Mechanical Switching

[Deuis]

4 Bolt mount rotor to shaft.

[min2oly]

I'm building it according to Bedini's old mechanical commutator drawings.
While there are 24 segments on the commutator several of these will be soldered together to allow for maximum attraction time.
More or less can be soldered to allow for tuning.
The commutators themselves are held in place by an end nut which is variable too.
The brushes will be mounted to 6mm PVC in a geared mount for tuning while running.

"There is another type of controller I must make known, and it is the simplest of all. With three brushes and a commutator, you can do away with all the electronics and handle 100 times the power back to the battery. The simplest method would be a split commutator, of which a little less than 180 degrees would be copper. (see figure 12 Free Energy Generation.)"

Allowing for two magnets in the commutator I will use a maximum of 12 segments per magnet.

I just re-read a good chunk of FEG, this is exciting!
KR - Patrick

[ZPDM]

1) Am jealous of your machining/build abilities, joking ... sort of 2) That mechanical commutator should give the "cleanest" switch of all except perhaps a reed (that you can't drive significant power through) or a spark gap which doesn't apply here. Would have to guess and here's hoping you get a significant radiant once running.

[Deuis]

Bearing blocks milled into the 20mm polyethylene.
Center line milled for coil placements.
Commutators fitted ready for brush mounts.
Corner screw jacks fitted for vibration control.

Has anyone got any coil holders ala the old 10coiler style?

Feel free to make suggestions I'm just making it up as I go.

[Deuis]

These are the adjustable brush cards.
Two layers of PVC are bolted together, one ring larger than the other.
The inside of the larger ring is cut at 45 degrees.
The inner circle is also cut at 45 degrees and will sit inside the larger circle like a bearing.
The cards themselves will sit in slots milled out to suit in the 20mm polyethylene base.
The commutator sits inside the smaller circle and the brushes will be mounted to the inner ring.

(The 45 chamfers have not been completed and the inner ring is yet to be finished.)

[BobZilla]

1) Am jealous of your machining/build abilities, joking ... sort of 2) That mechanical commutator should give the "cleanest" switch of all except perhaps a reed (that you can't drive significant power through) or a spark gap which doesn't apply here. Would have to guess and here's hoping you get a significant radiant once running.

Mechanical switching offers some of the best radiant of any method. The quick and complete breaking of the circuit is far better than a PN junction within a transistor which has an internal capacitance no matter what you do. One issue with mechanical is just that the switching will wear down from arcing so it becomes a regular serviceable item that we don't have to deal with on transistors. I am not expert on the topic but I have played around quite a bit in the area.

[Deuis]

Hi BobZilla,

Not being a fan of electronics in the field of radiant energy I much preferred the mechanical switches.

The wear issue using commutators and brushes should be minor, its proven tech.
The way the setup is designed it takes very little effort to change them out.
The brushes are rated for at least 2kW continuous which should cover most of the problems, I do have larger brushes if need be.

I have also theorized about using spare segments on the commutator as a radiant switch in themselves.
Hook alternative segments to external inductors and capacitors shuttling around energy.
This could raise the frequencies etc but all is unknown without actual testing.

Mechanical switching offers some of the best radiant of any method. The quick and complete breaking of the circuit is far better than a PN junction within a transistor which has an internal capacitance no matter what you do. One issue with mechanical is just that the switching will wear down from arcing so it becomes a regular serviceable item that we don't have to deal with on transistors. I am not expert on the topic but I have played around quite a bit in the area.

[min2oly]

Hi BobZilla,

Not being a fan of electronics in the field of radiant energy I much preferred the mechanical switches.

The wear issue using commutators and brushes should be minor, its proven tech.
The way the setup is designed it takes very little effort to change them out.
The brushes are rated for at least 2kW continuous which should cover most of the problems, I do have larger brushes if need be.

I have also theorized about using spare segments on the commutator as a radiant switch in themselves.
Hook alternative segments to external inductors and capacitors shuttling around energy.
This could raise the frequencies etc but all is unknown without actual testing.

