SG Battery Question_Must a conventionally charged battery be used in the circuit?

[nilrehob]

I fail to find a picture of a modification to the SSG made by Ossie Callanan that I believe will give both the spike and current.

But its essentially a Tesla Switch without the switching: Two batteries in series charge two batteries in parallel while also driving the coil, here is the current, and then the spike from the coil goes to the two batteries in parallel as well, here is the radiant.
In this way You should get both the radiant spike for rejuvenating and the current necessary for swapping?

/Hob

[hobbyrobotik]

hello all,

let me ask one simple question. How can a radiant charged battery know what kind of load is connected? What if I use a BIG capacitor
in parallel to my SSG primary battery which is able to power my circuit for few seconds after disconnecting from battery? The current from
the battery to the SSG measured is constant DC without any ripple or spike. So what makes the diffrence now to a "normal" load ?

Dieter

[Tom C]

hello all,

let me ask one simple question. How can a radiant charged battery know what kind of load is connected? What if I use a BIG capacitor
in parallel to my SSG primary battery which is able to power my circuit for few seconds after disconnecting from battery? The current from
the battery to the SSG measured is constant DC without any ripple or spike. So what makes the diffrence now to a "normal" load ?

Dieter

its not the battery its the load..... try running the SG with an SG charged battery. tell me if capacity goes up on both until eventually they are both fully charged. then do it with a cap pulser charged battery, tell me what happens.

Tom C

[nilrehob]

I finally found a pic of the circuit I mentioned:


If I'm correct You will get both the radiant spike and current into the secondaries.

/Hob

[James Milner]

yes like I said earlier it wont like a standard charge wright away, took my car battery a week before it liked the alternator again. currently I am running a cap pulser on it in the car in conjunction with the standard charging.

Tom C

Sounds like another great use for the large comparitor when teslagenex starts selling these units! My only concern Tom, is isolating the spike from the rest of the car's sensitive electronics. Tom can you elaborate on how you have achieved this?
This is of particular concern for more recent cars. Replacing engine management components is the fast way to deplete your bank account!!

[nilrehob]

Unfortunately a cannot devote as much time on my energizer as I would like, but I did a preliminary small test with the Ossie MSG setup just now.
The energizer has been running from a power-supply at 12V/2.3A for a week and the secondary batteries 360Ah (half good shape) has been sitting on 14.5V for many days,
so I reconfigured according to the MSG above, set the power supply at 24V and tuned for 1.15A, now the batteries sit at 15.0V.
If this means better charging and/or if the batteries later can be used as primaries, I don't know, but it looks very interesting.

/Hob

[John_Koorn]

Hi /Hob,

I've seen Ossie's MSG posted around various forums over the years, but there has been little results from people that have tried it.

It looks like you are having success with it so far. It's a good circuit that recycles the wasted energy into the parallel batteries. Basically, it's a half Tesla Switch that uses the SG circuit as the load - using the potential difference between the negatives of the series and parallel batteries.

If a rotored Bedini SG is used in this configuration and you add in the mechanical energy from the wheel you are have a COP>1 and have probably increased the capacity of the charge batteries in the process.

However I can't see how the battery banks can be rotated in the MSG setup because you are still using the trigger circuit in the traditional Bedini SG closed loop fashion. You need to isolate the trigger winding (by hall, opto, external trigger etc.) from the load to be able to swap the batteries around.

I think you'll find with the MSG set up is that if you rotate the batteries they will run down over time, but please post the results of your testing so we have some data to prove it.

John K.

[nilrehob]

Hi John K,

I will try using another trigger as well, but not today.
I guess the bifilar is the "problem", is using a standalone trigger-coil on the same wheel OK?

