160 Amp solar Tracker 5

[RS_]

JB, I cant wait to see this combination of circuits in action.... See Ya'll there.............

[Allwest]

Hey John Bedini
This is your old buddy Allwest
I know this may not be the environment to ask you a question on the crystal cells BUT you are hard to get in contact with
I have had some good luck on home made high power cells, and was wondering if you had experimented with charging these types of cells, or do you have any suggestions on charging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7R4GTTNTIk

I am sure you are busy but a response would be appreciated
Thanks

[guyzzemf]

all of the products sold by TeslagenX and tesla chargers come directly from Johns shop in Idaho. I am not sure what it is you are looking for, we have chosen at TeslagenX to offer everything John manufactures, including his amplifiers, and the energy from the vacuum DVD series, while Aaron and peter have chosen to focus on chargers, solar trackers, and the books that Peter and Aaron write. Aaron also sells the ASEA actvated water, which is amazing also!


Rick is manufacturing chargers without a License from Energenx, nothing you buy from Rick comes out of John's shop, it is all copycat clones with inferior parts.

Tom C

IF RICK IS HERE WONT BE HARD TO SPOT --LOOK FOR THE PERSON WHO IS PUSHING ON TRANES TO HARD LOL

[John_Bedini]

information

Steve, All,

Yes Chuck and I have made cells like that. We have been working on something new that does not require any water after the first time.
It seems that it is all in how the chemicals are mixed.

Those asking questions on the Linear Amplifier for Audio must wait as they use a special linear device which is in a special TO 3 case and some things about it when mounting it is critical along with the layout. Feedback is very important along with the Nobel networks for speaker protection. The cost to make this device is very high because of the heat sinks I will see if I can get a video up tonight, I must clean up the bench as I have been just crammed with work on the new 3 amp charger, but I'm trying to reduce it in size even more, I'm even thinking about making a Hybrid Module, resistors are the limitations along with the heat generated if not mounted correctly, this would be a discreet device. My etching machines can only go down so small. I would like to get it in a two by two square.

The Video of the amplifier will not do it justice because of the sound on my camera, But will give it a try. You will find this type of Class A Amplifier is amplified in current and therefore has no bandwidth limitations all the way to 1Mhz flat. The limitation being in the voltage divider networks as you can not exceed the regulator voltage input. Two of us manufactures in the 60's built the amplifiers one being Electro Research, John Iverson and Bedini Electronics Inc. They were used with Klipschorn speaker systems and Electro-voice systems and would out do the tube single ended triode class A's. The front end or voltage gain of the amp was using a wide band integrated circuit similar to the LF 411. RCA had wide band video amps in metal cans then. The power level was not important as it was found that Amplifiers were running at just one third of the power level. so haveing 4 to 5 watts was very loud with the speakers used.

Today we have plastic chips that if you can take the heat away work real good. In the video look at the size of the heat sinks, this amp heat wise runs at 85c so it is very warm to the touch and must be well ventilated. It is a heat fin design. The solar tracker 5 uses much more current so it is necessary to forced air cooled as it uses more devices, resistors are important as they must be wire wound 1 per-cent.
The Solar Tracker 5, what made me do it. The batteries in a solar house normally are new. The problem being that they never get charged so pure DC is the way to go such as in forming the battery. It is important that the batteries are pushed right up to 15 Volts in a 12 volt system and 30 volts in a 24 volt system. If you can not push that battery up and it sits in a non charged condition is when the damage occurs. Charging batteries to 13.80 volts just causes them to sulfate. After your battery is in that condition the only thing that can fix it is pulse charging or a Radiant charge like from the SSG machine. But the best you can do is to about 80 per-cent. By that time the battery will not last long unless it is charged to full and kept in that condition charged and discharged.

The Tracker 5 can push all at once if the panels can keep up with it. I have never seen panels that can do laboratory conditions in the environment at what the panel is rated at. It is mandatory that you push that battery right up to full charge or the battery damage will happen. The other problem is you must taper that charge quickly so damage does not happen, That is the reason for feedback ( looking at impedance of cells) in the circuits. The Tracker 5 will maintain at the batteries float voltage as that has nothing to do with equalizing of the cells as each cell is not made the same so it kind of stupid to say you can and that's the reason some batteries can never be pushed to float. What tells the real story is the impedance of the cell and that is what you must look at and adjust accordingly, without the low impedance of the battery you have no reserve power for anything. You can tell if your generator comes on or your batteries are low in reserve power if the charger really put the power in the battery. The other thing is power point tracking which is an average of cloudy days VS sunny days so did you really get the highest charge at 13.8 volts?....

