Zero Force Motor Replication Project

[min2oly]

Question. Does the motor in this video represent the principle of the ZFM with a trigger coil? It starts out in the standard SSG configuration and then the coil is flipped horizontal.

DMann

Yes - Patrick

[min2oly]

Hi John K,
In DVD 25 John shows similar if not the very same blue rotor.



Hi min2oly,
I think it is 8 magnets on the rotor and 3 on the timing wheel. John uses timing wheel with 3 poles at 120 degree with the full bipolar switch on the window motors. Probably he had it at hand and decided to use it just to show the proof of concept.


Regards
Lman

Yes, thought I said that... however - minus the 120 degree part. you can not line up 8 and 3 :-) so I thought perhaps he miss-spoke, or he just lined up 3 trigger mangets with 3 on the wheel.
K.R. - Patrick

[Yaro1776]

Try doing this first before getting into too much money...

Hello min2oly,

Thanks for bringing up that video again - I believe that I have viewed it nearly a dozen times and each time something new appears. Anyway, I will continue on this path to replicate the original demo model - a better and more educational investment than wine, women and song - done that!

This last video by JB really nails what the ZFM is all about and the principles are there...

I am just about finished with the current iteration of the prototype and ready to move on to the next phase, but a few points observed from a few simple tests yesterday morning:

1) I released the shaft/bearing set screws and moved the magnet rotor in and out from the coil centerline to determine the maximum of displacement before rpm loss - this yielded about 1/2" in either direction, rather forgiving. Also observed the shaft slowly being pushed away from the coil during rotation.

2) Rotated the reed switch mount in either direction to see the limits of angular motion before the rpm's dropped off. The existing firing arc as controlled by the timing wheel is about 70 - 75 degrees (best rpm). The total motion observed was about 40 degrees - need to check this again since theoretically there should only be 15 - 20 degrees available.

3) The timing wheel has 2 sets of opposing Neo magnets (0.250" dia x 0.125" thick) double stacked for a total of eight Neo's - best rpm estimated at 200-250 at 24 volts with a 2.8 amp draw. At 12 volts rpm drops off to about 100. Removing a layer of Neo's (4 total) drops the rpm to about a 100 - 120 at 24 volts ; the firing arc is reduced to about 45 degrees. At 12 volts the rpm becomes about 60.

4) After the above simple tests the proto ZFM was brought back to the starting configuration and run for over five minutes. The coil temperature became hot to the touch and the motor was shut down. Temperature of the coil surface read 125 degrees F and the BP switch circuit at 99 F. Not happy with these temps, but the machine is still in a raw state.

A few more things to check and then moving on to the next mods - very educational process.

One question - Aaron in an early post mentioned that the toroidal coils were 4 strands in series connected serially, but wound in a figure eight pattern. What does this mean?

Yaro

[Lman]

Thanks Patrick. Was there another video showing the rotor magnets (stopped) and the timing wheel?

John K.

Hi John K,
In DVD 25 John shows similar if not the very same blue rotor.

That would have been nice... John mentioned using only 3 poles and the wheel having 8 magnets... perhaps a miss-speak. It doesn't sound like that part was all that important to create the effect though.

Hi min2oly,
I think it is 8 magnets on the rotor and 3 on the timing wheel. John uses timing wheel with 3 poles at 120 degree with the full bipolar switch on the window motors. Probably he had it at hand and decided to use it just to show the proof of concept.


Regards
Lman

[Faraday88]

Hi ZPD,

Yes I felt the same thing...why not ask Peter or Tom himself on this and Many such doubts...
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[ZPDM]

Question. Does the motor in this video represent the principle of the ZFM with a trigger coil? It starts out in the standard SSG configuration and then the coil is flipped horizontal.

DMann

DMann,

Yes that is the ZFM effect. It is painful commenting this soon after JB's passing, I feel like there should be a week or month or two off. So much for us lost, pretty sure there is a relationship between gravity and the changing magnetic field JB sure hinted at it, who do we ask now? JB was a little closed about this motor, granted the times are different but it might be a better motor than anything Tesla came up with. Look at the videos I posted (the times are all jumbled but the info is there) . I am not a "gearhead" but my halfasz, half built motor ran well. So yes use big honking mags and distribute the flux ... that's my guess. I honestly don't know but I wonder whether, built well, this motor would run itself.

[Faraday88]

Question. Does the motor in this video represent the principle of the ZFM with a trigger coil? It starts out in the standard SSG configuration and then the coil is flipped horizontal.

DMann

Hi DMann,

Tom essentially shows the two monopole orientation of the 3-pole monopole ..can you guess what could be the 3 rd orientation..and these three imply..?(in the commentary he does mention about it in the physics terms..) the two dount Magnets are for balancing purpose.. i do'nt think they show any relevance to the ZFM.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[DMANN]

Question. Does the motor in this video represent the principle of the ZFM with a trigger coil? It starts out in the standard SSG configuration and then the coil is flipped horizontal.

