Zero Force Motor Replication Project

[ZPDM]

Peter,

Many thanks. My last post was before I read your comment, just saw a lot of comments and figured I'd say something as I started the thread. That was a lot of information to digest, especially re the square magnetic material linking the magnets, don't see that every day. Thanks also for confirming the core was ABS it looked like iron to me at the conference but later guessed that might not work. I'm going to start on another replication soon, won't be the ZFM, but should be a ZFM, if we define it along the lines of John Koorn's comment of a machine running along the lines of flux. Will look at various parameters. If you have a minute and feel like answering, one question I would ask is do you consider the bipolar commutation essential to proper function of the machine or is it mainly just doubling the torque?

Ciao,

Paul

[Retep]

Peter,

Many thanks. My last post was before I read your comment, just saw a lot of comments and figured I'd say something as I started the thread. That was a lot of information to digest, especially re the square magnetic material linking the magnets, don't see that every day. Thanks also for confirming the core was ABS it looked like iron to me at the conference but later guessed that might not work. I'm going to start on another replication soon, won't be the ZFM, but should be a ZFM, if we define it along the lines of John Koorn's comment of a machine running along the lines of flux. Will look at various parameters. If you have a minute and feel like answering, one question I would ask is do you consider the bipolar commutation essential to proper function of the machine or is it mainly just doubling the torque?

Ciao,

Paul

Paul,

The bi-polar switching is required in the design I am talking about because the coils are used to actuate both North and South magnets on the rotor. It is not, however, required in all designs that John demonstrated over the years. Single-sided switching can be used for any coil that actuates only one pole (North or South) of a magnet.

I hope that answers your question.

Also, I have now uploaded the image for the timing of the motor in Post #88, so that should complete all of the details people will need for successful replications.

Peter

[Yaro1776]

ZFM Proto Testing and Video

Hello all,

Thank you Retep for continuing to take an active interest in this thread. Your participation, information and explanations are certainly appreciated by all.

Going forward with the ZFM Proto - well the Aluminum rotor of this Proto is obviously a dead issue, but it can still provide useful information about the characteristics of the machine itself. In that vein I have continued to test various configurations of the machine - mind you it has no real torque capability. Light finger pressure will slow it down.

Be that as it may, the motor is in a reasonable state of tune in that the rpm's are decent. The firing arc duration for this machine is approx. 60-65 degrees - the firing arc duration for the iron rotor may be very different. For this config the following has been noted:
1) 12 volt - 630 rpm - 1.4A
2) 24 volt -1700 rpm - 2.4A
3) 36 volt -2660 rpm - 3.18A

RPM's were measured with a laser Tach. Amperage with a clamp on meter and TET amp sensor to the computer. Utilizing a DATAQ 145 acquisition device to the computer.

So the next step was to reduce the firing arc duration to 50 - 55 degrees and note most of the results:
1) 12 volt - 500 rpm
2) 24 volt - 1300 rpm
3) 36 volt - 2150 rpm

I will rerun this and note the amperages and then edit the above. Please bear in mind that the coil heats up very rapidly at the higher voltages, in this experimenter's opinion the heat is too much for the plastic housing (125-135F) and minimizes the operational time to 5 minutes or so at max volts. Unknown how the demo machine runs with respect to coil temperature.

So here is the video of the above data.

https://youtu.be/wgDLDdxh2L8

The video graphically depicts the impact of input voltage on rpm with the computer display giving at least a visual affirmation of the changes.

It is interesting to note that there was really no amperage spike in the start Amps, most likely due to the fact that the machine had no load on it and it is low torque in this Proto configuration. See the attachment for start-up at 12 volts

ZFMAmp1.pdf

The grid in this pic is 83.3msec horizontal and 0.31A vertical for reference. Need to resolve the resolution on the .PDF's.