The experiment taking place right now is the Tracker 5 charger for Lithium Iron batteries. Why this battery, You can take it down to nothing and with a small current bring it right back to full and we will do a video on that too. All the new Garden light use these batteries. Charging of this battery is much different so the impedance must be tracked with small currents.and a much different impedance. Some things about this battery is that you can not pulse charge and no Radiant charging, it must be done with a linear charger. This is the reason for the conversion on the SSG machine so you can charge them and batteries like it.
More later
John

[Aaron Murakami]

John asked me to post this in this thread so you can see the S3A12 push big car batteries to the top:

The first battery, I didn't show the charging just the end, but the voltage jumped up, then dropped, and repeated and finally went straight up...the drops show the sulphation going back into solution repairing itself.

The second battery, I showed putting the charger straight to the battery and it did NOT jump up to a higher voltage. That shows there are no sulphation issues and it starts to take the amp hours right off the bat.

[John_Bedini]

linear current amplifier

The Linear Amplifiers used in this device are no longer in production as we had to do them discreetly in the beginning. The Solar Tracker 5 is just one of the many offshoots of the technology in amplifiers.
Technology has advanced in how current feedback works in this type of device works
The Video shows that with the correct arrangement with linear current amplifiers many things are possible as the circuits may be used for a verity of different applications. Using this for solar charging was an idea I had for a very long time. I applied this technology with variations in the Solar Tracker 5 because of the stability in a single ended mode. The feedback of the circuit looks at the impedance of the batteries and then regulates to the proper voltage. In the amplifier the feedback is used to control the gain of the current being modulated. Meter indications in VU are showing the current being modulated within the regulator circuits and that current indicates how loud the amplifier is playing. Clipping level is far above the red indication of the meters that being 3 dB above full power. If the Linear current amplifier exceeds heat levels automatic shutdown will occur and current levels fall automatically to protect the device (thermal shutdown).

[Faraday88]

Hi John,
Just curious..why is no patent filed on Linear Amplifier to Battery Charging..?
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[John_Koorn]

Fascinating video John.

Would it be fair to say that the Tracker 5 is a "Class A" solar charge controller because it is using the same Linear Regulator circuit?

If so, would it be possible to make a "stereo" Tracker 5 using one solar panel array and two battery banks as the outputs? (Not sure why anyone would want to do that, just curious if it's possible)

John K.

[John_Bedini]

factory select parts

Faraday88 and John K,

First of all let me explain Patents and how they offer no protection. You must be able to enforce the patent and the cost to do this is enormous with federal lawyers in court. People love to steal trade secretes especially the Chinese. This has all occurred since the outsourcing of US products, what you get back is another story. It is much better to keep it in house trade secrets and pot things. You will always find people who think they know how to do it better and understand what you did with the item. I have found to pick devices that are very hard to get so when I see them I buy them all out at thousands at a time. I have seen some of the early devices going for 75 dollars each who would spend that kind of money to try and go into production. As I have said before and has been stated I alter things by building my own networks inside things especially TO 3 devices. The point being made here is I select what I want and use it in many different ways. I have no fear that things will be copied by some, but do they want to go into production with it. If people think that you can just start a business today they have another guess coming in the USA today. You will find that a home work shops will not cut the mustard, and yes you find people who make a living on building things others will not do so home workshops work for small runs. The Tracker 5 circuit looks easy to do but it's not as everything must be calculated and tested and re-tested. at any moment in time I can change anything and I have done that. It just so happens that I have in my early days built many circuits like this and we learn by doing, sometimes calculations do not work so things must be changed to work around the problem. The best solution is to build it like I say in the beginning and then once you understand what I did move on with your ideas and see if it works better, if so you have a winner. With old time analog circuits you could have real problems since it is not really taught anymore. An example would be a old DYNACO solid state amplifier, factory select parts people, good luck. This is the reason manufactures put a factory number on the parts. The engineers are smart when it comes to doing little things so factory secrets work the best. Investors demand patents but when things get rough the rough get going and they wont help you defend it. Also when patents are issued it's at the company's expense, if you say the wrong thing you wont own it and the Government will and you wont talk about it. So maybe you understand why I will keep doing it this way.

