Solid state SSG

[John_Koorn]

Hi Mike, like I said earlier I pretty much tune by adjusting the base resistor to the c20 rate of the primary battery. But I'm no expert on solid state builds.

i think I read somewhere that you should tune to "the best charging for least draw current", but of course this all depends on the condition and state of charge of the charge battery and is a little to general.

i mucked around for a long time trying to tune to the resonant frequency of either the charge battery or the primary battery, but for me this was trying to find a needle in a burning haystack in the dark with a blindfold on.

so that's why I'm interested in how other people are tuning theirs.

John K.

[BobZilla]

Hi guys,
I have a little to add to tuning ideas. As I said before when I was first experimenting with my setup I always kept my pot on high resistance, low draw from primary and Pop, Pop, if you listen via a radio. This did work even for large batteries but the time to charge would be far too long to be reasonable. So after weeks of playing with it like that I said to myself, well screw it I am going to turn it up and if I blow transistors or cook batteries so be it. Much to my surprise I did not cook anything and my charging improved greatly.

I do think that on the low setting it would have charged them, maybe even better efficiency over the long haul but I could not wait a week+ to charge a battery.

What I think is helpful to keep in mind when tuning is that although we do not usually care about current output on these circuits because it is so low, it does factor into the big picture. I think there is a threshold that has to be met to get the battery moving so to say. Granted it is going to be a very tiny bit of current but it is necessary to start the battery moving. I do not think it even needs to be measured but just something to keep in mind, a little goes a long way.

This may be why small batteries are happy to charge on my machine with the resistance set high, because even at that low output the small batteries are getting just enough current to start moving. Larger batteries do not sense enough current on such a low setting and will not perform.

When I lower resistance and the draw is in the 900ma - 1.1 A range I think it is throwing mostly high voltage BUT a little current and just enough for large batteries to start accepting the charge.

I am not suggesting that you want or need much current on the output, only a tiny bit. Mr. Bedini has said over and over that current kills radiant and I am not trying to contradict that at all. What I am saying is that the tiny bit that gets through needs to be just high enough to match what your battery needs to start the charge process, no more though.


Ok so that is just all speculation, theory.

A little more info on my charging process that I did not mention. You guys seem to be dealing with heat issues or at least are careful not to over do things and cause a heat up. On my system I do not observe heating. I have one of those laser pointer thermometers and I do take readings. If I point it around the base leg of the transistor it will be about three degrees above ambient for the room. The resistors on base will be about 6 degrees above, or you could say just a bit more than the base area of the transistor. All of the other components like diodes and the coil itself stay cool at ambient temps.

Another thing I did not mention is the audible tone that the coil makes in this range. I had another thread about this topic but basically when driving the coil in the high setting ( low resistance on pot drawing 900ma - 1.1 A) the coil sings. I am not talking about using a radio to hear it, although you can do that too. I mean the coil makes noise that you hear with your ears. On this machine it is a steady hum, not such a high pitch as a squeel, more like a hum. The tone does correlate to the sweet spots as well. Remember I said that I have to back the pot down as the primary goes lower on voltage to keep the sweet spot? Well I have gotten to a point where I can tell just by listening to the coil. When it falls out of the sweet spot the pitch will go just a bit higher. I give a slight adjustment to the pot ( removing a little resistance) and it falls back into the right tone. I rarely bother with hooking an Amp meter in the path anymore because I can just hear it now. Keep in mind that this is all on a machine which I am not tinkering with so I have come to know it's behavior, it stays consistent.

Well I know that was a long post, I hope it is useful. ---Bob

[BobZilla]

@Mike

Okay we need the current to build up into a cap and then dump/power slam it on any size battery.

See what I mean? Without the build up of current in a cap where the operator can set it to dump at any current and any voltage, we are at the mercy of only the raw current the ENERGIZER can produce.

This method of cap charging and dumping permits us to charge a wide range of batteries effectively on low or high output from the CHARGER.

Tuning is also done to ONE CAP and when the tuning it done, YOU ARE DONE wondering if you are in a poorly tuning spot or a spot where we all want to be heheh.

Yup, I hear what you are saying and it is sound thinking. I am on both sides of the fence with it though. I DO want to learn the art of cap dumping and I am experimenting with it now but have nothing all too great to post on the subject.

On the other side though is doing it right from the circuit (how I currently do it). This has it's advantages too. For example I have heard it said that caps can de-sulphate by slamming current and I believe that but cannot verify for myself at this time. For me a big part of these devices is not only charging but also salvaging otherwise useless batteries.