Since this Proto is a moot point with respect to the Aluminum rotor, the next step is to obtain the required ferromagnetic material and have the next rotor machined for the next series of tests with the 3/4"D x 3/8"T Neo array. I hope that my machinist has bagged his deer and ready to do some work again. Expect all this to come together sometime in December. However there still is a lot of playtime to be done with the existing configuration.

Best to all,
Yaro

[Retep]

Hi Peter

Do you have a ball park idea of the dimensions of the stator, and in particular the air gap dimensions. The air gap will significantly increase the reluctance of the core, preventing it going into magnetic saturation. Also do you have information of the layup of the windings on the stator, I notice bottom right corner the stator appears to have been wound with 4 strands of wire but possibly at different angles on the previous layers.

Kind Regards

Andy

Hey Andy,

The stator dimensions have been stated a number of times in this thread, but I'll repeat them here for you again. The structure the coils are wound on is a piece of Schedule 40, 4 inch inside diameter ABS plastic sewer pipe. It is approximately 0.25" thick. Four strands of #20 gauge wire are wound on this coil form to fill a 90 degree arc to a thickness of about 0.50" on each side. The strands are then connected in series. No special attention was paid to how carefully the various layers of turns were layed down as the purpose of the stator coils is merely to establish an AIR-CORE coil with alternating pole faces at 90 degree intervals. There is no secret winding method involved in the coils. The "air-gap" relating to the reluctance of the rotor core is not significant since the stator does not provide a preferred magnetic return path other than the air at any point during its rotation. The machine is not a "variable reluctance" type of device. The machine represents a totally new and unique motoring principle and is the invention of John Bedini. This electric motor is unlike any other electric motor you have ever seen. That you don't quite understand it is understandable. It took me 10 years to fully grasp what this motor was doing and why, even after I built a working model!

I hope this answers your questions.

Best regards,
Peter

[Retep]

Final Post for Now

Hey Everybody,

So, this thread now contains all of the information anyone may need to replicate the ZFM that I built in 2002. To recap where the accurate information is, here is a list.

This film is a short demonstration, by John, of the ZFM motor model we are discussing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TICXxP1jI4

There is good information on how to build the magnetic reed commutator in Post #10.

John posted twice before his death on November 5th. Those posts are #25, #27.

In Post #27, John discusses the fact that he never just tells people everything at once. He usually gives some information and lets people think about it for a while and learn the way he learned, by making every mistake possible! Lovingly, I call this the "crumb method" of teaching. John would drop crumbs periodically and if we stayed around long enough, we would be able to figure out what kind of sandwich the crumbs were coming from! I was lucky enough to be around him more so I gathered more crumbs than most. As I said before, John and I were planning to build a bigger model soon, and we were not planning to deviate from the "crumb method" in this thread. His death caused me to reconsider that decision, and now I have given you the complete design.

Everything you need to know about how the 2002 model was built is in my Posts, and they are Post #88, #92, #94, #96, and #99. All of the other speculations, right or wrong, can be disregarded and you will still have enough information to build the machine properly.

I am not going to go into Operational Theory concerning this motor in this thread, so don't ask. No one's speculations so far are even close. I will say this. In this machine, Lenz's Law is FULLY OPERATIONAL, as is Ohm's Law, Kirchhoff's Law, Faraday's Law of Induction, and Newton's Third Law of Motion. Anyone who says different does not know how the machine works!

OK, no more questions. Build it or don't build it. The machine is the teacher!

Best regards,
Peter

[Gyula]

Dear Peter,

In your post #99 you wrote about 3 strands of wire while in the close-up pictures taken at the conference 4 strands of wire can be seen (2 green and 2 red) the ends of which were brought out to the terminal blocks for the series connection. Could you address this? (I know what difference the 3 or 4 strands may cause.)

One more thing: someone wrote the Neo magnet grades on the rotor in your prototype was N40 if I am not mistaken, is this okay or maybe stronger rotor magnets could also be used?
If you think these are irrelevant details, then ok...

