John Bedini's Magnetic Model

[min2oly]

Hi Elmar,
one of the reasons I like your thought on using super poles for this build is partially what Tom is talking about and I was also re-reading the old WindowMotor yahoo group. John talked about needing to use ceramic magnets, getting away from the neo's. He also mentioned the geometry on the windowmotor kits rick sold was all wrong. My ceramic build was always the closest to unity.

It makes sense that he called this a toy motor. He had not perfected it yet. When I read the old group you can tell he was still experimenting with it. He mentions getting his build down to 15mA's. To be honest, I would be surprised if he ever got one of his windowmotor builds to overunity or even unity. I can't remember if I ever heard him say he did. Anyone....?
-Patrick

Thanks to all of your contributions.

I understand now, in the book I mentioned: "The Magnetic Window Motor", 1971 from John Bedini, in the 40 pages there are only three pages about the motor with the ball rotor. Neos are used here, mounted on an iron sleeve.

The window coils are mentioned and a circuit diagram is given, no wire thickness or approximate length of wire given.

JB also calls it a toy motor - I start building parts of it, like the ball rotor - for fun.

Meanwhile I may have evoked some interest in that particular device, so that, hopefully, some more fragments of information will be collected.

Regards,

Elmar

[elmar]

Hi Elmar,
one of the reasons I like your thought on using super poles for this build is partially what Tom is talking about and I was also re-reading the old WindowMotor yahoo group. John talked about needing to use ceramic magnets, getting away from the neo's. He also mentioned the geometry on the windowmotor kits rick sold was all wrong. My ceramic build was always the closest to unity.

It makes sense that he called this a toy motor. He had not perfected it yet. When I read the old group you can tell he was still experimenting with it. He mentions getting his build down to 15mA's. To be honest, I would be surprised if he ever got one of his windowmotor builds to overunity or even unity. I can't remember if I ever heard him say he did. Anyone....?
-Patrick

Hi Patrick,

when asked how the motor with the ball rotor runs for years with the same batteries I found John Bedini saying the following on DVD#40:


"It´s a representation of a Watson motor. I actually built this motor in 1984. And it´s the motor Tom Bearden talks about - it was under the bench - that kept running.
By that time Watson had already given his demonstration. And it disappeared from the scene. And so I wanted to keep the technology."

I also like John`s simplicity when it comes to overunity...

"And people have asked for years: "How can it stay on these batteries and do this...well, we haven´t done anything. Tony has been filming up here for the past three years. And the motor is always set there, you know, we´re never really out to get it shut and nobody ever really asked any questions about what the motor was."


He also says he´s using neos with it:

"It´s all based upon that the magnetic fields, they´re rotating and spinning and so you can take advantage of all that. And people don´t understand that aluminium is very magnetic under these neo-boron magnets and so what happens is eddy currents form in here and you can save it, when it (JB aligns the aluminium cylinder) gets the current right then the thing just speeds up from in here, right in here somewhere (JB lifting slightly axis on one of its ends). When the currents is just right and you get the right drag you have your fastes rpm.
This shows the principle of the Watson machine. You know, the rotor is spinning, which the rotor is in the center here and the generator is out here (horizontal window coil) and it´s very magnetic out here (JB demonstrates with an iron rod). It snatches it towards it. And so the fields are huge out here and you can see the rod moving around. So the fields are way out, out around the machine..."



I finished now the rotor, starting with two 20mm neo disks on a 8mm iron rod in a 3 inch plastic ball.

I can make larger coils on this machine, like he did. It´s a good playground for me learning about the magnets and the coils.

Since there are only two magnets used, N-S to each other, the iron sleeve becomes part of the permanent magnets.

IMO it can be considered as one larger magnet moving inside of a window coil. A good object for study.

Cannot say much about the super poles, but that´s a good place to start for me ...