I CAN verify that the other method of hitting the battery with HIGH voltage low current will absolutely work. I have had great success reviving salvage batteries with my machines all of which use the high voltage approach. I am not saying one way is better than the other, obviously I couldn't speak to the cap dump.

As I understand it, with the direct method like I use you are also conditioning the electrolyte which after done properly will result in much faster charges and higher capacity. I don't know if putting a cap ahead of the charge battery will still reap these rewards? I do know that doing it without the cap keeps the battery practically free of sulphate because each and every time you recharge you are cleaning the plates back to no build-up condition.

With all of that said you are absolutely right in that the machine must be tuned to match both the primary and the charge side batteries which is not convenient if you have multiple sizes that you are trying to work with. Tuning to a cap as you suggest would make that a non issue. So I am not in favor of one way or the other really I just see them both as having advantages and disadvantages. I want to learn more about cap dumping and maybe I will have a better formed opinion.

[John_Koorn]

Yeh John lets keep this one going

This is what I have been doing and it takes time to replay

Radiant SG Oscillator Tube John Bedini - YouTube
Bedini Motor - tuning the energizer using a bulb - YouTube
Tuning My Multi Coil Bedini Wheel Part 1 - YouTube
Tuning My Multi Coil Bedini Wheel Part 2 - YouTube
Electric OU: Tuning the Bedini NP/Schoogirl Motor Base Resistance - YouTube
2 Coil Bedini Running Tuning Tips Amp Draws Outputs - YouTube
My 3rd Bedini Motor Part 3 with an Oscilloscope monitoring Trigger and Drive Signals - YouTube
The Workings Of The SG Oscillator - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qpxFSRPKU0&list=UU2z8Z2l24hGzRLNPJk1jdkw Bedini Motor - tuning the energizer using a bulb - YouTube Tuning My Multi Coil Bedini Wheel Part 1 - YouTube Tuning My Multi Coil Bedini Wheel Part 2 - YouTube Electric OU: Tuning the Bedini NP/Schoogirl Motor Base Resistance - YouTube 2 Coil Bedini Running Tuning Tips Amp Draws Outputs - YouTube My 3rd Bedini Motor Part 3 with an Oscilloscope monitoring Trigger and Drive Signals - YouTube The Workings Of The SG Oscillator - YouTube

Hey Mike,

Thanks for posting those links. Was good to review them again.

I was thinking about tuning again and then I thought of a simple method that may work. I haven't tried this yet, but as soon as I get a chance to I'll let you know how it goes.

My idea is to basically hook up a cap pulser to the output and measure the time it takes to charge the cap against the draw current. For example, if it takes 1 second to charge a cap at a draw of 1A that would calculate out to an "X" of 1.0

If I then adjust the draw current (by tweaking the base resistor) to a draw of 0.5A and it only takes 1.5 seconds to charge the same cap that would make "X" = 3.0. The idea being to shoot for the highest "X".

Anybody, should be able to do this with an analog meter and a stop watch. Of course, using an oscilloscope to measure the cap charge time and the average current draw with a current probe would be a lot more accurate.

This method doesn't rely on the condition of the charge battery so much, however depending on the type of cap pulser you are using the cap dump frequency may get faster as the battery charges up. I'd probably also use a stable DC power supply for the primary when doing this.

John K.

[min2oly]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for posting those links. Was good to review them again.

I was thinking about tuning again and then I thought of a simple method that may work. I haven't tried this yet, but as soon as I get a chance to I'll let you know how it goes.

My idea is to basically hook up a cap pulser to the output and measure the time it takes to charge the cap against the draw current. For example, if it takes 1 second to charge a cap at a draw of 1A that would calculate out to an "X" of 1.0

If I then adjust the draw current (by tweaking the base resistor) to a draw of 0.5A and it only takes 1.5 seconds to charge the same cap that would make "X" = 3.0. The idea being to shoot for the highest "X".

Anybody, should be able to do this with an analog meter and a stop watch. Of course, using an oscilloscope to measure the cap charge time and the average current draw with a current probe would be a lot more accurate.

This method doesn't rely on the condition of the charge battery so much, however depending on the type of cap pulser you are using the cap dump frequency may get faster as the battery charges up. I'd probably also use a stable DC power supply for the primary when doing this.

John K.

