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I started a thread on this topic at EF, but I thought I might also post it here, since the original idea for this came from something John posted over 20 years ago. That schematic is attached.
The circuit called for two charged batteries, one discharged battery and a load. I chose to use a 12 volt DC motor as the load. We had a battery that would neither take, nor hold a charge, and decided to use it for our third battery, because we only HAD the three batteries. When we initially put the system together and threw the switch, nothing happened. About fifteen minutes later the motor suddenly started up. The voltage on the bad battery would suddenly jump to 24 volts. It would go down to about 18 volts, and then the motor would slowly start and begin to run, speeding up gradually. The voltage would continue to drop down to around nine volts, at which time the motor would suddenly shut off and the voltage would immediately jump back to 24 volts and the cycle would repeat. I NEVER switched the position of the dead battery as Mr. Bedini shows in the schematic.
To try and get the system to keep from shutting off, I ASSUMED I needed to keep the battery in the third position from becoming charged, so I began to hook loads to it. I was able to run incredible loads for weeks without the primaries losing charge. It worked, and then it didn't.
I have been working with this setup for four years now, and lately with a couple friends. We are seeing SOMETHING, and it appears we are able to get power out of the system for short periods of time and as long as we let the batteries rest. They appear to completely recover. Those are the ONLY claims we are making at this point. It is NOT producing the kind of power I got out of my original system, but it is doing some things we believe are worth investigating. Hence this post.
We have learned that AGM batteries are essential in the third position. Take a brushed DC motor and connect one wire to the positive of battery 1. Connect the negative of battery 1 to the positive of battery 2. Connect the neg of battery 2 to the negative AGM battery. One that doesn't want to hold more than a couple volts. You need a LOAD ON THE MOTOR for this to work. My recent, SUCCESSFUL build is using a UFO modified Razor scooter motor. I haven't tried to use a standard motor with this setup yet because when you have something that works, DON'T FIX IT. (Although my original setup used a standard brushed DC motor!!!)
When you flip the switch the very first time, the motor SHOULD NOT START immediately. (If it does, you do not have a battery that will work in the third position) I have been told that the reason the motor does not start is because of the potential difference between the “stack” of two in series and the single battery, and that it takes a few minutes for that potential to change, as the battery in the third position charges. I have also been told that it doesn't start because there is not enough juice in the third battery to complete a circuit. I don't agree with either of these possible explanations. Read on for why, though I may of course be dead WRONG. In a few minutes the motor will start running. If it doesn't, the battery you have is so bad, it is beyond hope for this project. I wouldn’t wait more than 15 or 20 minutes. IF, HOWEVER, YOU CAN SPIN THE MOTOR BY HAND AND THE MOTOR STARTS, YOU CAN USE THIS BATTERY.
If you have an analogue meter on battery 3, you should see the voltage jump (when the switch is thrown) to 24+ volts. It will go slowly down to around 18 volts, and THEN the motor will start. The voltage will go down to around 12 or 13 volts, and stabilize. IF the voltage continues to go down to around 9 volts, and the motor shuts off, the voltage jumps back up to 24 volts and the cycle repeats, you ABSOLUTELY have a winner.
This experiment is to make sure you have the RIGHT kind of battery. At this point you need to stop and let your primary batteries sit and rest overnight, recharging them if they don't recover. You also need to drain battery three by connecting a light to it and leaving it overnight. THERE are REASONS for doing this, so DO IT!!
AFTER DOING ALL THAT AND LETTING THE SYSTEM REST OVERNIGHT, reconnect everything. Flip the switch to start the system and you will find that this time the motor starts IMMEDIATELY. Shut it off, add a small load like an auto dome light or even an auto headlight...something to keep battery three from charging. I only had you start it so you could ponder the following.
So…..if the delay in starting you saw yesterday were because of a difference in potential between the set of two batteries in series and the single battery, when could that potential possibly be GREATER than when you have just charged the two main batteries to FULL CHARGE while at the same time, DISCHARGING the bad battery all night long with a bulb on it????
If the delay yesterday was because there was not enough JUICE in the bad battery, how could there possibly be LESS juice than there is right now, when you have drained the bad battery ALL NIGHT LONG. It should have NO juice. None. So you should be having to put some juice into the battery for the motor to start. It should take LONGER to start than it did yesterday, and yet the motor started immediately.
It is my belief that we are talking about some kind of magnetic alignment that takes place in a bad battery and continues as long as there is a load on the battery, and also lasts for a couple days after the load is removed. If you can let it sit for a couple days, hook it back into the system, flip the switch, and once again the motor will not start immediately.
One other experiment. With a bad battery in position 3, I flipped the switch and the motor did not start. I grabbed the motor shaft and gave it a spin. The motor turned slowly because I had spun it, but it continued to slowly spin at the same rate, gradually picking up speed until it reached regular running speed. It made me wonder if the motor was not acting AS A GENERATOR at the same time it was acting as a motor.