John K,
Yes it is possible to do what your talking about but what makes the two Amplifiers different is the way the feedback works in the circuits, also the devices are much different since bandwidth is important in the Amplifier, now people have made Amplifiers but not at the power level or current I have shown in the video. Not very many could do that with split supply's as balancing is very critical. The front end of the Amplifier using a BI-FET differential that must be adjusted not to oscillate and the Nobel network must be correct for the bandwidth on the output. Normally the Regulator circuit is working with voltage dividers to achieve a ratio, and can not be exceeded with the audio input. The current is fixed and modulations applied to the current through a diff amp, so what your hearing is an amplifier in DC current mode. Two hooked in an arrangement with emitter followers so both regulators are at constant current along with the emitter followers. Audio is swinging between plus and minus to ground. The input signal is determined by the voltage divider, so it's 1/2 the DC level. Doing it that way Bandwidth can be all the way from 0 Hz to 1 Mhz, since you are limited to the voltage dividers maxim output RMS, is only 5 to 6 watts at 8 ohms and almost 12 watts at 4 ohms. In class A it is louder then the normal class AB amp, so it's 1.4 times louder. I would not make a kit out of this as it is to critical to let people do it and adjust it, but a module could be made if wattage was not important as most critical listening is done at low levels. The devices you see in the video are no longer manufactured anywhere so I would move to plastic select devices. Resistors are wire wound for heat as over 1 amp of current is constant across the devices. About 4 amps per channel so heat sinks are large. I made several of these early on for car audio people but it was limited to 5 watts so 2 ohm speakers were used heat sinks again very large and current was constant from the charging system at about 14 volts at 10 amps and protected by output capacitor.

[John_Koorn]

Thanks John, I'm not an audio guy and don't really understand how amplifiers work but I'm beginning to understand.

So with the Tracker 5, you're dealing with a variable supply depending on the sun. Is the feedback circuit used to regulate the current to the battery as the power input changes, just like in the video? If it does, is the output to the battery constant DC when the battery voltage is at 15.3 or does it oscillate when in desulphation mode?

John K.

[Faraday88]

Faraday88 and John K,

First of all let me explain Patents and how they offer no protection. You must be able to enforce the patent and the cost to do this is enormous with federal lawyers in court. People love to steal trade secretes especially the Chinese. This has all occurred since the outsourcing of US products, what you get back is another story. It is much better to keep it in house trade secrets and pot things. You will always find people who think they know how to do it better and understand what you did with the item. I have found to pick devices that are very hard to get so when I see them I buy them all out at thousands at a time. I have seen some of the early devices going for 75 dollars each who would spend that kind of money to try and go into production. As I have said before and has been stated I alter things by building my own networks inside things especially TO 3 devices. The point being made here is I select what I want and use it in many different ways. I have no fear that things will be copied by some, but do they want to go into production with it. If people think that you can just start a business today they have another guess coming in the USA today. You will find that a home work shops will not cut the mustard, and yes you find people who make a living on building things others will not do so home workshops work for small runs. The Tracker 5 circuit looks easy to do but it's not as everything must be calculated and tested and re-tested. at any moment in time I can change anything and I have done that. It just so happens that I have in my early days built many circuits like this and we learn by doing, sometimes calculations do not work so things must be changed to work around the problem. The best solution is to build it like I say in the beginning and then once you understand what I did move on with your ideas and see if it works better, if so you have a winner. With old time analog circuits you could have real problems since it is not really taught anymore. An example would be a old DYNACO solid state amplifier, factory select parts people, good luck. This is the reason manufactures put a factory number on the parts. The engineers are smart when it comes to doing little things so factory secrets work the best. Investors demand patents but when things get rough the rough get going and they wont help you defend it. Also when patents are issued it's at the company's expense, if you say the wrong thing you wont own it and the Government will and you wont talk about it. So maybe you understand why I will keep doing it this way.

