SG Battery Question_Must a conventionally charged battery be used in the circuit?

[360]

I just wanted to confirm or clear up rumors concerning the Bedini SG energizer.
I heard that the Bedini SG only charges a battery well, if the input battery(or was that output, I don't remember now) is a conventionally charged battery, NOT an SG charged battery.

Is there any truth to that, or can the SG work well using any style of charged batteries, input and/or output?
Please give some insight.

Thanks.

[Tom C]

you cannot use a radiantly charged battery to power the SG you can use a regularly charged battery OR one that has been pulse charged with the cap pulser circuit or comparator circuit. or you can trigger the SG apart from the normal trigger circuit, using a hall sensor or some other means to trigger it.

Tom C

[James Milner]

Tom,
Why can't you use a battery charged by the SG?
We aren't talking about using it simultaneously or even in the few hours post charge.
What is it that I'm not getting? Why technically is it not a good idea?
Thanks
James

[Tom C]

radiant does not like radiant. this has been a long standing rule with bedini tech. you can run loads you can do everything else with the battery except run the primary, unless you charge with the exceptions I listed above. so if you use a comnparator circuit you can swap. just not with the vanilla SG.

Tom C

[nilrehob]

Hi Tom C

By using a hall-sensor to trigger the coils I can swap the primary and secondary batteries?
What difference is it in the two trigger tecniques that makes this possible?


What does a comparator circuit do?

/Hob

[360]

you cannot use a radiantly charged battery to power the SG you can use a regularly charged battery OR one that has been pulse charged with the cap pulser circuit or comparator circuit. or you can trigger the SG apart from the normal trigger circuit, using a hall sensor or some other means to trigger it.

Tom C

Ah, I was afraid of that. Oh well, it's good to know for sure. Thanks for confirming.

I have theory on another way of getting around that issue:
Correct me if I'm wrong but, might a person be able to alternate back & forth between radiant & conventional charging methods?

In other words, say you radiantly charge a battery, then you go use that battery until it's run down, then this time you charge it conventionally, use it till run down.
Now since that battery's last charge was conventional, could it now be used as the primary in the SG?

I guess what I'm getting at is, can a battery successfully be charged via different ways over & over, OR should one particular charging method be assigned to the battery?

Now all that above was pertaining to the primary battery in the SG circuit. I'm assuming that the secondary(battery to be charged) can always be a previously radiantly and/or conventionally charged. In other words, it shouldn't matter at all how the secondary was previously charged, Correct????

[Tom C]

Ah, I was afraid of that. Oh well, it's good to know for sure. Thanks for confirming.

I have theory on another way of getting around that issue:
Correct me if I'm wrong but, might a person be able to alternate back & forth between radiant & conventional charging methods?

In other words, say you radiantly charge a battery, then you go use that battery until it's run down, then this time you charge it conventionally, use it till run down.
Now since that battery's last charge was conventional, could it now be used as the primary in the SG?

I guess what I'm getting at is, can a battery successfully be charged via different ways over & over, OR should one particular charging method be assigned to the battery?

Now all that above was pertaining to the primary battery in the SG circuit. I'm assuming that the secondary(battery to be charged) can always be a previously radiantly and/or conventionally charged. In other words, it shouldn't matter at all how the secondary was previously charged, Correct????

a battery that is consistently charged the radiant way will charge faster and have increased capacity. if you charge a battery radiantly a few times, then go back to standar dc charging you will notice that it does not like it very much, and it will not charge well until it has "reverted" back to a dc force charge. when you dc force charge a dead battery normally you will see the charging meter peg when you first hook up the battery. when you try and return a radiant battery back to a force charge you will see it does not like the current very much at first.

Tom C

[Tom C]

Hi Tom C

By using a hall-sensor to trigger the coils I can swap the primary and secondary batteries?
What difference is it in the two trigger tecniques that makes this possible?


What does a comparator circuit do?

/Hob

you can build a circuit that is not triggered by the induced current in the coil, i.e. the trigger winding using a hall sensor. the comprator circuit is a cap dump circuit that compares the capacitors voltage with the battery voltage and dumps at a certain voltage over the battery voltage.

Tom C

[nilrehob]

OK, I get the comparator function, and I understand how to trigger the transistor invarious ways, but what is it in the choice of trigger source that determines if the battery gets charged radiantly or not? If the goal is to get COP > 1 and the way to get it is to charge the battery radiantly then wouldnt getting rid of radiant charge get rid of COP > 1? I must be missing something, right?