Elmar

[min2oly]

Hi Patrick,

when asked how the motor with the ball rotor runs for years with the same batteries I found John Bedini saying the following on DVD#40:


"It´s a representation of a Watson motor. I actually built this motor in 1984. And it´s the motor Tom Bearden talks about - it was under the bench - that kept running.
By that time Watson had already given his demonstration. And it disappeared from the scene. And so I wanted to keep the technology."

I also like John`s simplicity when it comes to overunity...

"And people have asked for years: "How can it stay on these batteries and do this...well, we haven´t done anything. Tony has been filming up here for the past three years. And the motor is always set there, you know, we´re never really out to get it shut and nobody ever really asked any questions about what the motor was."


He also says he´s using neos with it:

"It´s all based upon that the magnetic fields, they´re rotating and spinning and so you can take advantage of all that. And people don´t understand that aluminium is very magnetic under these neo-boron magnets and so what happens is eddy currents form in here and you can save it, when it (JB aligns the aluminium cylinder) gets the current right then the thing just speeds up from in here, right in here somewhere (JB lifting slightly axis on one of its ends). When the currents is just right and you get the right drag you have your fastes rpm.
This shows the principle of the Watson machine. You know, the rotor is spinning, which the rotor is in the center here and the generator is out here (horizontal window coil) and it´s very magnetic out here (JB demonstrates with an iron rod). It snatches it towards it. And so the fields are huge out here and you can see the rod moving around. So the fields are way out, out around the machine..."



I finished now the rotor, starting with two 20mm neo disks on a 8mm iron rod in a 3 inch plastic ball.

I can make larger coils on this machine, like he did. It´s a good playground for me learning about the magnets and the coils.

Since there are only two magnets used, N-S to each other, the iron sleeve becomes part of the permanent magnets.

IMO it can be considered as one larger magnet moving inside of a window coil. A good object for study.

Cannot say much about the super poles, but that´s a good place to start for me ...

Elmar

This is all very interesting to me. I think there could be some misinterpretation going on. Not on your part but on others who have been around him. JB was not always understood for the meaning he was trying to convay.

So the "running for years" part is an assumption on the interviewer's part and John answers a different question all together bringing up the Watson machine. I'm pretty sure I remember him saying he did not run it 24/7 - most times it just sat there motionless, he would fire it up now and then with, yes, "the same batteries"... I'd still like someone to point out where JB actually said this window motor or any other window motor he had ran unity or over unity.

regarding neo's, JB made a clear statement on the old WindowMotor yahoo forum, if you want power, use neo's if you want lower amp draw use ceramic's. When I read that old forum we can clearly see JB is doing his best to build something that will get to unity but never comes out and says he does.

Do you see when JB talks about "it" speeding up when he aligns the aluminium cylinder... he is bringing the aluminum closer to the spinning ball (magnets) and it speeds up due to lenz-law (eddie currents). JB demonstrates this in the video i posted earlier.

Yes this is a representation of the watson as well as the SSG and so many other builds. I'm curious about how the timing worked in this original build. He mentions briefly in the vid i posted and you can see the LED's blinking in a staggered fashion that it is triggered more than once. how does he do this with one motor wind using the one SSG circuit?
Nice thread you have here - thanks
-Patrick

[Faraday88]

This is all very interesting to me. I think there could be some misinterpretation going on. Not on your part but on others who have been around him. JB was not always understood for the meaning he was trying to convay.

So the "running for years" part is an assumption on the interviewer's part and John answers a different question all together bringing up the Watson machine. I'm pretty sure I remember him saying he did not run it 24/7 - most times it just sat there motionless, he would fire it up now and then with, yes, "the same batteries"... I'd still like someone to point out where JB actually said this window motor or any other window motor he had ran unity or over unity.

regarding neo's, JB made a clear statement on the old WindowMotor yahoo forum, if you want power, use neo's if you want lower amp draw use ceramic's. When I read that old forum we can clearly see JB is doing his best to build something that will get to unity but never comes out and says he does.

