Zero Force Motor Replication Project

[Yaro1776]

I would say the only difference between the ZFM and the LCF motor, is which "zero" it is running on.

Irrespective of all the different names they were all "Zero Vacuum Engines", an interesting and intriguing term, indeed.

[Davy Oneness]

Hi Richard,



I have a folder I downloaded called "Bedini -Cole Window Motor Lab Notes" that I think Dave Wing posted a couple of years ago. One file shows a "multi pole inside out Faraday motor" dated 8-1988 (Cole - Bedini). In another file (by Cole) dated 9-1989 it's called a "6x6 LCF motor" and looks to be the same as a 6 pole window motor. And in a file dated 8-1988 (Brown, Cole, Bedini) showing the details of the rotor, it's called an LCF DC motor (Linear Counter Field). I think these are all early terms to describe what we now call a "window motor".

And there is yet another file showing a "Faraday type Ironless Motor" which looks to be what we now call the "Zero Force Motor" (ZFM).

My take away is that the window motor and the ZFM are two different versions of an ironless Faraday motor and exhibit very similar operating characteristics.

I would say the only difference between the ZFM and the LCF motor, is which "zero" it is running on.

[Deuis]

Another set of magnets closer to success.....

[Yaro1776]

ZFM Neo Barbecue

Hello All,

After the 2017 Energy Conference and armed with the newest ZFM details from Peter L. I ordered four 1"Dx3/8"T Neo's and sent my spare rotor to the shop to have the appropriate counterbore machined for the 1" Neo's. Finished with my vacation, I proceeded to assemble the modified rotor with the Neo upgrade using a Loctite 332 structural adhesive (334 will work also). Just prior to applying the adhesive I placed one Neo on the rotor to check the fit. Bad move! Removing it was a chore and I may have damaged one Neo. I finally removed it with a wood clamp and proceeded to glue all the Neo's to the rotor.

The assembly and gluing was straightforward. Clean all surfaces with acetone, apply the primer on the Neo's and apply the adhesive to the rotor. I used a plastic clamp to insert the Neo's - man these little Neo's are very powerful. They jumped out of the clamp to the rotor. Wearing gloves, I twisted the Neo's to seat them properly and set them outside to cure overnight. In the morning I placed the rotor assembly in a clear plastic salad container and let it cook in this mini solar oven for three hours until the adhesive was cured. Good to go!

The rotor was then mounted on the shaft and assembled into the YZFM. All the connections were completed and the unit started at 12v - no problem - 3800 RPM - no problems. The voltage was increased to 24v at 0 degrees advance and slowly increased to about 8,200 RPM when there was a pop and the ZFM stalled. Close inspection revealed one Neo had blown apart. Upon disassembly it was seen that one Neo had self destructed and damaged the other three Neo's - trashed!

Close Inspection of the faulty Neo revealed a failure of the coating and internal structure. Neo's are very brittle and apparently need to be handled very carefully as evidenced by this failed Neo. So what to do? Tried the brute force method of a chisel and a small sledge hammer - not very effective or very clean results.

Took a step back and used the techie noodle. Loctite 332 breaks down well over 400 degrees F and the Neo's start losing their strength around 200 degrees F. Fired up my barbecue grille and cranked it up to over 600 degrees F and then placed the rotor in an aluminum pan onto the grille and let it cook for 3/4 hour. Can't describe adequately the combo of Loctite 332 and burger grease odor. After the cooking interval the pan was removed and allowed to cool slowly.

Well sir, don't you know that the Neo's just dropped out of the rotor slicker than slush. The day was saved and the rotor can be used again. Ordered new Neo's and will try again end of the week or on Monday - hopefully with better results - may even use some fiberglass tape.

Safety glasses and gloves,
Yaro

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for pointing that out, Aaron.
In those notes dated 6-17-89 he refers to it as the LCF motor. It looks a lot like the window motor to me but I am not familiar enough with the ZFM or the other two to know the differences between the three of them..............

I have a folder I downloaded called "Bedini -Cole Window Motor Lab Notes" that I think Dave Wing posted a couple of years ago. One file shows a "multi pole inside out Faraday motor" dated 8-1988 (Cole - Bedini). In another file (by Cole) dated 9-1989 it's called a "6x6 LCF motor" and looks to be the same as a 6 pole window motor. And in a file dated 8-1988 (Brown, Cole, Bedini) showing the details of the rotor, it's called an LCF DC motor (Linear Counter Field). I think these are all early terms to describe what we now call a "window motor".

And there is yet another file showing a "Faraday type Ironless Motor" which looks to be what we now call the "Zero Force Motor" (ZFM).

My take away is that the window motor and the ZFM are two different versions of an ironless Faraday motor and exhibit very similar operating characteristics.

[Aaron Murakami]

On 7-21-17, Davy Oneness gave 5 links in his post. The second link shows JB's calculations on the ZFM.
He shows HP as 0.05866 and the elec. HP as 0.0495979. That's more mechanical horsepower out than electrical horsepower in for an overunity efficiency of 118% if I am understanding his labeling correctly. I do not see any description of his measuring methods for the mechanical horsepower.

It was my understanding those are Bedini-Cole notes that came way after the ZFM and are different. Some similarities, but different.

[ZPDM]

Hi Richard --

... My torque was tripled from the original magnets I had on my ZFM and my ZFM speed increased by 1/3. The torque now is equal to or a little bit stronger then the Peter L. build. The original magnet size was N52 3/4 inch round by 1/2 inch tall. These were changed to N52 2 inch by 1 inch by 1/2 inch. ...