You should be ok if you use good diodes and thick wire after the charge batteries, you will capture the energy rather than letting it get to your brushes. If your brushes are arching, that is wasted energy :-)

[BobZilla]

You should be ok if you use good diodes and thick wire after the charge batteries, you will capture the energy rather than letting it get to your brushes. If your brushes are arching, that is wasted energy :-)

That's a good point Patrick, thanks for the input. I was not using brushes though. I tried a few goofy setups all worked decent bu then I went back to fets and SS relays. A lot of it is in the first section of my "new medium sized machine" thread,, I later named it clack because of the mechanical clacking sounds it used to make. I'll tell you one of the more far out ideas I came up with. I put a regular Automotive mechanical relay into a jar along with a oxygen obsorber like you seal into mylar bags for food prep, the idea was to create a oxygen free switching environment. Kind of like a giant reed switch.

*EDIT*
I should add the reason I commented is because Patrick's comment reminded me of just how tricky it is to direct the energy the way you want it to go. I agree that the brushes, real brushes will probably do better than anything else. I am going to let John lead the way with his build, this is definitely a method I have had a good deal of interest in and I am excited to see it being looked at by someone else. What an awesome build this is tuning into BTW!

[Deuis]

One completed brush manifold.
Slots have not been milled into the polyethylene yet (card is upside down for demonstration purposes).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5689[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5690[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5692[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5693[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5694[/ATTACH]

[Deuis]

I'm commenting on your comment of Patrick's comments....

As a side note I have just bought some 150mm X 25mm X 25mm ceramics which I intend on mounting to a second rotor.
This allows me to put two coils side by side and pulse from one magnet.
I'm wondering if anyone has tried this and any theories that may accompany it?

That's a good point Patrick, thanks for the input. I was not using brushes though. I tried a few goofy setups all worked decent bu then I went back to fets and SS relays. A lot of it is in the first section of my "new medium sized machine" thread,, I later named it clack because of the mechanical clacking sounds it used to make. I'll tell you one of the more far out ideas I came up with. I put a regular Automotive mechanical relay into a jar along with a oxygen obsorber like you seal into mylar bags for food prep, the idea was to create a oxygen free switching environment. Kind of like a giant reed switch.

*EDIT*
I should add the reason I commented is because Patrick's comment reminded me of just how tricky it is to direct the energy the way you want it to go. I agree that the brushes, real brushes will probably do better than anything else. I am going to let John lead the way with his build, this is definitely a method I have had a good deal of interest in and I am excited to see it being looked at by someone else. What an awesome build this is tuning into BTW!

[BobZilla]

I'm commenting on your comment of Patrick's comments....

As a side note I have just bought some 150mm X 25mm X 25mm ceramics which I intend on mounting to a second rotor.
This allows me to put two coils side by side and pulse from one magnet.
I'm wondering if anyone has tried this and any theories that may accompany it?

I'm not sure my comment here will be relevant but I will shoot my mouth off anyway ;-)

I have a similar setup on my little machine in that it has a front and back rotor with magnets on each. Often times I align them exactly even so you could think of it sort of like an imaginary single magnet lining up with two coils.

Early on with the machine I only put coils around the front rotor, six all around it. Later on I tried putting three around the front and three around the back which is what i was just describing so like having two coils pushing at the same time on both magnets (on rotors), kind of like two coils on one big magnet. Anyway I found using both front and back rotor was a bit more torque than only one rotor. WHat I am saying is I had six coils in either setup but when they were distributed throughout the front and back rotor it was better over all. Hopefully that makes sense. It would effectivly be similar to what I think your describing with one magnet to two coils.

Now something more specific to consider with your one magnet two coil arrangement. Often times there is a stronger pole slightly off center from the center of the magnet. In other words on a normal wheel setup we often times do not line up the magnets dead center across the coil because it wants to push off a bit to the side. If you were to loosen the shaft bearings keeper and spin it you will notice the whole shaft wil want to slide over from center of the magnet because teh pole is stronger there. SO all I'm saying is watch out for a possible bucking effect of the pole on that single magnet becasue they have a strong spot and it is not usually center.

[Deuis]

Brush cards slotted in place.

[Deuis]

2 X 18ga coils and coil holders milled into place. (10 coiler now becomes an 8 coiler, sorry john!)
Further holes milled to allow for four coils total.
Bearing block moved to allow for longer rotor (future).

[Tom C]

please make those bearing blocks out of Delrin... the eddy currents generated in the aluminum will adversely affect your machine's performance. aluminum is not completely immune to magnetic influence.

Tom C