/Hob

[nilrehob]

One possible reason for gain by changing the trigger is that since the coil is bifilar some of the energy in the coil skips the desired output-channel through the secondary battery and takes the way through the trigger winding instead and becomes heat in the trim-resistor? On one of my smaller energizers I put a diode in series with the trigger-winding to avoid this which gave better charging but I haven't been able to do this properly on my 10-coiler yet. All this would of course be avoided by using an "external" trigger. I think maybe the trigger winding is a little currency-thief and that it's all about providing the secondary batteries with enough current and not just radiant spikes? Maybe John B. could put some light on this? :-)

/Hob

[alfinip2000]

hi John K, Hob..
Can you guys elnligmment about separate trigger winding, is there any schematic on this,have any link..i watch over2 again.about separate trigger so it can be swapped,but havent anyluck trying to figurw it out...is it just simple single fillar coil put on the coil as a trigger?TIA..
cheers,
Alfin

[nilrehob]

Hi alfinip2000,

I may be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that the choice of trigger-source would change anything if the trigger-signal stays the same, so my conclusion so far is:
1) the batteries need more current than what the trigger in a bifiliar would allow
2) the bifilar "leaks" current from the power-winding into the trigger-winding and its resistor.
so if you lower the resistor to get more current to the secondary batteries you also get more leakage in the resistor.

This problem would be eliminated with a separate trigger outside the power-coil for two reasons:
1) you can trim the transistor to any current you want (if the new trigger-source allows it)
2) no leakage from power- to trigger-winding-resistor
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My guess is that if the trigger-signal comes from a separate trigger-coil it will need much more windings than when in a bifilar.

/Hob

[nilrehob]

Hi /Hob,

I've seen Ossie's MSG posted around various forums over the years, but there has been little results from people that have tried it.

It looks like you are having success with it so far. It's a good circuit that recycles the wasted energy into the parallel batteries. Basically, it's a half Tesla Switch that uses the SG circuit as the load - using the potential difference between the negatives of the series and parallel batteries.

If a rotored Bedini SG is used in this configuration and you add in the mechanical energy from the wheel you are have a COP>1 and have probably increased the capacity of the charge batteries in the process.

However I can't see how the battery banks can be rotated in the MSG setup because you are still using the trigger circuit in the traditional Bedini SG closed loop fashion. You need to isolate the trigger winding (by hall, opto, external trigger etc.) from the load to be able to swap the batteries around.

I think you'll find with the MSG set up is that if you rotate the batteries they will run down over time, but please post the results of your testing so we have some data to prove it.

John K.

If You have a multi-coiler, lets say a 10-coiler with a master-coil, then the trigger is external to 9 of the coils, right?
So if I'm correct, with the sufficient amount of extra coils using the same trigger-winding in a master-coil, external to the extra coils, You would be able to swap the batteries?

/Hob

[Tom C]

If You have a multi-coiler, lets say a 10-coiler with a master-coil, then the trigger is external to 9 of the coils, right?
So if I'm correct, with the sufficient amount of extra coils using the same trigger-winding in a master-coil, external to the extra coils, You would be able to swap the batteries?

/Hob

no with a 10 coil machine that has an external trigger, all the coils have the same number of wires, all are power strands. if you are converting a 10 coil to external, you just abandon the trigger wire your master coil or turn it into a power strand. on a 10 coil you use 20 magnets on a rotor, this gives you a magnet that will appear half way between coils to trigger another smaller trigger coil. better yet, is a hall switch with its own timing disk.

before you go down this route hob, do you have a single coil machine that is up over the top? until you do concentrate your work on that machine, learn all you can. when you are over the top, then all of your work can instantly be transfered to a multi coil machine.

Tom C

[nilrehob]

no with a 10 coil machine that has an external trigger, all the coils have the same number of wires, all are power strands. if you are converting a 10 coil to external, you just abandon the trigger wire your master coil or turn it into a power strand. on a 10 coil you use 20 magnets on a rotor, this gives you a magnet that will appear half way between coils to trigger another smaller trigger coil. better yet, is a hall switch with its own timing disk.

before you go down this route hob, do you have a single coil machine that is up over the top? until you do concentrate your work on that machine, learn all you can. when you are over the top, then all of your work can instantly be transfered to a multi coil machine.

Tom C

I've built a few machines but got tired of shaky frames and wobbly coils so I ordered a 10-coiler version 2 with 4 strands/coil a year ago, but it was quite delayed and didn't arrive when I had the time to concentrate on it, so now I'm busy with other things but trying to figure it out with my left hand so to speak, anyway, Im running it with 4 coils for the moment, I have 4 bats 90Ah each, currently 2 are charging 2 in MSG style, double trigger/magnet at 1.8A, 6mm gap, I'll swap the bats around a few times and see what happens.

BTW, It would be cool to have a thread for each energizer-kit, to make it easy to compare notes.

/Hob