160 Amp solar Tracker 5

[Tom C]

dang due you got some fast feet!!

Tom C

[Lman]

Anyway this a schematic that sums up my understanding (all -be-it basic) of how a linear reg can be used to charge batteries. I have built a similar circuit to the one here in the diagram.

Here is the circuit so far...it doesn't simulate yet but I am going to try it with a conventional input and see how it goes.

Hi Joster,

You tried to post some schematics probably but seems something went wrong since they do not appear.
Anyway post them please in the thread you started about the Linear Amplifier Regulator so that we have everything in one place and the others can follow. I wanted you to read this thread first so that you get the picture from what John himself has shared here. We can quote him and discuss. This thread is about the Tesla Solar Tracker 5 and we do not want to diverge it even though the Linear Amp regulator is a modified TST5 circuit.
I will answer your questions over there as well.

Lman

[Joster]

Hey Lman,

I read the whole post finally...that's cool you record too...I have a studio and play drums in a metal band lol here's our video...would be amazing to hear one of our tracks thru one of John's amps!

http://youtu.be/A_Avwi3xVQQ

Anyway this a schematic that sums up my understanding (all -be-it basic) of how a linear reg can be used to charge batteries. I have built a similar circuit to the one here in the diagram. The input is fed by an 8 filar SS SSG that draws 17W from AC mains. When I connect the circuit it puts about .7 Amps to the battery.

My Question is...what exactly does determine (besides the input source) how much current is put to the load. I suppose that's my next area of discovery. I suppose one factor would be the darlington pair and how hard it is driven...I think I may try a pulse width signal to drive the darlington pair.

One other quick thing, when John refers to the "impedance of the battery" is he talking about batt voltage or actual resistance? I'm pretty sure it's actual resistance but I am wondering how he senses that. I assume it would be some kind of sensitive voltage divider op amp circuit that when the impedance rises because of a load being attached to the output (I assume that would happen b/c the impedance of just about any load would be greater than that of a 12V batt) it would divert the current to run the load and float the battery.

Here is the circuit so far...it doesn't simulate yet but I am going to try it with a conventional input and see how it goes.

[Lman]

Thank you Aaron for your post.
I did not know about the lower angles of the amorphous and CigS compared to the crystalline, and this is important for the efficiency.
It seems the combination TST5 + amorphous panels will be unbeatable until the newly developed solar cells become available and affordable to the average customer. And I assume that is not going to be soon.

Regards
Lman

[Aaron Murakami]

Hi all,

The free e-book "Solar Secrets" of Peter Lindemann got me really into thinking.
Since crystalline silicon and amorphous panels work best at different light spectrum, I thought that having both types of panels in one installation would be beneficial. But the book tells me that this might not be such a good idea. Or at least in most cases I think.
I have also one of those really old 30+ years old calculators Peter mentioned in one of the videos, powered by some tiny little amorphous cells, and I knew how little light it needs to get the calculator to work. It could work even on a candlelight, so in low light amorphous is irreplaceable as far as I know so far. I thought this is really old and outdated technology but interestingly it still has its own advantages. After all you get low light conditions all over the world.
What really got me thinking though is an article I have read on the net, claiming that motorized sun tracing panels are delivering up to 65% more over the static ones. Probably a little exaggerated, but it makes sense as the panels tend to face the sun constantly.
Here I think that if Tesla Solar Tracker 5 is used with static panels that difference might be much smaller. And if TST5 is used with motorized panels ... I wonder how much more the efficiency would raise. If that is the case, it means it would reduce drastically the count of panels in a system.
I am curious about the opinions of John Bedini, Peter Lindemann or Aaron on that, and if they ran some similar experiments, even if they had to rotate the panels manually.
Tesla Solar Tracker 5 owners could also do that experiments and report.

Something else I was thinking was that John Bedini gave it the name "Solar Tracker" because of the unique features related to light. But I see this charger more like kind of universal. And if one lives in a windy area could couple a small windmill with the charger also, and harvest energy both from a solar and wind.

Just some thoughts I wanted to share.


Regards
Lman

Lman,

The amorphous technology is old, but they keep improving it over time.

With motorized trackers to face the panels to the sun, it would of course give benefits even with amorphous because direct sun is going to be best no matter what.