Once you have the two batteries fully charged, the bad battery drained, and a small load connected between the terminals on battery 3, you are ready for the experimenting to really begin.
You must MATCH the load on the motor with a load on battery 3. I use a bunch of small bulbs with switches to connect each one to battery three. Flip a switch to turn on one of these lights and the motor will immediately speed up. Let it run for five minutes. If the loads are matched, the motor will suddenly speed up AGAIN. If it does, make sure you KNOW how much load you had on battery three when this happened, so you don’t waste time next time. When you are in the zone, the speed and torque will be awesome. You can continue to add loads to battery three, but add a load, wait five minutes, add a load, wait five minutes. At some point the load will cause the motor to drop out of the "zone" Now you have two choices. Reduce the load on battery 3, or INCREASE the load on the motor to get it back in the zone.
I have done no runs longer than a couple hours.
What I have done is given you all the shortcuts and information I have to help you be successful. I make no promises and share no results. We need people to test this and help expand on what we think and what we know. If you do not have the patience to run the tests over long periods of time and watch the batteries to see how they recover, you will run them down, and the system will not work for you.
UFO motor/ 3BGS - YouTube
UFO/ 3BGS test 2 - YouTube
3BGS Test 3 - YouTube
Mr. Bedini, I hope you have the time to comment on this. It is your baby. I just happened to get extremely lucky with some combination I still do NOT understand. You may believe i am full of crap, but I know what I saw, and I was lucky enough to get the thing working a few days ago just like the original device. If you think I am full of crap, I'm sorry, because your opinions and ideas on this would be much appreciated. Regardless, I will continue working on it, because once you have seen what is possible, nobody can convince you that you haven't seen it.
The setup I had working JUST LIKE THE ORIGINAL (which means charging the primaries while there is a load on the motor and a load on battery 3) a few days ago is no longer working as well as it was, and I am not sure why. When I took my motor apart, one of the four brushes that make up the power input circuit was not making contact and two of the 16 sections on the armature (which by coincidence were nearly 180 degrees from each other) were not making contact. This is a UFO modified motor, so it has two commutators, and the two sections on the armature were "dead" which COULD mean it was acting more like a pulse motor. I do NOT know when these problems occurred. So any one of these three "problems" may have been why the motor was so successful in the videos I show here, OR SOME COMBINATION OF THESE PROBLEMS, or it could have been the timing. Those are the variables. All three of the problems are now fixed, and it still isn't working like it was.
I hope this is of interest and not too far off topic for this forum, since it IS based on something Mr. Bedini published.
Dave Bowling
The circuit called for two charged batteries, one discharged battery and a load. I chose to use a 12 volt DC motor as the load. We had a battery that would neither take, nor hold a charge, and decided to use it for our third battery, because we only HAD the three batteries. When we initially put the system together and threw the switch, nothing happened. About fifteen minutes later the motor suddenly started up. The voltage on the bad battery would suddenly jump to 24 volts. It would go down to about 18 volts, and then the motor would slowly start and begin to run, speeding up gradually. The voltage would continue to drop down to around nine volts, at which time the motor would suddenly shut off and the voltage would immediately jump back to 24 volts and the cycle would repeat. I NEVER switched the position of the dead battery as Mr. Bedini shows in the schematic.
To try and get the system to keep from shutting off, I ASSUMED I needed to keep the battery in the third position from becoming charged, so I began to hook loads to it. I was able to run incredible loads for weeks without the primaries losing charge. It worked, and then it didn't.
I have been working with this setup for four years now, and lately with a couple friends. We are seeing SOMETHING, and it appears we are able to get power out of the system for short periods of time and as long as we let the batteries rest. They appear to completely recover. Those are the ONLY claims we are making at this point. It is NOT producing the kind of power I got out of my original system, but it is doing some things we believe are worth investigating. Hence this post.
We have learned that AGM batteries are essential in the third position. Take a brushed DC motor and connect one wire to the positive of battery 1. Connect the negative of battery 1 to the positive of battery 2. Connect the neg of battery 2 to the negative AGM battery. One that doesn't want to hold more than a couple volts. You need a LOAD ON THE MOTOR for this to work. My recent, SUCCESSFUL build is using a UFO modified Razor scooter motor. I haven't tried to use a standard motor with this setup yet because when you have something that works, DON'T FIX IT. (Although my original setup used a standard brushed DC motor!!!)
When you flip the switch the very first time, the motor SHOULD NOT START immediately. (If it does, you do not have a battery that will work in the third position) I have been told that the reason the motor does not start is because of the potential difference between the “stack” of two in series and the single battery, and that it takes a few minutes for that potential to change, as the battery in the third position charges. I have also been told that it doesn't start because there is not enough juice in the third battery to complete a circuit. I don't agree with either of these possible explanations. Read on for why, though I may of course be dead WRONG. In a few minutes the motor will start running. If it doesn't, the battery you have is so bad, it is beyond hope for this project. I wouldn’t wait more than 15 or 20 minutes. IF, HOWEVER, YOU CAN SPIN THE MOTOR BY HAND AND THE MOTOR STARTS, YOU CAN USE THIS BATTERY.
