realized I need an altered approach. I think what I will try and do is if I can get maybe 400 volts into a small cap use a spark gap to discharge. Along those lines I have two or three USB plasma balls still lying around (on sale for 5 bucks each, Hartley Oscillator I believe) in various states of dismantlement. These take 5 volts and go up to a couple to a few thousand volts and seem a reasonable testbed for looking at this further in future. For now I will shelve it and return to looking at the magnetic ramp/Wankel! rotor set-up. I thought this was worth sharing though, I know I got and am getting a kick out of it.

[ZPDM]

1st video of (partial) magnetic ramp/Wankel type setup with hall effect sensors and Bedini Bipolar commutator circuit. Since this I have completed more of the magnetic ramps and seen a bit further improvement in performance. Just a random few thoughts off the top of my head before getting to the video. 1) If the bipolar commutator is original work, it might be lot of rigamarole, but that might be worth patenting as it might modestly improve a number of different things, no "free" energy with the circuit but no free energy with improved wind shield wipers either. 2) The effect I saw with discharging caps shown in two previous videos is real as far as I can tell. As I showed in one video it does not seem to be coming from the coil and with using (I don't know I think they are thin film, they look like plastic) caps instead of electrolytic I got 6-7 volts out with a 3-4 volt input, so it isn't bleeding through from the input either. I speculated the dependance was on the increasing voltage difference with smaller caps, now I think, while that is part of it, it is more the more abrupt rapid discharge from smaller caps (faster RC time if I have the terminology correct). Without having looked at it I am guessing you get maybe 5% of the power out with the set-up I showed as compared to the power going directly into a pickup coil. I am going to look to return to this in future.

Here is the video, nothing earth shattering but enough to be optimistic, I just picked this up as a hobby and I am happy to just see the thing spin! I am looking forward to dynomometer tests but it continues to look interesting and that is a good thing. Sorry that for some reason the video seems upside down.

[ZPDM]

Quick update on cap discharge radiant energy and mag ramp/Wankel motor project.

On cap discharge -> radiant I am leaving off on it for now. From everything I can see it is real, the problem I have is whenever I go over 3V input 400 rpms on wheel the reed switch shorting the cap locks up, a number of different reeds as well. Makes no sense, it is a tiny cap at maybe 25V at absolute most but continues happening. I tried using a hall effect to transistor and shorted the cap fine, but lost 95% of the radiant effect. I don't know enough about switching to so something useful with this at the moment, but it is there. If I have a go at the Tesla switch at some point and learn about opto couplers and matched transistors etc maybe return to it, but one last time, until shown otherwise this effect is real and those more adept in electronics than I could likely make use of it.

On the mag ramp motor, good news. 1) I figured a way to center the bearings better, 2) completed nearly all of the ramp and 3) found a traitor in the midst with my first set-up, i.e. on a N facing ramp had one of the magnets backwards facing south in the middle of the ramp. This slowed things down a good bit. At this point with my glued together CDs rotor, when freewheeling it is doing over 1500 rpms at 3.0 V and maybe 0.09 amps. Still need to completely finish the ramp then maybe do a two minute video showing it work. Oddly enough it seems to do about 100 rpms better when running in repulsion. Might be asymmetry of magnetic forces or something else I don't know, does seems to negate my reasoning of having a magnetic ramp attracted to the iron core, but it works. Also hooked up the BR to capture drive coil spike while running and that works fine as well.

Will try to run some dynomometer test but this has not been as straightforward as I'd like either. Will try and make a brief video in near future showing progress.