Thanks,
Gyula

[Retep]

Gyula,

Thanks for catching that typo. There are definitely 4 strands on each side. All strands in series, so replications can just fill the area with a single #20 wire if that is easier. I have fixed the reference in Post #99 so that now reads correctly. N40 was probably pretty close for Neos purchased in 2002. In general, the specific strength of the magnet is not critical, other than to note that "the stronger the better."

Good luck, guys.

Peter

Dear Peter,

In your post #99 you wrote about 3 strands of wire while in the close-up pictures taken at the conference 4 strands of wire can be seen (2 green and 2 red) the ends of which were brought out to the terminal blocks for the series connection. Could you address this? (I know what difference the 3 or 4 strands may cause.)

One more thing: someone wrote the Neo magnet grades on the rotor in your prototype was N40 if I am not mistaken, is this okay or maybe stronger rotor magnets could also be used?
If you think these are irrelevant details, then ok...

Thanks,
Gyula

[ZPDM]

Paul,

The bi-polar switching is required in the design I am talking about because the coils are used to actuate both North and South magnets on the rotor. It is not, however, required in all designs that John demonstrated over the years. Single-sided switching can be used for any coil that actuates only one pole (North or South) of a magnet.

I hope that answers your question.

Also, I have now uploaded the image for the timing of the motor in Post #88, so that should complete all of the details people will need for successful replications.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Appreciate your answering my question and all the very worthwhile information provided. Will try and order parts tomorrow. I begin to think this machine has some layers like an onion, will have lots of permutations to look at. When I first started experimenting with this I was pretty stunned when I realized there is no direct correlation/feedback with B field strength. As John said it runs on the "A Field" and the magnetism is contained. I don't fully understand the machine but I have to guess it is closer to a Faraday motor than a conventional AC or DC motor. I'll shut up on theory because it seems like half the time when I don't all the changes I make based from my "theory" make things worse and/or I realize the next day I am 180 degrees off. I am certainly curious though to see whether I can improve my last go around.

Paul

[Ed_Morbus]

Thank you peter.

[Yaro1776]

ZFM Proposed Rotor Material Spec

Researching the the material spec for the rotor iron has been a fun exercise wading through all the ferromagnetic metals available in the market place. The most likely and appropriate candidate for the rotor is a low carbon 99.5% or 99.8% Cartech Electrical Iron that can be obtained from Carpenter Technologies' distributors. If you wish to obtain this material contact a reliable metal supplier to see if they have access to the round and bar stock. There are other major metal mills that, undoubtedly, have a similar material.

If you wish to do your own research into this, go to CarTech.com and search magnetic alloys/metals - prepare to be overwhelmed with 58 possible choices.

Update on Supplier and material spec. Material can be obtained from http://www.cmispecialty.com/ and iron conforms to CMI-C Magnetic Core Iron Cold Drawn Rod and Bar per ASTM A-848-01

The magnetic properties of parts machined from this material can be enhanced by proper heat treatment, but in this instance the parts probably can be used, as is, for proof of concept.

I intend to initiate the machining process of the Iron ZFM rotor as soon as the machine shop can fit this little project into its schedule and obtain the material. With the holidays rapidly approaching, it may be wishful thinking to see the parts before the New Year, but it may happen.

The intention here is to put together a simple design rotor for a start, and gluing the Neo's to the rotor with the magnets properly positioned by a shallow counter bore on each side of the rotor. The glue (Loctite 334) is high strength and designed specifically for secure magnet applications. The assembly will be reinforced with the recommended tape wraps. More importantly, the rpm will be limited to well below 10,000 rpm by utilizing the principles (operating voltage and timing) learned from the ZFM Proto with the Aluminum rotor. Anticipate that a 4,000 rpm maximum will be a comfortable speed zone to do the necessary testing and still be in a safe speed zone. It will be interesting to see if that milepost speed can be achieved.