If you have an analogue meter on battery 3, you should see the voltage jump (when the switch is thrown) to 24+ volts. It will go slowly down to around 18 volts, and THEN the motor will start. The voltage will go down to around 12 or 13 volts, and stabilize. IF the voltage continues to go down to around 9 volts, and the motor shuts off, the voltage jumps back up to 24 volts and the cycle repeats, you ABSOLUTELY have a winner.
This experiment is to make sure you have the RIGHT kind of battery. At this point you need to stop and let your primary batteries sit and rest overnight, recharging them if they don't recover. You also need to drain battery three by connecting a light to it and leaving it overnight. THERE are REASONS for doing this, so DO IT!!
AFTER DOING ALL THAT AND LETTING THE SYSTEM REST OVERNIGHT, reconnect everything. Flip the switch to start the system and you will find that this time the motor starts IMMEDIATELY. Shut it off, add a small load like an auto dome light or even an auto headlight...something to keep battery three from charging. I only had you start it so you could ponder the following.
So…..if the delay in starting you saw yesterday were because of a difference in potential between the set of two batteries in series and the single battery, when could that potential possibly be GREATER than when you have just charged the two main batteries to FULL CHARGE while at the same time, DISCHARGING the bad battery all night long with a bulb on it????
If the delay yesterday was because there was not enough JUICE in the bad battery, how could there possibly be LESS juice than there is right now, when you have drained the bad battery ALL NIGHT LONG. It should have NO juice. None. So you should be having to put some juice into the battery for the motor to start. It should take LONGER to start than it did yesterday, and yet the motor started immediately.
It is my belief that we are talking about some kind of magnetic alignment that takes place in a bad battery and continues as long as there is a load on the battery, and also lasts for a couple days after the load is removed. If you can let it sit for a couple days, hook it back into the system, flip the switch, and once again the motor will not start immediately.
One other experiment. With a bad battery in position 3, I flipped the switch and the motor did not start. I grabbed the motor shaft and gave it a spin. The motor turned slowly because I had spun it, but it continued to slowly spin at the same rate, gradually picking up speed until it reached regular running speed. It made me wonder if the motor was not acting AS A GENERATOR at the same time it was acting as a motor.
Once you have the two batteries fully charged, the bad battery drained, and a small load connected between the terminals on battery 3, you are ready for the experimenting to really begin.
You must MATCH the load on the motor with a load on battery 3. I use a bunch of small bulbs with switches to connect each one to battery three. Flip a switch to turn on one of these lights and the motor will immediately speed up. Let it run for five minutes. If the loads are matched, the motor will suddenly speed up AGAIN. If it does, make sure you KNOW how much load you had on battery three when this happened, so you don’t waste time next time. When you are in the zone, the speed and torque will be awesome. You can continue to add loads to battery three, but add a load, wait five minutes, add a load, wait five minutes. At some point the load will cause the motor to drop out of the "zone" Now you have two choices. Reduce the load on battery 3, or INCREASE the load on the motor to get it back in the zone.
I have done no runs longer than a couple hours.
What I have done is given you all the shortcuts and information I have to help you be successful. I make no promises and share no results. We need people to test this and help expand on what we think and what we know. If you do not have the patience to run the tests over long periods of time and watch the batteries to see how they recover, you will run them down, and the system will not work for you.
UFO motor/ 3BGS - YouTube
UFO/ 3BGS test 2 - YouTube
3BGS Test 3 - YouTube
Mr. Bedini, I hope you have the time to comment on this. It is your baby. I just happened to get extremely lucky with some combination I still do NOT understand. You may believe i am full of crap, but I know what I saw, and I was lucky enough to get the thing working a few days ago just like the original device. If you think I am full of crap, I'm sorry, because your opinions and ideas on this would be much appreciated. Regardless, I will continue working on it, because once you have seen what is possible, nobody can convince you that you haven't seen it.
The setup I had working JUST LIKE THE ORIGINAL (which means charging the primaries while there is a load on the motor and a load on battery 3) a few days ago is no longer working as well as it was, and I am not sure why. When I took my motor apart, one of the four brushes that make up the power input circuit was not making contact and two of the 16 sections on the armature (which by coincidence were nearly 180 degrees from each other) were not making contact. This is a UFO modified motor, so it has two commutators, and the two sections on the armature were "dead" which COULD mean it was acting more like a pulse motor. I do NOT know when these problems occurred. So any one of these three "problems" may have been why the motor was so successful in the videos I show here, OR SOME COMBINATION OF THESE PROBLEMS, or it could have been the timing. Those are the variables. All three of the problems are now fixed, and it still isn't working like it was.
I hope this is of interest and not too far off topic for this forum, since it IS based on something Mr. Bedini published.
Dave Bowling
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