[ZPDM]

Haven't done anything on this recently but I am going to return to it now as time may permit. I did a few more things in this area and/or left out some things that I find interesting and wish to share. First as regards the radiant energy from capacitive discharge, I realize this is a small pool of "reviewers" but it is a very smart small pool of reviewers. I am describing something weird and no one has shot me down yet or pointed out it was common knowledge, so first I will say a little more on this then go back to the motor. If you discharge a capacitor say to a battery or by shorting it, and at the same time have a second capacitor hooked to the first "Bedini style", that is to say neg of first cap to pos of second cap. pos of first cap through Bedini/blocking diode to neg of second cap the second cap positively charges. Not a lot but is there. It is the exact same thing you see with catching the radiant off a coil and you can do it with a cap. It is a clear demonstration of "negative" energy. As there are no wire coils involved the negative "radiant" is either not primarily an inductive/magnetic phenomena or a lot of the collapsing magnetic field of a coil is, for whatever reason, not transduced and captured as negative energy. This finding of negative energy from a shorted cap might also be compared with (not to be hubristic, just saying it looks like the same thing) Telsa's discovery of radiant energy from high power DC lines being switched on at Niagara falls (with radiant spikes jumping from the wires), again no coils. It also seems to me related to the Tesla switch phenomena.

So what I did that I haven't mentioned in this area is look at different caps. Got best results with thin film(tantulum?) caps. So if in the previous video I was at maybe 2-3 volts with small electrolytics, got to 5-8V with thin film. Then I tried different discharge pulse rates and pulse width modulation using an Arduino set-up. Got to maybe 8-12V from memory maybe a bit better. This from a 20 Volt input into a cap and again the input power never changed and also if you were say discharging the cap into a low voltage battery it has no effect on the rest of the circuit there, it is free energy in that sense. While I haven't looked I am guessing 1-10% extra power. As the improvement in the radiant occurred entirely from changing caps, discharge rates, duty cycle and is not very dependent on amps, in the back of my mind I was sort of hoping I might see say 30V out from the 20V pick-up coil, as that could lead me to a "welcome to my underground lair, Dr Powers" scenario,

Synopsis: There is a negative energy radiant spike from any discharge of a capacitor, it is easily captured with a "Bedini" set-up. It is modifiable by cap type and size (i.e. voltage) and (as with capturing off an inductor ala Bedini SSG) pulse rate, pulse width and abruptness of discharge. It remains to be seen whether it could significantly improve COP as is the case with capturing the spike off an inductor. A fast discharging, high voltage cap might prove interesting. Someone should scope this to know the parameters that improve things better.

Concerning the magnetic ramp/Wankle type engine. I did do an efficiency test and got about 40%. At first I was a bit discouraged but I realized I often just throw these things away and start something else far too easily and considering my materials, build and skills that really wasn't so bad. What I plan to do now is make a C shaped core which will bring both ends of the coil into rotor driving position. If I can get 70-80% with both ends of the coil, then I should be pretty much in the zone as long as there is anything significant from the radiant spike.

While I put everything on the shelf, the one half of the darn Bedini bipolar commutator circuit isn't working. Tested the transistors and Hall effects and they are fine so something is screwed and I have to rebuild it from scratch. Fortunately this "should" take an afternoon or less now, not two weeks. Got lots more I want to look at with this, either moving closer or further away from the Wankle set-up. Will see what time I can spare for it this Spring.

[min2oly]

Haven't done anything on this recently but I am going to return to it now as time may permit. I did a few more things in this area and/or left out some things that I find interesting and wish to share. First as regards the radiant energy from capacitive discharge, I realize this is a small pool of "reviewers" but it is a very smart small pool of reviewers. I am describing something weird and no one has shot me down yet or pointed out it was common knowledge, so first I will say a little more on this then go back to the motor. If you discharge a capacitor say to a battery or by shorting it, and at the same time have a second capacitor hooked to the first "Bedini style", that is to say neg of first cap to pos of second cap. pos of first cap through Bedini/blocking diode to neg of second cap the second cap positively charges. Not a lot but is there. It is the exact same thing you see with catching the radiant off a coil and you can do it with a cap. It is a clear demonstration of "negative" energy. As there are no wire coils involved the negative "radiant" is either not primarily an inductive/magnetic phenomena or a lot of the collapsing magnetic field of a coil is, for whatever reason, not transduced and captured as negative energy. This finding of negative energy from a shorted cap might also be compared with (not to be hubristic, just saying it looks like the same thing) Telsa's discovery of radiant energy from high power DC lines being switched on at Niagara falls (with radiant spikes jumping from the wires), again no coils. It also seems to me related to the Tesla switch phenomena.

