Heatsink for the transistor as spec'ed in the Bedini Authorized Handbook from Mouser

[longhorn]

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[John_Koorn]

Thanks longhorn,

If the machine is tuned correctly you don't need a heat sink. If the transistor is getting hot enough to need a heatsink it's pushing too much current.

John K.

[longhorn]

Thanks longhorn,

If the machine is tuned correctly you don't need a heat sink. If the transistor is getting hot enough to need a heatsink it's pushing too much current.

John K.

Dear John K

John Bedini used a heat sink on his original SG, the "Bedini SG Complete Beginners Handbook" spec's an aluminum heat sink, but does not instruct at least to the best of my knowledge how to "properly tune" and SG, so maybe you would be kind enough to tell me how you go about "properly tuning" an SG? That way I won't need a transistor heat sink. Thank You.

Sincerely

[John_Koorn]

Dear John K

John Bedini used a heat sink on his original SG, the "Bedini SG Complete Beginners Handbook" spec's an aluminum heat sink, but does not instruct at least to the best of my knowledge how to "properly tune" and SG, so maybe you would be kind enough to tell me how you go about "properly tuning" an SG? That way I won't need a transistor heat sink. Thank You.

Sincerely

Hi longhorn,

I always tune an SG to get the maximum rotor speed for the least amount of draw current. In my experiments I have found that when tuned this way the transistor(s) are only a couple of degrees Celsius above ambient temperature.

John K.

[vallentin]

Potentiometer only, longhorn.
You will probably encounter 2-3 sweetspots. But only for one of them you will find "maximum rotor speed" and "minimum current draw" conditions to be true.
This cannot be done by hocus-pocus or abracadabra.
Only by hand, and only by experimenting with it. By yourself.
When you'll find your sweetspot, remove the potentiometer, measure the value, then replace it with a fixed resistor. Mind the resistor wattage!
As for specific methods provided by John Bedini on how to properly tune your circuit, I must disagree. This information is public knowledge on forums for years. All you need to do is read.
And yes, what John says is true. Transistors should stay cool.

[Tom C]

Dear Vallentin

Yes my dear Vallentin it is true - it must be true - one wish's it to be true, that over the various years and on various forums it has been revealed as the master himself has stated that "transistors should stay cool" in a "properly tuned" SG circuit, but yet one fact remains - they all still use heat sinks in their circuit designs.

On the use of a potentiometer, I agree. But over the years the use of this device has become jumbled. The whole SG circuit and its design have become more at mythological than a simple reality.

Let us here settle once and for all the question on circuit tuning, those who are attentive, as well as astute, paying attention will leave here today without question; moving on to better things and bigger experiments that all could possibly benefit from who read this today, the seasoned experimenter, as well as the beginner.

Vallentine or John K. or some other, I ask:

Where is the proper place in our circuits to place the device we call a potentiometer, all free schematics, and free advice online aside - over the years, let us settle by "peer review" today, for all time, the PROPER way to TUNE an SG circuit for all to see.

Sincerely

ok here we go, this stuff has been around for years on all the previous forums, and so is not a secret to anyone who has been reading this stuff and actually building for any length of time.

1- if you have the Bedini SG book, and build it to the specs in the book you will see that for that circuit with 470 ohm resistors on the base, and a final 12 ohm resistor, the number of magnets noted, puts the machine into "tune" as per John Bedini. the circuit pulls 1 amp. so for that build it is tuned. with all the parameters mentioned above it will be different for each build.

2- since there has always been people building a variety of coil sizes, wire size, length etc, you CANNOT tell everyone where the correct tuning resistance is. there are too many variables, its like asking for dwell and point gap that will work for EVERY car in america since the 1900's. what you can do is tell everyone that you want a minimum current draw for maximum RPM, it is relative to that particular RPM. that means a base resistor of a certain size, say 220 ohms, then a 1K pot in series on the trigger circuit.

3- start with the highest resistance, and note speed and current draw. lower resistance slowly you will notice a linear relationship between current draw and RPM. now there are "sweet spots" or places in the resistance curve where the rpm gains are NON LINEAR... I.E. a 100 ohm decrease does not cause a 10 rpm increase, it causes a 30 RPM increase. this will happen 2 or 3 times at different current draws from the primary.

4- why is this important. because at that point in the resistance curve the transistor, coil, wheel and battery are all in RESONANCE, and the feedback loop is helping the wheel accelerate without energy increase.

5- at each sweet spot you need to run some cycles to see if this is the best compromise of RPM and current draw for the particular battery you are charging.

it really is that simple... you must run your SG off a battery, not a power supply.

Longhorn, would love to see some pics of some of your machines...

Tom C

[Tom C]

oh and concerning heatsinks, its for experimentation purposes. John's 10 coil 12 coil 3 coil 6 coil do not have true heatsinks on them. with that said it is smart to have in case a circuit fails and the transistor begins thermal runaway it might just save the machine, it also tells you it int running right before you blow it up.

