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For those of you who have seen the ‘Lagace’ video, where he purports to sustain a 100W resistive load using a small cap dump circuit, it gives some hope to many that this may be possible and easily achievable. This video is at: https://youtu.be/QYpwTJJ3lh8
While I think it is possible to draw in energy from the environment using this type of pulsing ‘far from equilibrium’ system, having looked much more closely at this video, I believe the evidence is being misinterpreted and the wrong impression is being given. While I expect this is unintentional, and due to presumably a lack of some basic physics understanding, I felt it of value to clarify a few details so viewers can make a more realistic appraisal of this demonstration.
I understand he has made other videos that are helpful and supportive of the Bedine principle and I am only commenting on this particular one, in particular, due to its significant implications for fellow researchers such as myself.
The first point of interest is the starting voltage of the battery that you can briefly see at video time 1.17 and which is shown and enhanced in Fig 1. The value is 13.24V so the battery has been freshly charged and is not starting to run the 100W load from around 12.50V as implied later.
When the 100W light bulb is turned on via the inverter, the battery voltage naturally drops and which is to be expected when about 8A is being drawn down for the load. The voltage drops from 13.24 down to 12.50V (at time 2.13) and where part of this voltage drop is due to the internal resistance of the battery itself.
As time proceeds the voltage drops further, as expected and normal for a battery under load. The timeline of the voltage change over the video is depicted below and where the voltages are not drawn on an accurate scale and the X axis shows the video times where these voltages can be seen.
After about 7 mins we see a small 0.01V increase from the lowest voltage reached and over the whole demonstration the voltage rises back up by 0.04V.
The first and main conclusion from all this is that clearly, the system is not drawing in 100W of power from the environment for, if it was, then the voltage would not have needed to drop down nearly a whole volt from 13.24V to 12.41V but would have remained somewhere close to the original level. If indeed the cap dump pulses were serving to draw in local ambient energy, then the only voltage drop would be due to the 8A passing through the internal resistance of the battery.
The small voltage increase seen in the second half of the video is likely due to a modest energy influx, probably less than 10W equivalent and which is helping to drive the voltage back up a little. The only way for the voltage curve to reach back up to the original voltage level would be for the system to draw in considerably in excess of 100W to both offset the load and also to ‘pay back’ the energy drawn from the battery’s electrochemistry.
It is likely that if this demonstration was continued then the voltage would level off at a value reflecting the fact that overall there is still a net draw of 80-90W on the battery and, in keeping with normal battery behavior, the curve would remain fairly level until the battery starts to run out, whereupon it will decline steadily before a rapid decline near the end of the available capacity (Ah).
Overall, if the generator was genuinely supporting a 100W resistive load then the voltage would have remained fairly stable from the start and, as shown in the video, it gives the impression that an initial voltage of around 12.45 is maintained from the start, whereas in fact that is not the case and there is a significant and typical voltage drop as the battery itself drives the load.
My aim here is not to dismiss claims of energy harvesting for, as those who know of my own research into this, I believe this is possible and my current work is in developing variable voltage cap damp discharges that can be controlled rather than determined by the breakdown voltage of a Neon lamp, as Lagace uses. By experimenting with a wide range of voltages and capacitances, it is hoped that I can find a configuration and set of values that will encourage this phenomenon and allow others to repeat it.
Like many, I was encouraged by this video but as time proceeded with my own experiments I had reason to question the interpretation of his readings and setup. Maybe there is a reason why he does not specify the battery starting voltage and point out the entirely normal voltage drop under load, as it would detract from what he is trying to demonstrate? However, without that information, the demonstration is not only incomplete but open to, in my opinion, serious misinterpretation.
I will of course allow each to draw their own conclusions but again I am reminded that, as in all areas of scientific inquiry we have to guard against only presenting those results that support our own viewpoint and “seeing only our own narrative and expectations”.
Julian
While I think it is possible to draw in energy from the environment using this type of pulsing ‘far from equilibrium’ system, having looked much more closely at this video, I believe the evidence is being misinterpreted and the wrong impression is being given. While I expect this is unintentional, and due to presumably a lack of some basic physics understanding, I felt it of value to clarify a few details so viewers can make a more realistic appraisal of this demonstration.
I understand he has made other videos that are helpful and supportive of the Bedine principle and I am only commenting on this particular one, in particular, due to its significant implications for fellow researchers such as myself.
The first point of interest is the starting voltage of the battery that you can briefly see at video time 1.17 and which is shown and enhanced in Fig 1. The value is 13.24V so the battery has been freshly charged and is not starting to run the 100W load from around 12.50V as implied later.
When the 100W light bulb is turned on via the inverter, the battery voltage naturally drops and which is to be expected when about 8A is being drawn down for the load. The voltage drops from 13.24 down to 12.50V (at time 2.13) and where part of this voltage drop is due to the internal resistance of the battery itself.
As time proceeds the voltage drops further, as expected and normal for a battery under load. The timeline of the voltage change over the video is depicted below and where the voltages are not drawn on an accurate scale and the X axis shows the video times where these voltages can be seen.
After about 7 mins we see a small 0.01V increase from the lowest voltage reached and over the whole demonstration the voltage rises back up by 0.04V.
The first and main conclusion from all this is that clearly, the system is not drawing in 100W of power from the environment for, if it was, then the voltage would not have needed to drop down nearly a whole volt from 13.24V to 12.41V but would have remained somewhere close to the original level. If indeed the cap dump pulses were serving to draw in local ambient energy, then the only voltage drop would be due to the 8A passing through the internal resistance of the battery.
The small voltage increase seen in the second half of the video is likely due to a modest energy influx, probably less than 10W equivalent and which is helping to drive the voltage back up a little. The only way for the voltage curve to reach back up to the original voltage level would be for the system to draw in considerably in excess of 100W to both offset the load and also to ‘pay back’ the energy drawn from the battery’s electrochemistry.
It is likely that if this demonstration was continued then the voltage would level off at a value reflecting the fact that overall there is still a net draw of 80-90W on the battery and, in keeping with normal battery behavior, the curve would remain fairly level until the battery starts to run out, whereupon it will decline steadily before a rapid decline near the end of the available capacity (Ah).
Overall, if the generator was genuinely supporting a 100W resistive load then the voltage would have remained fairly stable from the start and, as shown in the video, it gives the impression that an initial voltage of around 12.45 is maintained from the start, whereas in fact that is not the case and there is a significant and typical voltage drop as the battery itself drives the load.
My aim here is not to dismiss claims of energy harvesting for, as those who know of my own research into this, I believe this is possible and my current work is in developing variable voltage cap damp discharges that can be controlled rather than determined by the breakdown voltage of a Neon lamp, as Lagace uses. By experimenting with a wide range of voltages and capacitances, it is hoped that I can find a configuration and set of values that will encourage this phenomenon and allow others to repeat it.
Like many, I was encouraged by this video but as time proceeded with my own experiments I had reason to question the interpretation of his readings and setup. Maybe there is a reason why he does not specify the battery starting voltage and point out the entirely normal voltage drop under load, as it would detract from what he is trying to demonstrate? However, without that information, the demonstration is not only incomplete but open to, in my opinion, serious misinterpretation.
I will of course allow each to draw their own conclusions but again I am reminded that, as in all areas of scientific inquiry we have to guard against only presenting those results that support our own viewpoint and “seeing only our own narrative and expectations”.
Julian