So what I did that I haven't mentioned in this area is look at different caps. Got best results with thin film(tantulum?) caps. So if in the previous video I was at maybe 2-3 volts with small electrolytics, got to 5-8V with thin film. Then I tried different discharge pulse rates and pulse width modulation using an Arduino set-up. Got to maybe 8-12V from memory maybe a bit better. This from a 20 Volt input into a cap and again the input power never changed and also if you were say discharging the cap into a low voltage battery it has no effect on the rest of the circuit there, it is free energy in that sense. While I haven't looked I am guessing 1-10% extra power. As the improvement in the radiant occurred entirely from changing caps, discharge rates, duty cycle and is not very dependent on amps, in the back of my mind I was sort of hoping I might see say 30V out from the 20V pick-up coil, as that could lead me to a "welcome to my underground lair, Dr Powers" scenario,

Synopsis: There is a negative energy radiant spike from any discharge of a capacitor, it is easily captured with a "Bedini" set-up. It is modifiable by cap type and size (i.e. voltage) and (as with capturing off an inductor ala Bedini SSG) pulse rate, pulse width and abruptness of discharge. It remains to be seen whether it could significantly improve COP as is the case with capturing the spike off an inductor. A fast discharging, high voltage cap might prove interesting. Someone should scope this to know the parameters that improve things better.

Concerning the magnetic ramp/Wankle type engine. I did do an efficiency test and got about 40%. At first I was a bit discouraged but I realized I often just throw these things away and start something else far too easily and considering my materials, build and skills that really wasn't so bad. What I plan to do now is make a C shaped core which will bring both ends of the coil into rotor driving position. If I can get 70-80% with both ends of the coil, then I should be pretty much in the zone as long as there is anything significant from the radiant spike.

While I put everything on the shelf, the one half of the darn Bedini bipolar commutator circuit isn't working. Tested the transistors and Hall effects and they are fine so something is screwed and I have to rebuild it from scratch. Fortunately this "should" take an afternoon or less now, not two weeks. Got lots more I want to look at with this, either moving closer or further away from the Wankle set-up. Will see what time I can spare for it this Spring.

I must have something connected wrong, can you show me what I need to change or do a quick drawing of your own?
Thanks - Patrick

[ZPDM]

I must have something connected wrong, can you show me what I need to change or do a quick drawing of your own?
Thanks - Patrick
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4514[/ATTACH]

Hi Patrick,

The switch is in the wrong place, when does the primary cap ever discharge the switch is only between it and the battery, the primary cap needs to vent its energy out to another low voltage battery or be shorted or what not. So the cap dump switch needs to be between the + and - of the primary cap not where it is now. It won't work with the set-up from the diagram. I'll be curious to know how it works with a battery instead of pick-up coil charging the cap, I suppose that could be a problem, you will be shorting the bat at the same time as the cap but I think you will see the effect if you move the switch.

If you take a look at the two vids I posted on page 4 Radiant from Cap 1 and 2, they detail my set-up. Good luck.

[ZPDM]

Patrick,

I am very glad you asked the question that you did. I had previously very briefly looked at this effect with a battery charged cap and was pretty certian it was there though subtle, but that was before I understood the effect at all. So your question made me revisit this and I was wondering in the back of my mind if perhaps I wasn't just somehow shorting the pick-up coil through the cap in my previous videos. So short answer no, I repeated this with a 9v-18V battery to thin cap and it workd fine. I will try to get a video of this made soon showing it does work with your style set-up, with the switch moved to the correct place, though that is not why I am writing. I am writing because I fiddled around more with this, there was one problem I was seeing (aside from the battery shorting problem) and when I found an answer, for me at least it was a "wow" or perhaps something much more profane sort of finding. Not certain if I have the engineering or technical skills to easily translate it into something practical or useful, maybe the board will help me, but this quite bluntly is a Poor Man's Tesla Switch. Will try to get a vid out in a day-week.