John K,
Yes it is possible to do what your talking about but what makes the two Amplifiers different is the way the feedback works in the circuits, also the devices are much different since bandwidth is important in the Amplifier, now people have made Amplifiers but not at the power level or current I have shown in the video. Not very many could do that with split supply's as balancing is very critical. The front end of the Amplifier using a BI-FET differential that must be adjusted not to oscillate and the Nobel network must be correct for the bandwidth on the output. Normally the Regulator circuit is working with voltage dividers to achieve a ratio, and can not be exceeded with the audio input. The current is fixed and modulations applied to the current through a diff amp, so what your hearing is an amplifier in DC current mode. Two hooked in an arrangement with emitter followers so both regulators are at constant current along with the emitter followers. Audio is swinging between plus and minus to ground. The input signal is determined by the voltage divider, so it's 1/2 the DC level. Doing it that way Bandwidth can be all the way from 0 Hz to 1 Mhz, since you are limited to the voltage dividers maxim output RMS, is only 5 to 6 watts at 8 ohms and almost 12 watts at 4 ohms. In class A it is louder then the normal class AB amp, so it's 1.4 times louder. I would not make a kit out of this as it is to critical to let people do it and adjust it, but a module could be made if wattage was not important as most critical listening is done at low levels. The devices you see in the video are no longer manufactured anywhere so I would move to plastic select devices. Resistors are wire wound for heat as over 1 amp of current is constant across the devices. About 4 amps per channel so heat sinks are large. I made several of these early on for car audio people but it was limited to 5 watts so 2 ohm speakers were used heat sinks again very large and current was constant from the charging system at about 14 volts at 10 amps and protected by output capacitor.

Thanks a lot John, it was a very Candid opinion from you, I know and understand what kind of effort and pain you have undergone to bring this to the level where it is today, and I also see that you build Hybrid of your Inventions so one is not very clear in figuring out what is what...!!! not many can capable to do this I must say.
I live in India and it is all the more hostile in 'Patent claiming business' and one must do the same trick as what have rightly said. (potting the device is what most of the 'new' devices do here also) I am keen to bring this wondrous technology in this part of the world, I see no parallel Battery Life enhancing technology here in India, and people are eagerly awaiting to see the dawn of some thing which would do that.
Best Regards,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Hey John K , I am sailing in the same boat, I do not understand the Amplifier as well, but now with its application on Batteries it has become mandatory to understand it...
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Lman]

Hello everybody !

Hi all,

Long time reader and follower, I have been shy to post my thoughts as I started self-teaching myself electronics just two years ago. Being a musician by education and practicing sound engineer, I could not resist posting after I have seen the recent videos of John Bedini.
One word - amazing.
What John has shown us in these videos is that an amplifier is just an amplifier. And because it says audio it means that it is calculated to the audio specification required, but it does not mean that it can not be used for something else. And in the case of the linear current amp (which is also the Solar Tracker 5 technology ) John has done it in the most efficient and clever way I have seen.

John K, Faraday88 and all non audio guys, I recommend you do some 5-10 minutes research about the different audio amplifier classes. If I get it, you will get it for sure. And knowing now that an audio amplifier can be used for other uses it is good to know the different circuits.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amp...lifier-classes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier

In short Class A amplifiers are said to be the cleanest sounding but most inefficient class - about 20%. The transistor or vacuum tube is driven through the whole 360 degree cycle of the sound wave, and this is the reason for the heat. Also there is so called quiescent current, meaning it is still conducting some current when there is no audio fed to the amp. With the Class B efficiency raises but so does the distortion, and this is the reason for a new classes like AB1, AB2, D and some hybrids. So with audio it is a trade-off between advantages and disadvantages.
Talking about solar charging now you do not have this inefficiency because all depends on the sun. The sun goes up, it starts conducting. The sun goes down - the conducting ... well, probably does not stop if it catches the shining stars or the moon

What else has John shown us ? That while charging the battery we can take power, and it is not coming from the battery but from the supply first (solar or not). Just think about the implementation of that. You can come up with some ideas I am sure. I do not know any other solar product that can do that, without destroying the battery.
What else ? John mentioned generator mode in the video with the SSG ... just think about what happens when the charging battery is topped. That is the bomb for me.
Guys, if you understand all of this you would know that this is a priceless product.

Doing some research about the terms John used in the videos, I have found some links that would give hints and shed some light on what he is talking about in the videos :

http://www.electroschematics.com/668...dio-amplifier/
http://www.reuk.co.uk/LM317-High-Cur...-Regulator.htm

Not the way John has done it but gives some clues.

John B., correct me if I am wrong, but is not also a capacitor multiplier applied along with the Beta multiplier ?
Also, I am sure you have done it but if the linear current amplifier is coupled with a tube would it gain some sonic quality ?
I wonder if there is a clever way to harness the heat of the amp to heat the cathode of vacuum tubes. That would be fun to experiment with.
You have said in another post, that that audio amp would outperform tube single-ended class A - I suppose sonically, but how efficient is compared to the others ?
If I got it right it is also more efficient than the others.