Do you see when JB talks about "it" speeding up when he aligns the aluminium cylinder... he is bringing the aluminum closer to the spinning ball (magnets) and it speeds up due to lenz-law (eddie currents). JB demonstrates this in the video i posted earlier.

Yes this is a representation of the watson as well as the SSG and so many other builds. I'm curious about how the timing worked in this original build. He mentions briefly in the vid i posted and you can see the LED's blinking in a staggered fashion that it is triggered more than once. how does he do this with one motor wind using the one SSG circuit?
Nice thread you have here - thanks
-Patrick

Hey Patrick,
Im intrigued by this aspect and its implications : Do you see when JB talks about "it" speeding up when he aligns the aluminium cylinder... he is bringing the aluminum closer to the spinning ball (magnets) and it speeds up due to lenz-law (eddie currents). JB demonstrates this in the video i posted earlier.
I wonder how a lenz's effect which retards the motion would actually help in speeding it up???? we all know a loaded Genny coil also speeds up the SSG rotor. is the same action at work here as well..? how did John foresee this..tha's all the more interesting!!!i must say..
Best Regards,
Faraday88.

[elmar]

This is all very interesting to me. I think there could be some misinterpretation going on. Not on your part but on others who have been around him. JB was not always understood for the meaning he was trying to convay.

So the "running for years" part is an assumption on the interviewer's part and John answers a different question all together bringing up the Watson machine. I'm pretty sure I remember him saying he did not run it 24/7 - most times it just sat there motionless, he would fire it up now and then with, yes, "the same batteries"... I'd still like someone to point out where JB actually said this window motor or any other window motor he had ran unity or over unity.

regarding neo's, JB made a clear statement on the old WindowMotor yahoo forum, if you want power, use neo's if you want lower amp draw use ceramic's. When I read that old forum we can clearly see JB is doing his best to build something that will get to unity but never comes out and says he does.

Do you see when JB talks about "it" speeding up when he aligns the aluminium cylinder... he is bringing the aluminum closer to the spinning ball (magnets) and it speeds up due to lenz-law (eddie currents). JB demonstrates this in the video i posted earlier.

Yes this is a representation of the watson as well as the SSG and so many other builds. I'm curious about how the timing worked in this original build. He mentions briefly in the vid i posted and you can see the LED's blinking in a staggered fashion that it is triggered more than once. how does he do this with one motor wind using the one SSG circuit?
Nice thread you have here - thanks
-Patrick

Yesterday I watched the pictures to get to know more about the circuit he uses. Lot of confusion (subjectively, in my mind) about that.
Apparently there is only a 2N3055H and a diode used, maybe a few resistors...or do the LED´s the job?

But on the internet: No information on that, only other, more complex circuits - up to reed switch circuits.
I have seen some closeups of that particular machine, any my confused mind tends to think: Did he hide the circuit also in the wooden box underneath of it?

I don´t think so, for sure he did not. I only see the transistor on a small front plate, and in the few archieves I have access to, apparently, nobody dares to ask how he set up the circuit on that particular ball rotor machine.

No doubt, JB always tried to to make circuits as simple as possible.

JB says: "The circuit powering this is the monopole circuit, one pulse at a time. The coil that is horizontal is the generator coil for the capacitor, the LED´s are just indicator for the North and South poles passing. This is a straight Bedini/Cole motor, monopole switching. It is just a model so I would never forget what I learned. The real machine was dismantled when cole died. I´m giving the book to people, the 1971 lab notes of the different monopoles I built, another 40 pages in experiments. The rest you will find in the dump one day."

But the reference is "text only" from the internet ... did he speak specifically about the motor with the ball rotor? I don´t know.

He points out the 40 page book he gave to people, it´s available in 2nd edition of Bedini-Bearden Years: "Free energy generation". I purchased it from cheniere.org.

Also reliable reference ... he gives in the booklet information for four types of window motors, one of them the motor with the ball rotor.