Once the above is proofed and deemed worthy, I may post the machining schematic design for the shaft and rotor if requested, or some form of this procedure.

If anyone has relevant suggestions and other options for a rotor material spec that will suit this application do not hesitate to post your recommendations.

Chomping at the bit here,
Yaro

[DMANN]

I put a file together for anyone that may be interested in a small build. It is about 4 inches square. It is here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1940207 I have started here with a two magnet rotor. If someone wants a rotor with more magnets just let me know. I do not have any plans to build this until after March 2017.

DMann

[DMANN]

12/05/2016 at 11:07 AM est: added two more rotor options with corresponding reed/hall switching rotors. The magnets for the rotors are 1/2" X 1/4" disc magnets. The reed/hall magnets are 1/8" X 1/4"D cylinder magnets. I cut pieces of 1/4" inch tube to use as bearing stand-offs. Once you determine which set-up that you want to use permanently you can lightly sand the shaft and apply a minimum amount of Gorilla Glue to secure the rotor.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1940207

Enjoy!!
DMann

[David Bowling]

I built a simple replication of this motor using a four sided nut (3/4") you can purchase at most places that specialize in nuts and bolts. I had a plastic piece with a hole in it that I pounded into the center and epoxied in place. The plastic stuck out BOTH SIDES of the nut, but that was fine with me, because in helped stabilize the nut better. You can find plastic pieces at Lowes or Home Depot that will fit right inside the nut, if you get the correct size. I drilled the plastic piece out for my shaft, and epoxied the shaft to the plastic piece. I used four 1"x 1"x 1/2" neos with holes in them that I bolted to the nut by drilling and tapping holes and using brass screws fixed in place with local tight. It has an 8mm brass shaft that rests in two ceramic bearings. The stator is formed from the coupler that goes on 4" black pic sewer pipe. I wanted a bit larger size, since my square nut is a bit larger than the block of steel Peter used. The coupler has a larger ID than the pipe itself. The PVC is 1" wide, exposing as much surface are of the wire as possible to the rotating magnetic field.

I spent a LOT OF TIME. A LOT OF TIME. A LOT OF TIME setting the rotor in specific places, and then firing the coil by hand so I could see WHEN to turn the coil on, and WHEN to turn the coil off. Starting the rotor in a SPECIFIC place and providing the coil with voltage for a SPECIFIC amount of time gives best resupts. You want to know that in order to get the right timing. It also taught me a LOT about how this machine operates that you will never understand if you just hook it up and run it. Yes, you will know HOW to make it run, but you may never know WHY it does what it does.

This is the simplest ACCURATE representation of John's machine I can build without a machine shop to fabricate parts. Hope that was useful information.
Dave

[DMANN]

Hey Dave. It works really good for me to see pictures or videos so that I can better visualize what you are talking about here. I am excited to be able to join in on the discussion of this thread. I hope to be able to put one together myself at some point and discuss it with my own experience. My replication efforts will be closer to John's 3D printed ZFM like in this video.

I can certainly agree that you will never get the accuracy from a 3 axis machine for a rotor like you will from a good lathe? This little $400 3D printer has paid for itself X3 since I bought it in May. It is a great prototyping machine for this type of work.

DMann

[David Bowling]

I also have a 3D printer, but to follow John's design for this motor, you need the steel piece in the center to back the magnetic field of the magnets, so a plastic rotor will not work, except as a proof of concept, OR to give you the shape you need to reduce air friction with the correct pieces embedded into it. You also need the commutator to follow the curve of the rotor to use your coils to their full effect. I am in AZ right now, and my machine is 12 hours away, so you won't see any pictures from me any time soon. Sorry about that. I have had a couple phone conversations with Peter L in the last month or so, and am pretty sure there are some specific things you need to have to get the MOST out of this design. I just wanted to show a simple way that most folks could replicate it without having to have parts machined.

Dave