/Hob

[aln]

Thank you Tom for always taking time to answer our newbie questions. I have another one for you. I have revived a couple of dying and mostly dead car batteries with my 3 pole monopole. My question is that if I put them in my vehicles and they receive a dc force charge will they quickly go back to not holding a charge or will they be "healed" for a while and need to go through cycles again? Maybe I need to turn my alternator into a bedini energizer. Al

[Tom C]

Thank you Tom for always taking time to answer our newbie questions. I have another one for you. I have revived a couple of dying and mostly dead car batteries with my 3 pole monopole. My question is that if I put them in my vehicles and they receive a dc force charge will they quickly go back to not holding a charge or will they be "healed" for a while and need to go through cycles again? Maybe I need to turn my alternator into a bedini energizer. Al

The best thing you can do is to cycle them until the capacity no longer goes up. once the capacity has leveled off, put them back into regular service. then get yourself a 2A12 and treat em to a pulse charge once in a while.

Tom C

[Tom C]

OK, I get the comparator function, and I understand how to trigger the transistor invarious ways, but what is it in the choice of trigger source that determines if the battery gets charged radiantly or not? If the goal is to get COP > 1 and the way to get it is to charge the battery radiantly then wouldnt getting rid of radiant charge get rid of COP > 1? I must be missing something, right?

/Hob

Hob,

the point is that Jb has said that during his research one way to be able to swap batteries is to remove the trigger wire from the coil and trigger the transistor another way. I do not have a profound explaination for why this is so, apart from how I see the trigger current in the circuit. so from my perspective get the trigger out of the coil and use some form of cap pulser circuit if you want to swap batteries. The tuv test motor that John built was a mechanical cap pulser unit.

John has his reasons for everything, I dont know them all. I try really hard to grasp some of the advanced scalar concepts, but it is quaternion math and that is not my forte. Radiant is a different animal.

Tom C

[RS_]

Hi all,

let me chip in here,

The Radiant / Negative energy charging comes from the SSG model with the output diode on the transistor collector direct into the battery.
The SG with cap pulser take's the Radiant / Negative energy and fills up a cap with it, and this regages the energy, to positive energy, then pulses the battery with it. and this cap pulser can be triggered several ways, a 555 timer or the comparator, etc, etc....

If you charge a car battery with a SSG model, than it will NOT do good if put back on the car. From then on, you only want to charge this battery with the SSG model charger, and you do not want to cap pulse charge it after that ether. (found this out the hard way and killed several big battery's) SSG charged batterys can Not be swapped to the primary to drive the SSG. you want to use these battery's with a inverter or other Load.......

If you Cap pulse charge a car battery, you Can put it back on the car and it will last a long time.......
Cap pulsed charged battery's Can be swapped to the primary side to Drive the SG or SSG chargers

This energy difference, has nothing to do with how the SG or SSG models are triggered, ether with a extra strand on the coil, or with a Hall sensor and timing wheel, etc, etc......

You can take a SSG model, and modifie it with a FWBR on it's output, and then fill up a cap, and pulse that to the battery, then that battery can be put back on the car......

[Tom C]

Hi all,

let me chip in here,

The Radiant / Negative energy charging comes from the SSG model with the output diode on the transistor collector direct into the battery.
The SG with cap pulser take's the Radiant / Negative energy and fills up a cap with it, and this regages the energy, to positive energy, then pulses the battery with it. and this cap pulser can be triggered several ways, a 555 timer or the comparator, etc, etc....

If you charge a car battery with a SSG model, than it will NOT do good if put back on the car. From then on, you only want to charge this battery with the SSG model charger, and you do not want to cap pulse charge it after that ether. (found this out the hard way and killed several big battery's)

If you Cap pulse charge a car battery, you Can put it back on the car and it will last a long time.......

This energy difference, has nothing to do with how the SG or SSG models are triggered, eather with a extra strand on the coil, or with a Hall sensor and timing wheel, etc, etc......

You can take a SSG model, and modifie it with a FWBR on it's output, and then fill up a cap, and pulse that to the battery, then that battery can be put back on the car......

yes like I said earlier it wont like a standard charge wright away, took my car battery a week before it liked the alternator again. currently I am running a cap pulser on it in the car in conjunction with the standard charging.

Tom C

[nilrehob]

Tom C, RS_,

Thanks for the answers.

My conclusion is that the battery wants the radiant spike to boost its performance and rejuvenate,
but it also wants some current. The cap-pulser will not give the radiant spike but it will give pulses *and* current.
Somewhere in the back of my head I think I've heard JB say that charging with *only* radiant spikes and *no current whatsoever*
(which I believe is hard to tune the device to do) will eventually harm the battery.
So there has to be some current, and the more current the more likely the batteries can be swapped.
It seems to be a tradeoff here between radiant spike and current.

/Hob