I can rely on the booklet, but it is from 1971 --- in 2009 JB gives interviews on that particular machine where he says he built it in 1984, I´ve seen it on DVD#40, associated with the book.

Surely it has been developed since then, but I guess he has given all the basics in the booklet.

In the interview (2009) he is standing next to the machine, pointing with a steel rod towards it. In that situation he also talks about the Watson Machine.
This information I can rely on. I don´t see very complex circuit also on this machine. I can see him and the machine at the same time. I conclude the information given here must be true.

He also says in that interview:

"By the way it is about the same time as we were working with "Sparky" Sweet with cross wound coils. So everything I learned about cross wound coils I incorporated in this motor. Because these two coils cannot interfere with each other, they are 90 degrees apart, opposed. So one becomes the generator and what you´re looking at here, is the same piece that´s in the tesla switch right here you see the charge and then the discharge in opposite phases in the angle, and that´s the pulse that runs into the batteries."

---

Now what follows is my personal opinion and it only reflects some of my own thinking. I´m not saying that it is the truth, it only reflects what I think at the current time:

From the few things I have studied, he does not talk about unity or overunity.

He talked about ou in his speech on an energy conference I mentioned above, though, kind of, it´s out there and we have to take advantage of it. He has a solid attitude towards it, kind of saying, what to say if it is ou, when the batteries are still part of the circuit, and they are in place for nine years now (and he didn´t mention the machine running 24/7 since then), but they are obviously dead, how should he dare saying it is ou when the batteries are still in place and the machine running? He would have to take away the batteries... (I heard him saying something like that, but these really are my interpretations of it...don´t take it for granted)

Now more guesswork from my person:

Also I think in circuits with batteries you cannot talk about unity or overunity at all, because you will always have to invest some energy in order to keep the system running. And with batteries you will alway loose part of the energy you have invested.

But nevertheless you are tapping into an energy source that is unity or overunity in itself. You have access to that vast amount of energy, but have to figure out means to use it freely. I guess one has to invest for it, even when it´s a small amount, like 6V/3 mA.

And the ball rotor machine comes very near to it.

I also think it is worth of discussion and it fits into this tread, because some things weren´t even mentioned, like the drive systen he hooks to it and the momentum it generates from the eddie currents...but that´s for others, not for me.

What I can do, I can build this machine, if it runs or not, who dares? There´s so much learning associated with that particular build, it´s worth doing anyway.

Cheers,

Elmar

[min2oly]

Hey Patrick,
Im intrigued by this aspect and its implications : Do you see when JB talks about "it" speeding up when he aligns the aluminium cylinder... he is bringing the aluminum closer to the spinning ball (magnets) and it speeds up due to lenz-law (eddie currents). JB demonstrates this in the video i posted earlier.
I wonder how a lenz's effect which retards the motion would actually help in speeding it up???? we all know a loaded Genny coil also speeds up the SSG rotor. is the same action at work here as well..? how did John foresee this..tha's all the more interesting!!!i must say..
Best Regards,
Faraday88.

I see now my typing and explanation were lame. what I meant here was the fan rotor speeds up rather than the ball rotor. The ball rotor most likely slows down because it is pulling the fan...

However...

Now that you say that out loud and as I type now, I wonder??? I will give this a spin/try later today.
-Patrick

[min2oly]

Yesterday I watched the pictures to get to know more about the circuit he uses. Lot of confusion (subjectively, in my mind) about that.
Apparently there is only a 2N3055H and a diode used, maybe a few resistors...or do the LED´s the job?

But on the internet: No information on that, only other, more complex circuits - up to reed switch circuits.
I have seen some closeups of that particular machine, any my confused mind tends to think: Did he hide the circuit also in the wooden box underneath of it?

I don´t think so, for sure he did not. I only see the transistor on a small front plate, and in the few archieves I have access to, apparently, nobody dares to ask how he set up the circuit on that particular ball rotor machine.