Tom

[Tom C]

here is the Sg circuit diagram posted on this forum
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/be...e-diagram.html

Tom C

[longhorn]

ok here we go, this stuff has been around for years on all the previous forums, and so is not a secret to anyone who has been reading this stuff and actually building for any length of time.

1- if you have the Bedini SG book, and build it to the specs in the book you will see that for that circuit with 470 ohm resistors on the base, and a final 12 ohm resistor, the number of magnets noted, puts the machine into "tune" as per John Bedini. the circuit pulls 1 amp. so for that build it is tuned. with all the parameters mentioned above it will be different for each build.

2- since there has always been people building a variety of coil sizes, wire size, length etc, you CANNOT tell everyone where the correct tuning resistance is. there are too many variables, its like asking for dwell and point gap that will work for EVERY car in america since the 1900's. what you can do is tell everyone that you want a minimum current draw for maximum RPM, it is relative to that particular RPM. that means a base resistor of a certain size, say 220 ohms, then a 1K pot in series on the trigger circuit.

3- start with the highest resistance, and note speed and current draw. lower resistance slowly you will notice a linear relationship between current draw and RPM. now there are "sweet spots" or places in the resistance curve where the rpm gains are NON LINEAR... I.E. a 100 ohm decrease does not cause a 10 rpm increase, it causes a 30 RPM increase. this will happen 2 or 3 times at different current draws from the primary.

4- why is this important. because at that point in the resistance curve the transistor, coil, wheel and battery are all in RESONANCE, and the feedback loop is helping the wheel accelerate without energy increase.

5- at each sweet spot you need to run some cycles to see if this is the best compromise of RPM and current draw for the particular battery you are charging.

it really is that simple... you must run your SG off a battery, not a power supply.

Longhorn, would love to see some pics of some of your machines...

Tom C

Dear Tom C

My original intent with this thread was to relay information about a new clip on heat sink for the transistor as spec'ed in the "Complete Beginners Handbook. No insinuation was made or question raised as to whether a heat sink was necessary or not. But the question on tuning the circuit was made in the thread, leaving some question as to how a "properly" tuned SG circuit was made, implying that a transistor heat sink was not needed, which to me clouded the original issue of the information I was trying to relay about the clip-on heat sink unnecessarily.

Look, if more advance builders of the SG want to interject that is fine, but don't create conflicts for newer builders, who are coping with the learning curve of building their first SG, this is unnecessary "hot dogging" and muddies the water, but if this is the intent of the Energy Science Forum so be it. We all will swim together in muddy water. I can sling mud just like the next guy!

Tom, I will send you a picture or two of my first SG build as soon as it is complete. Thank you for your guidance and patience.

Sincerely

[geoffrey sr miller]

Hi Tom

"1- if you have the Bedini SG book, and build it to the specs in the book you will see that for that circuit with 470 ohm resistors on the base, and a final 12 ohm resistor, the number of magnets noted, puts the machine into "tune" as per John Bedini. the circuit pulls 1 amp. so for that build it is tuned. with all the parameters mentioned above it will be different for each build."

The 12 ohm resistor circuit IS NOT IN The NEW SSG BOOK.
But John Has it on the circuit board that is in the kit.

Did John look at this SSGbook before it went to print?

Is John B. going to answered the posts for people any more?









Have fun.


Geoffrey

[John_Koorn]

longhorn, no one here is "hot-dogging" or muddying the waters. We are simply trying to help people successfully build the machine and get good results. If by explaining the method of tuning like you asked has somehow confused you, then I cannot help that. The official circuit diagram, posted by the inventor of the machine on the day the ESF was started clearly shows where the potentiometer is located in the circuit.

Geoffrey, what Tom C was trying to convey is that John's original SG, which is the focus of the Bedini SG book, did not require an additional master base resistor to tune it. This is clearly seen in the screen shots of the book you posted (where you infringed copyright). What we found in John's shop when we built the first kit was that without the 12 ohm resistor as the master base resistor the machine drew too much current and the resistors were getting warm. As Tom said, every machine is different and the kit machine required the 12 ohm resistor to tune it correctly.

As Tom also stated, the heat sink is there as a safety measure to protect the devices until the machine is tuned. No one wants to blow 7 matched transistors unnecessarily.

Now, you know John read the SG book before it went to print. If you want more proof other than the book actually stating that he did, I watched him proof read it and then he gave it to me to proof read as well. He wanted to be sure that it was correct. I also recall when Peter came to the shop and asked him if it was OK and if he wanted any changes made.

I know that John B. reads every post on this forum and making comments like that is not the way you go about trying to get him to answer posts. If you want him to answer your posts, build like he says, post pictures of your machine and your results and then come up with questions that give him an incentive to answer.

John K.