Even if we're in the dessert and even if we had 365 days of no clouds and bright sun, the low light condition is anytime there is no direct sun. With the amorphous, it can make use of "marginal light" so as soon as the sunlight is available from dawn all the way to dusk, that light can be put to use. It of course won't give as strong of a charge as direct sun, but any charge going to the battery without direct sun is still charge that normally wouldn't be had otherwise.

One benefit of the amorphous panels is that the material the cell is made of can take a lower angle of sun compared to crystalline, which has the crystals such that the panel should be perpendicular to the sun. Cigs have an even lower angle of sun than amorphous I believe according to the charts I saw. Anyway, if you look at most of the mounting techniques for the amorphous, they are almost never mounted on a stand to tilt them towards the sun...whatever the angle of the roof is, that is exactly how the panels will be mounted. And for flat roofs, then just lay the panels flat down because they still perform amazingly well with no tilting angle.

For my panels, I have 100 watt amorphous panels with a 27v open circuit voltage and about a 21 or so loaded voltage. I'm going to test them more and if satisfactory, I'll try to make them available to everyone. They're fairly flexible but I'm going to mount them to sheets of galvanized steel or aluminum sheeting and will have an exposed edge that goes under my shingles and that will be nailed down. Under the panel will be strips sticking out from the shingles about every 2nd to 3rd course and butyl tape will be applied across it to stick to the panel horizontally so besides the top edge under the shingles, it will be mounted to about 3 strips below that. I even want to put the panels on my north facing roof. It gets plenty of direct sun in the summer since the sun practically sets in the north west corner of the sky...not much in winter but it will make use of all the light that is available.

I'm not sure how much those motorized trackers cost, but it might be advantageous to simply put that money into more amorphous panels - would just have to do the numbers.

[Lman]

Hi all,

The free e-book "Solar Secrets" of Peter Lindemann got me really into thinking.
Since crystalline silicon and amorphous panels work best at different light spectrum, I thought that having both types of panels in one installation would be beneficial. But the book tells me that this might not be such a good idea. Or at least in most cases I think.
I have also one of those really old 30+ years old calculators Peter mentioned in one of the videos, powered by some tiny little amorphous cells, and I knew how little light it needs to get the calculator to work. It could work even on a candlelight, so in low light amorphous is irreplaceable as far as I know so far. I thought this is really old and outdated technology but interestingly it still has its own advantages. After all you get low light conditions all over the world.
What really got me thinking though is an article I have read on the net, claiming that motorized sun tracing panels are delivering up to 65% more over the static ones. Probably a little exaggerated, but it makes sense as the panels tend to face the sun constantly.
Here I think that if Tesla Solar Tracker 5 is used with static panels that difference might be much smaller. And if TST5 is used with motorized panels ... I wonder how much more the efficiency would raise. If that is the case, it means it would reduce drastically the count of panels in a system.
I am curious about the opinions of John Bedini, Peter Lindemann or Aaron on that, and if they ran some similar experiments, even if they had to rotate the panels manually.
Tesla Solar Tracker 5 owners could also do that experiments and report.

Something else I was thinking was that John Bedini gave it the name "Solar Tracker" because of the unique features related to light. But I see this charger more like kind of universal. And if one lives in a windy area could couple a small windmill with the charger also, and harvest energy both from a solar and wind.

Just some thoughts I wanted to share.


Regards
Lman

[jelloir]

Xunlight

I have been researching Amorphous panels as part of some PM's with John K and came across this company http://www.xunlight.com

They are based in Toledo Ohio US and from what I can tell the panels are similar to those that UNI-SOLAR used to produce. Has anyone tried these or know what the quality is like?

Here are some random links that I felt may be useful.

http://www.xunlight.com/Documents/XLS-72_144.pdf <- The Vmp is closer to TST5 spec than UNI-SOLAR. They state that they do custom panels... custom branded Amorphous panels spec'd to TST5's anyone
This company would appear to be doing custom panels: http://www.ecodirect.com/Xunlight-Th...nels-s/444.htm

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Xunlight

I have a S10A12 and have inquired about an Australian distributor or shipping to Aussie of the XLS11-72 for testing. If I get hold of one I will let everyone know how it performs. If someone has a 24V TST5 and gets the 144 model let us know how it goes (or anyone wanting to test the 72/12V for that matter).

Thanks

James

[Branch Gordon]

Ah yes, looks like you saw the same info I did, about hooking up a 24V panel to a 12V MPPT controller. Thanks directing me to that answer!