No doubt, JB always tried to to make circuits as simple as possible.

JB says: "The circuit powering this is the monopole circuit, one pulse at a time. The coil that is horizontal is the generator coil for the capacitor, the LED´s are just indicator for the North and South poles passing. This is a straight Bedini/Cole motor, monopole switching. It is just a model so I would never forget what I learned. The real machine was dismantled when cole died. I´m giving the book to people, the 1971 lab notes of the different monopoles I built, another 40 pages in experiments. The rest you will find in the dump one day."

But the reference is "text only" from the internet ... did he speak specifically about the motor with the ball rotor? I don´t know.

He points out the 40 page book he gave to people, it´s available in 2nd edition of Bedini-Bearden Years: "Free energy generation". I purchased it from cheniere.org.

Also reliable reference ... he gives in the booklet information for four types of window motors, one of them the motor with the ball rotor.

I can rely on the booklet, but it is from 1971 --- in 2009 JB gives interviews on that particular machine where he says he built it in 1984, I´ve seen it on DVD#40, associated with the book.

Surely it has been developed since then, but I guess he has given all the basics in the booklet.

In the interview (2009) he is standing next to the machine, pointing with a steel rod towards it. In that situation he also talks about the Watson Machine.
This information I can rely on. I don´t see very complex circuit also on this machine. I can see him and the machine at the same time. I conclude the information given here must be true.

He also says in that interview:

"By the way it is about the same time as we were working with "Sparky" Sweet with cross wound coils. So everything I learned about cross wound coils I incorporated in this motor. Because these two coils cannot interfere with each other, they are 90 degrees apart, opposed. So one becomes the generator and what you´re looking at here, is the same piece that´s in the tesla switch right here you see the charge and then the discharge in opposite phases in the angle, and that´s the pulse that runs into the batteries."

---

Now what follows is my personal opinion and it only reflects some of my own thinking. I´m not saying that it is the truth, it only reflects what I think at the current time:

From the few things I have studied, he does not talk about unity or overunity.

He talked about ou in his speech on an energy conference I mentioned above, though, kind of, it´s out there and we have to take advantage of it. He has a solid attitude towards it, kind of saying, what to say if it is ou, when the batteries are still part of the circuit, and they are in place for nine years now (and he didn´t mention the machine running 24/7 since then), but they are obviously dead, how should he dare saying it is ou when the batteries are still in place and the machine running? He would have to take away the batteries... (I heard him saying something like that, but these really are my interpretations of it...don´t take it for granted)

Now more guesswork from my person:

Also I think in circuits with batteries you cannot talk about unity or overunity at all, because you will always have to invest some energy in order to keep the system running. And with batteries you will alway loose part of the energy you have invested.

But nevertheless you are tapping into an energy source that is unity or overunity in itself. You have access to that vast amount of energy, but have to figure out means to use it freely. I guess one has to invest for it, even when it´s a small amount, like 6V/3 mA.

And the ball rotor machine comes very near to it.

I also think it is worth of discussion and it fits into this tread, because some things weren´t even mentioned, like the drive systen he hooks to it and the momentum it generates from the eddie currents...but that´s for others, not for me.

What I can do, I can build this machine, if it runs or not, who dares? There´s so much learning associated with that particular build, it´s worth doing anyway.

Cheers,

Elmar

I look forward to hearing about your efforts.