[Tom C]

Dear Tom C

My original intent with this thread was to relay information about a new clip on heat sink for the transistor as spec'ed in the "Complete Beginners Handbook. No insinuation was made or question raised as to whether a heat sink was necessary or not. But the question on tuning the circuit was made in the thread, leaving some question as to how a "properly" tuned SG circuit was made, implying that a transistor heat sink was not needed, which to me clouded the original issue of the information I was trying to relay about the clip-on heat sink unnecessarily.

Look, if more advance builders of the SG want to interject that is fine, but don't create conflicts for newer builders, who are coping with the learning curve of building their first SG, this is unnecessary "hot dogging" and muddies the water, but if this is the intent of the Energy Science Forum so be it. We all will swim together in muddy water. I can sling mud just like the next guy!

Tom, I will send you a picture or two of my first SG build as soon as it is complete. Thank you for your guidance and patience.

Sincerely

What part of my answer was muddying the waters? your question:

"Let us here settle once and for all the question on circuit tuning, those who are attentive, as well as astute, paying attention will leave here today without question; moving on to better things and bigger experiments that all could possibly benefit from who read this today, the seasoned experimenter, as well as the beginner"


I am completely without remedy here, I dont know what you want, this is the second time you have stated that I was not responding correctly in reference to a question you have asked...... "Let us here settle once and for all the question on circuit tuning" I thought you wanted an answer on tuning irrespective of the thread title.... I will stop answering you now as it seems I cant read your questions correctly.....



I read your PM..........

Tom C

[Tom C]

Hi Tom

"1- if you have the Bedini SG book, and build it to the specs in the book you will see that for that circuit with 470 ohm resistors on the base, and a final 12 ohm resistor, the number of magnets noted, puts the machine into "tune" as per John Bedini. the circuit pulls 1 amp. so for that build it is tuned. with all the parameters mentioned above it will be different for each build."

The 12 ohm resistor circuit IS NOT IN The NEW SSG BOOK.
But John Has it on the circuit board that is in the kit.

Did John look at this SSGbook before it went to print?

Is John B. going to answered the posts for people any more?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1480[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1481[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1482[/ATTACH]



Have fun.


Geoffrey

Thanks John K for the answer, simply put if your trannies are warm you need to increase your base resistance....... I put that resistor on that particular machine to get it tuned. John has been answering questions, the same old questions for years, I do not expect him to answer most queastions posted to him.

Tom C

[longhorn]

What part of my answer was muddying the waters? your question:

"Let us here settle once and for all the question on circuit tuning, those who are attentive, as well as astute, paying attention will leave here today without question; moving on to better things and bigger experiments that all could possibly benefit from who read this today, the seasoned experimenter, as well as the beginner"


I am completely without remedy here, I dont know what you want, this is the second time you have stated that I was not responding correctly in reference to a question you have asked...... "Let us here settle once and for all the question on circuit tuning" I thought you wanted an answer on tuning irrespective of the thread title.... I will stop answering you now as it seems I cant read your questions correctly.....



I read your PM..........

Tom C

Tom C

You took my post out of context, hey maybe its time for a beer or something.

[geoffrey sr miller]

Hi John K.

NEW People reading the SSG book probably should know about the 12 ohm res. for tuning. That is all
I was trying to do.





John B. has always answered my posts, again I was thinking of the new people.

I know John has read the book, the 12 ohm res. should be touch upon in the book for tuning.

I have built a lot of the SSG's and I have no questions about them, you can see a running SSG video at
my website Energy Bat

I Thought the new people would benefit from the info.


Thanks a have a great day.


Geoffrey

longhorn, no one here is "hot-dogging" or muddying the waters. We are simply trying to help people successfully build the machine and get good results. If by explaining the method of tuning like you asked has somehow confused you, then I cannot help that. The official circuit diagram, posted by the inventor of the machine on the day the ESF was started clearly shows where the potentiometer is located in the circuit.

Geoffrey, what Tom C was trying to convey is that John's original SG, which is the focus of the Bedini SG book, did not require an additional master base resistor to tune it. This is clearly seen in the screen shots of the book you posted (where you infringed copyright). What we found in John's shop when we built the first kit was that without the 12 ohm resistor as the master base resistor the machine drew too much current and the resistors were getting warm. As Tom said, every machine is different and the kit machine required the 12 ohm resistor to tune it correctly.

As Tom also stated, the heat sink is there as a safety measure to protect the devices until the machine is tuned. No one wants to blow 7 matched transistors unnecessarily.

Now, you know John read the SG book before it went to print. If you want more proof other than the book actually stating that he did, I watched him proof read it and then he gave it to me to proof read as well. He wanted to be sure that it was correct. I also recall when Peter came to the shop and asked him if it was OK and if he wanted any changes made.

I know that John B. reads every post on this forum and making comments like that is not the way you go about trying to get him to answer posts. If you want him to answer your posts, build like he says, post pictures of your machine and your results and then come up with questions that give him an incentive to answer.

John K.