I feel a need for speed!!!

-- James

"So yes use big honking mags and distribute the flux ... that's my guess." Post on this thread from 11/15/16. Earlier in the thread I said "Has anyone else been working on this recently? I have, I understand now why it is called a zero force motor and it is blowing my mind." I saw with really simple experiments there was no increasing Lenz with increasing permanent magnet strength or increasing electromagnet strength. From glancing at the conference notes there is some Lenz associated with the machine, however I think James makes the point well. Two points earlier in the thread from JB 1) "This machine is running in an “A” field where no magnetism should escape or effect anything on the outside of the machine." 2) " if the group can build and understand the way it operates in a simple form before you move on to a much bigger unit." JB said something else on this thread, " I want you to look up something that had to do with Joe Newman." I thought that was a pretty odd thing to say regarding the ZFM so I read Joe Newman's book and am real glad I did. Course he also said something about he came upon this while working on a magnetic motor, which is lost to us like the Giza pyramid right now.

[John_Koorn]

Yoiks!

John K.

[James McDonald]

Great results there James! Looking forward to a video of the improved setup, if you have time.

Just a word of warning when working with neo magnets. If they break, be very careful not to cut yourself with the shards or broken bits. I did this once and felt sick for a week, some sort of poisoning.

John K.

Hi John --

The attached picture is the damage caused when one magnet flip up off the rotor and crashed into two other magnets before
the rotor abruptly stopped with the magnets all mashed between the rotor and the coil.

-- James

[James McDonald]

That's great, James.
I can't wait to see a brake test.
Did you have a chance to see if the current draw went up?

Richard

Hi Richard --

I was not monitoring the current at this point in time due to this was only a test to see if the bigger
magnets produce more torque. I will be gluing magnets on my rotor for the rest of the week to try and
get ready for next weekend's testing. Can only handle one of these magnets at a time and will glue them
on one at a time with a 24 hour cure time of the Epoxy.

-- James

[James McDonald]

Great results there James! Looking forward to a video of the improved setup, if you have time.

Just a word of warning when working with neo magnets. If they break, be very careful not to cut yourself with the shards or broken bits. I did this once and felt sick for a week, some sort of poisoning.

John K.

Hi John --

Thanks for the warning but I wear thick gloves when handling these magnets. I am well aware of the fingers getting pinched or cut.
Been there Done That. The test was suppose to be a short test to see if the torque increased. I got carried away and kept on testing. I
will epoxy the magnets before the next test.

-- James

[John_Koorn]

Great results there James! Looking forward to a video of the improved setup, if you have time.

Just a word of warning when working with neo magnets. If they break, be very careful not to cut yourself with the shards or broken bits. I did this once and felt sick for a week, some sort of poisoning.

John K.

[James McDonald]

"To date there has been only two Zero Force Motor builds acknowledged as good replications of the Bedini Zero Force Motor. Please provide the links to these videos."

Hi James. My mistake, I only found one video of a brake test on a ZFM by DadHav on youtube.
DIY Dynamometer (Prony Brake)
This test indicated 56% efficiency on his ZFM.
The other brake test I found by Peter Lindemann was on a conventional electric motor, not a ZFM.
And although 56% is a poor showing, I am well aware that every motor has a sweet spot for efficiency depending on load, rpm and other factors so 56% under one set of conditions does not mean it can't go overunity under different conditions. At these power levels I believe the hydraulic bicycle disk brake would allow good testing duration (water spray or tray on disk may be required), controllability and readability (a single gage to read with no calculations for torque results by using a fish scale or a table scale). Putting a test run on video would eliminate the need to keep your eyes jumping back and forth and frantically writing notes as you change loading, you just freeze the video later as you note all readings (amps, volts, pounds, rpm) at each step when you change loading. I would mount the brake caliper on a lever arm with one end connected to the motor shaft with a bearing and the other end preferably one foot long with a contact point resting on the table scale. I have a Polder scale (I may have bought at Costco) 3/4" x 8" x 8" with a limit of 5kg/11pound and 1g/0.1 ounce resolution.

Hi Richard --

I just finished doing the new magnet test today. The results were positive. My torque was tripled from the original magnets I had on my ZFM and my ZFM speed increased by 1/3. The torque now is equal to or a little bit stronger then the Peter L. build. The original magnet size was N52 3/4 inch round by 1/2 inch tall. These were changed to N52 2 inch by 1 inch by 1/2 inch. The magnets were not glued at the time and they came off once the ZFM reached 9500 RPM running on +24 volts. Two magnets were destroyed in this test. The next test they will be glued. I expect to see higher RPM's with the next test. Good thing I bought two extra magnets. Another positive result from this test is my build stopped vibrating and now runs smooth. The biggest thing learned from this test is don't buy your magnets till you finish winding your coil. The magnet has to be at least the width of your finished coil so that the magnets's magnetic field cuts through all the magnet wire on your coil. My coil was very different from the original Peter L. build in that it has only one wire on each side but it's 18 gauge magnet wire which makes my coil bigger and wider to get the 3 ohm resistance I have on each side.

I feel a need for speed!!!

-- James

[Davy Oneness]

I went in and approved Aaron's post as well. Not sure why it was moderated either but hopefully everyone can see the thread/posts now.

John K.

Thanks for straightening it out. I bet the system flagged it because I posted pictures from a link instead of uploading to this system. Probably part of a porn spam filter on this site, I'm guessing...

[John_Koorn]

I went in and approved Aaron's post as well. Not sure why it was moderated either but hopefully everyone can see the thread/posts now.

John K.