And last but not least, as this is my first post in the forum I would like to say for lack of better and stronger word, thank you John Bedini for everything you have done for us opening our eyes, ears and minds. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and explaining your technology and circuits patiently to whoever wants to know it all around the world. This suits only to the wiser.
And if there is something that makes me a little sad, it is that you are better known around the world with the alternative energy products than the audio products. I wish that it was not like this as I know that the audio is your first passion, but this is another subject.
The word thank you just lost its power when it comes saying it to you John. This is how I feel learning about the linear amp and upgrading my knowledge about this technology. If I say it 1000 times it would be better but not enough, would 1001 do it ?

Sincerely
Lman

[John_Koorn]

Hi Lman,

Welcome to the forum. Great first post! I'll be sure to checkout the links your posted.

Totally agree on John B's audio achievements. I've never heard anything sound any better than when played through his amps. Perhaps he will give a demo of his 3D gear at the conference - it will blow your mind.

John K.

[John_Bedini]

The Analysis is correct

Lman ,
Thank you for your post That Analysis is correct. When the Hi-Fi market was given away in the 80's you could no longer compete in the market place.

When Electro Research, ( John Iverson) as we all worked together and the last to go would be Ampzilla ( James Bongiorno) My back ground was with Stwert Hagemann, Saul Martanz and Acoustic Control Corp and RCA. The regulator you point out is a very good starting place for anybody that is instreted in gaining knowledge. The audio Amp is a simple one that anybody can make. That little amp is a very good starting point , if someone would want to understand what is going on. Everything I have always done has been about Amplifiers and what could be done with them. The Tracker 5 uses a select device to do this function, outputs being full complementary two different regulators in one package with emitter followers. So when all is said balance and feedback is important. Anybody can do this if they know what is in the chip. Circuits are important and then the selection of the devices. Understanding in DC servo amps is very important for the control part. Every thing is inter connected to perform a function and not to boil the battery away so impedance of the battery must be looked at.

Amplifiers have been built with this method and it was done by Eric Dollard but the amp was never put into production, and that comes from Peter L who when he saw this amp talked about it, and it was done with tubes.

If one studies the link to the regulator circuit you can find out what will happen if the current gain is under estimated and the output device is not correct for series pass, the darlington transistor here is for gain but incorrect as other adjustments of components must be changed. I have seen it done this way but not very much current, the storage battery is about .0023 Mill Ohms, the circuit is running wide open without protection and the regulator is not fused . That circuit would work but a fixed regulator might work better if you understood the tricks in the ground circuit to control it along with the series pass device, the ground can be altered to work with a npn device for control, you can find ways to controll this by voltage dividers. So if you understand a 5 volt regulator positive and negative you could make any voltage you wanted within limits of the breakdown voltage of the devices. The bad part is industry has take all the control pins away and you must select a device that will work in that range. You might think of it like a negative and positive flip-flop in general terms for control. Do not get me wrong but doing it this way has no protection and no safety features, your at the limit of the device and you can not protect the regulator. Also you will find one circuit missing for stability.

Again I point out Servo Control as you must track the load and adjust between load and no load, the tracker 5 can do this as it can see if the battery is under load (By Impedance), so look at the circuits used in a car alternator, as your car goes down the road never touching the battery, and that alternator is supplying the load and floating the battery, solar panel is nothing more then that with Linear Regulator Amplifier, the Amplifier is no more then that servo controlled by impedance.

Now the next thing I want to say is that the upcoming battery is the Lithium Iron Sulfate cells at 3.2 volts at 22 mill ohms and if your into Solar Power I suggest you take serious look at them. Study the new garden lights and you find out what I'm talking about. The tracker 5 can be adjusted to work with Lithium Iron batteries but the charger must be controlled much finer for the Lithium cells to work properly. Once the charger is working properly the charging time decreases. The output of the cells is a very flat discharge curve and I have not been able to destroy them under any load. The charging is not like a lead acid battery as the Lithium cell shows almost a flat charging curve with solar cells. The current hangs in constant until the end and does not taper the same way. The other thing is it can not be charged by pulse or Radiant as this cell wants flat DC so the conversion method on the SSG would work great.