I like this idea. It reminds me of what Les was doing in one of his vids, can't find it now.
Anyway, Les was running into a situation where the charge battery did effect the cap dump. Kind of strange, it doesn't seem like it should. What if we dump to another cap that had an incandescent light bulb for a load, or just a big 1ohm resistor? we could put an amp meter on the load as well.
This would allow us to view the speed of the dump as well as calculate the joules used from each dump. I guess we could try it each way and see if it makes a difference. This is a nice simple method to calculate joules in joules out.
Thanks for sharing the idea,
Patrick

[John_Koorn]

Hi Patrick,

if you have a cap pulser that dumps the cap at a specific voltage (e.g. 25v), the dump frequency will increase as the charge battery rises in voltage. But I like you idea of using a bulb or 1ohm resistor as a load. You could just dump the cap into that load and not have to worry about the fluctuations of the charge battery.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Hi Mike, I would not recommend a coil any longer than 130'. Adding more wire is just going to increase the resistance of the wire. This will result in poorer charging.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for posting those links. Was good to review them again.

I was thinking about tuning again and then I thought of a simple method that may work. I haven't tried this yet, but as soon as I get a chance to I'll let you know how it goes.

My idea is to basically hook up a cap pulser to the output and measure the time it takes to charge the cap against the draw current. For example, if it takes 1 second to charge a cap at a draw of 1A that would calculate out to an "X" of 1.0

If I then adjust the draw current (by tweaking the base resistor) to a draw of 0.5A and it only takes 1.5 seconds to charge the same cap that would make "X" = 3.0. The idea being to shoot for the highest "X".

Anybody, should be able to do this with an analog meter and a stop watch. Of course, using an oscilloscope to measure the cap charge time and the average current draw with a current probe would be a lot more accurate.

This method doesn't rely on the condition of the charge battery so much, however depending on the type of cap pulser you are using the cap dump frequency may get faster as the battery charges up. I'd probably also use a stable DC power supply for the primary when doing this.

John K.

I did do this experiment a while back to try and find the "sweet spot" for a solid state build.

Basically I found that the harder you drive a SS build, the less efficient it gets. For example, I connected to the output of the SS SG to a small comparator (1 x 15,000uF cap). The comparator was dumping to a 12v 50W halogen bulb as a load.

When the SS SG was tuned to draw 1A @ 12.5v I was getting 13.8 dumps/sec. When tuned to 2A draw - 22.4 dumps/sec. When tuned to 3A draw - only 29.3 dumps/sec.

Nothing was getting hot, so I wasn't losing too much in heat as I drive it harder. When the SS SG is tuned to a lower draw current the frequency is higher than when tuned to a high draw current.

For example, the 1A draw had the SS SG running at 2,690Hz, 2A - 1,400Hz and 3A - 950Hz.

My conclusion is that the higher the frequency, the more pulses are charging the cap up. More pulses = more radiant and less current charging the cap.

Actually my best result was only 0.5A draw current. This had the SS SG running at 6,480Hz and 7.1 dumps/sec from the comparator to the bulb.

Next experiment is to run a 12v 10Ah priamry with the SS SG tuned to 0.5A draw, output connected to comparator and comparator output to a 12v 10Ah charge battery.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Sorry Mike, I'm not with you at all here. We're not talking about rotored machines here. The solid state SG is a differen animal.
I don't understand what you are trying to say.

John K.

[wrtner]

use patricks (min2oly)

Tom C

Could someone link to this circuit mentioned in Post #2? (or the most recommended one).
I cannot find it.
Thanks.

Paul-R

[Gustavo Roque]

Hello my friend BobZilla .

Very good your circuit .
What is the purpose of the capacitor ?

You could send the schematic ?
I need to recover two batteries in series , each 6V / 315A TROJAN . Forming 12V output , but in my current circuit 'm unable to recover because I think he is weak.

My e- mail: risgustavo@gmail.com

Or send it here in the forum .
Hugs,

Gustavo Roque .

[BobZilla]

It's been almost three years since I commented in this thread lol

Gustavo the machine I was talking about here was shared on another thread which I will link below for you.

This SS went through a variety of configurations and abuse ;-)

Link:
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/showthread.php?t=821

[Gustavo Roque]

Hello my friend Bob . Thank you .
A question, I need to rejuvenate 2 batteries TROJAN J305 ( http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/dat...ata_Sheets.pdf )
I am using series to form 12V / 315A .

Your Circuit that is possible for me to succeed in relation to the rejuvenation ?