Hi Branch, not sure if you have a 24V or 12V Tracker. If it's a 12V Tracker then the answer is no. I asked a similar question which TomC answered here http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post14595.

Thanks

[jelloir]

I am seeing a lot of these on Ebay in the US, but they are all 24V. Would the tracker 5 allow me to charge a 12V battery with a 24V panel?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peel-Stick-1...item41729eff26

Hi Branch, not sure if you have a 24V or 12V Tracker. If it's a 12V Tracker then the answer is no. I asked a similar question which TomC answered here http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post14595.

Thanks

[Branch Gordon]

I am seeing a lot of these on Ebay in the US, but they are all 24V. Would the tracker 5 allow me to charge a 12V battery with a 24V panel?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peel-Stick-1...item41729eff26

[jelloir]

Response from solaronline.com.au about any alternatives to the UNI-SOLAR panels as large Amorphous panels seem hard to find.

We have trialled various Amorphous modules and have not found anything that comes close to the UNI-SOLAR in performance and quality. There are Chinese look-a-likes that delaminate in less than 12 months....and other rigid modules that suffer from a form of internal rusting. The UNI-SOLAR just work!

[jelloir]

I am in the same boat as John K looking for some decent Amorphous Panels. I contacted solaronline.com.au about those panels as I noticed that UNI-SOLAR filed for bankruptcy in 2012. Response as follows:

UNI-SOLAR are no longer trading. Their engineers are now only doing research and development. As such, the panels have no manufacturer backed warranty. They were designed to outlast a 25 year warranty. We have sold UNI-SOLAR products for over 10 years and have not had any fail to date.

As a consolation, the pricing we are selling these panels for is now less than half what they were when UNI-SOLAR were trading.

I also asked about sources of decent larger Amorphous Panels so will post back if they provide any useful information.

[Tom C]

too bad they are not easy to make...... even if you don't have to grow the silicon, the process is very technical.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8747941_make...olar-cell.html

Tom C

[Aaron Murakami]

Thanks Peter and John for your responses.

I'll keep looking for panels with a higher operating voltage, but Uni-solar seems to be a fairly popular brand and don't make 24v amorphous panels with a higher voltage. I'll also look at 12v panels and an inverter to match.

John, I'm looking at 2 panels in parallel to start with and then adding more as money permits. I have a 24V 80A TST5 I'm planning on using for my off-grid setup.

John K.

Uni-solar used to be the largest manufacturer in the world of flexible solar panels. I believe all the ones you see are old inventory that people are selling and I think they are CIGS and not Amorphous. If so, they are actually a bit better than Amorphous.

They're designed by Stanford Ovshinsky who invented the nickel metal hydride batteries. He wanted to give the world cheap solar and his methods are seriously suppressed. Could mass produce cheap solar panels miles at a time and would cost less than 10 cents per watt to make.

[Retep]

Further Comments

Thanks Peter and John for your responses.

I'll keep looking for panels with a higher operating voltage, but Uni-solar seems to be a fairly popular brand and don't make 24v amorphous panels with a higher voltage. I'll also look at 12v panels and an inverter to match.

John, I'm looking at 2 panels in parallel to start with and then adding more as money permits. I have a 24V 80A TST5 I'm planning on using for my off-grid setup.

John K.

John,

I saw John Bedini's response saying these panels DO work with the Tesla Solar Tracker 5, so that is the final word. My response was based on the specifications you posted. If the panels work, my guess is that the "operating voltage" ratings are quite conservative. If you look at the spec sheets for the 24 volt Tesla Solar Tracker 5s, the Open Circuit Voltage (Voc) rating is 42 volts. Both panels you list have this rating or higher, so maybe that is the better gauge of how well they will work with the Solar Tracker. Choosing between the two, I would pick the first one.

Personally, if I was going to spend a bunch of money and put together a solar power system I wanted to run my house for the next 20 years, I'd buy a few different panels to test and actually measure their performance in full sun and cloudy conditions with the TST5. As I discuss in the Solar Secrets book, all solar panels are not created equal, and finding the ones that produce the most energy in the greatest variation of conditions will make a big difference in how well the solar power system operates throughout the year and during large storms that last for days.

John Bedini's tests have been extensive and thorough. If we follow his lead on this, we should do the same when planning a large installation.

Best regards,
Peter