DMann

[min2oly]

Thanks Patrick. Was there another video showing the rotor magnets (stopped) and the timing wheel?

John K.

That would have been nice... John mentioned using only 3 poles and the wheel having 8 magnets... perhaps a miss-speak. It doesn't sound like that part was all that important to create the effect though.

[John_Koorn]

Thanks Patrick. Was there another video showing the rotor magnets (stopped) and the timing wheel?

John K.

[min2oly]

Try doing this

[Yaro1776]

Hi Yaro,

Regarding the low rpm performance, it occurs to me that the grade of the 4 rotor magnets (from Neo N36 weakest to N52 strongest) has not been referred to on this forum (or I have missed that info). I believe the stronger the rotor magnets are, the better performance in torque and rpm can be attained.

Perhaps the magnets grade used in the prototype was a question at the Conference from someone to Peter or John?

My other observation from your pictures on your build is that the rotor magnets are too far away from the coils poles, this may also be a reason for the low rpm. I know this can only be remedied by rebuilding the rotor, a problematic and costly process if this too big distance proves indeed to be an issue.

My replication has been on, I asked for some mechanical help at my ex workplace and I have all the components for the bipolar switch to assemble too. Hopefully in one or two weeks time I can switch my build on too.

Greetings
Gyula

Hey Gyula,

Thanks for your thoughts and observations.

The magnet question has been on my mind also, but for this effort I went with the readily available N40 grade 0.75" diameter x 0.25" thick. The Neo's are epoxied to the rotor, however a new rotor can always be machined. This modification is a bit further down the road - read below

With respect to the coil to rotor clearance you are correct. A new coil can be wound using the same wire lengths (~280 ft) and expanded on the rotor side by inserting a plastic shim, hence making the final wind a bit fatter on the rotor side. The existing coils are 2.8 to 2.9 ohms and yield a total series resistance of 5.8 to 5.9 ohms. The next set of toroidal coils will be wound with two strands AWG#20 - the original proto coils are 4 strands AWG#20, but getting a consistent and smooth shape is fairly difficult.

Keep us up to date on your build progress,
Yaro

[Aaron Murakami]

Thanks for keeping this topic alive everyone.

Congrats on your first replication attempt Jaro - inspiring me to make my own!

Looking forward to seeing the progress as you advance the model.

[Gyula]

Hi Yaro,

Just watched your video, congratulations for building your ZFM and making it rotate from the available info on it. I do hope it operates close to the principle John intended to teach us. Very sad turns of events that John cannot comment this any more.

Regarding the low rpm performance, it occurs to me that the grade of the 4 rotor magnets (from Neo N36 weakest to N52 strongest) has not been referred to on this forum (or I have missed that info). I believe the stronger the rotor magnets are, the better performance in torque and rpm can be attained.

Perhaps the magnets grade used in the prototype was a question at the Conference from someone to Peter or John?

My other observation from your pictures on your build is that the rotor magnets are too far away from the coils poles, this may also be a reason for the low rpm. I know this can only be remedied by rebuilding the rotor, a problematic and costly process if this too big distance proves indeed to be an issue.

My replication has been on, I asked for some mechanical help at my ex workplace and I have all the components for the bipolar switch to assemble too. Hopefully in one or two weeks time I can switch my build on too.

Greetings
Gyula

[Yaro1776]

Intial ZFM Prototype Test Run

Greetings to all,

This past week has certainly been full of surprises on several fronts. The late John Bedini was a major inspiration in pushing me into the world of the unseen and unknown. The ZFM caught my attention at the 2016 Energy Conference and subsequently sucked me into trying to replicate it without my having any real idea of how this would work out from just digital pictures and crude measurements with a piece of graph paper. A Challenge for sure...

Most of the process has been described to an extent within this thread and finally the ZFM beast was assembled. A labor of love that I had hoped to have operational several weeks ago.

In any case, the machine finally was made operational last Wednesday and it would auto rotate when powered up. The initial results were truly underwhelming due in part to an excess of bearing friction and other minor issues. The bearings were removed, the seals trashed and the grease cleaned out of the races. After reinstalling the bearings a light turbine oil was squirted into the bearings for lubrication. The alignment in the ZFM assembly was carefully completed and the net result was worth the effort.

The performance of this prototype at this stage of development is not overwhelming ~200-250 rpm with a draw of 2.8 amps at 24 volts. However meager are these results, there is a proof of concept here.

https://youtu.be/rm6_H9kzqYQ

In essence, the ZFM runs - the reed switches and rotor trigger the Bipolar switch, the coils flip polarity. Now comes the more challenging aspect of the ZFM and that is to realize its full potential in a progressive manner.

In closing, again a huge thank you to all that have helped out in making this ZFM project a reality and, in particular, to John Bedini for his assistance and encouragement

As usual all comments and suggestions relevant to this thread are welcomed!

Stay tuned,

Yaro