I re-watched and must have misunderstood him the first time, he is talking about 4 phases not 4 switchings.
https://youtu.be/xtGz4QHJ0e4?t=1m17s
"you're seeing this phase, then this phase, then this phase, then this phase." He points to the LED's one at a time.

so somehow it would seem he is does have the genny coil feeding back into the system.
what we know:

1. two coils at 90 degrees
2. drive coil 2 winds/filer 900 turns smaller gauge
3. genny coil also 2 winds/filer 300 turns larger gauge
4. 4 LED's one for each "phase"
5. carbon graphite ball
6. aluminium cylinder with fan to show work adjust speed who knows what else.
7. Basic SSG circuit

I wonder if he is using a switching diode somehow to put the energy back to the source as the original simplified school girl circuit did?
-Patrick

[Dave Wing]

Hey all,

I just scooped this image from a video tube user "Davy Oneness" video about John Bedini... It explains BEMF and the Spike are additive to each other, this is big news at least to me. Also I think John maybe referring to CEMF when he talks about BEMF in his rotor SG machines. Just so you know I am talking about CEMF, produced from rotored machines which is the counter force that opposes applied voltage, even though I use the term BEMF below. Sorry to confuse.

It is also very interesting when John shows splitting the positive, figure 7, in this diagram he compares it to the example of the in phase differential waveform of figure 6. Also notice the hand drawn scope shot showing the spike plus BEMF in figure 5. It can now be seen that when John mentions splitting the positive he can also be talking about BEMF and the Spike being additive and at a higher energy potential than the supply, or powering battery. Even in EFTV John shows Dave Clements the splitting the positive analogy and even the variablness in size of the wave forms that can be constructed using the splitting the positive scenerio. The Spike plus the BEMF is the key to the pulse driven SG machines ability to overpotentialize and charge the primary battery. The Beginners SG Handbook shows one pulse along one wire back to the primary battery, note there is no secondary battery at all, just a low voltage 9 volt battery powering the device.

All this is comparitive to how John, in unconventional fashion, viewed the typical DC generator waveform as talked about in the 1984 booklet that consisted of his 1984 motor / energizer. Now we can see the other half of the generator that John always said conventional electrical engineers left out of their generator designs. In the book Free Energy Generation how did John view the normal DC generator wave form? Was it the same way as figure 6 but with just the two opposing wave forms being equal in magnitude and in phase? Is the Bedini SG Energizer a full fledged model of a conventional DC generator plus what today's electrical engineers have left out?

If the SG fires at 23 degrees or in between the north magnets or at the scalar south... Which is or can be all the same thing then we have limited, which is next to no drag on the SG rotored machine.

I realize there are two different waveforms on this page (typical SG figure 8) and (BEMF + Spike, negative pulse figure 5) but there are also these same two different waveforms on John's zero force motor video when he inserts and or removes the iron tube from the core of the coil...

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

Images of experimental devices from John's shop... taken from someone’s videos who’s name I will not mention.

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

Images of experimental devices from John's shop... 2

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

Images of experimental devices from John's shop... 3

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

Images of experimental devices from John's shop... 4

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

Images of experimental devices from John's shop... 5

Dave Wing

[min2oly]

I look forward to hearing about your efforts.

I re-watched and must have misunderstood him the first time, he is talking about 4 phases not 4 switchings.
https://youtu.be/xtGz4QHJ0e4?t=1m17s
"you're seeing this phase, then this phase, then this phase, then this phase." He points to the LED's one at a time.

so somehow it would seem he is does have the genny coil feeding back into the system.
what we know:

1. two coils at 90 degrees
2. drive coil 2 winds/filer 900 turns smaller gauge
3. genny coil also 2 winds/filer 300 turns larger gauge
4. 4 LED's one for each "phase"
5. carbon graphite ball
6. aluminium cylinder with fan to show work adjust speed who knows what else.
7. Basic SSG circuit

I wonder if he is using a switching diode somehow to put the energy back to the source as the original simplified school girl circuit did?
-Patrick

Getting closer to understanding how he circulated the energy - Slow-mo video:

Notice the LED's are 2 in series - then in parallel reverse of one another. They are behaving just as JB's little Ball WM. What I'm doing with a cap he did with a 2nd coil adding even more energy to the party. Need to redesign for addition of second coil...
KR - Patrick

[min2oly]

JB's Window Ball Motor

300+ volts - notice the pre-spike :-) might be more visible in the vid... next post