Why charge the battery over the coil instead of over the transistor

[knagtegl]

I have been playing with a large number of configurations and setups with simple SS SSG circuits
the last few days.

One thing I found is that you can get the charge from many places in the circuit like over the trigger coil
instead of the main coil.

I also wondered that if the neon is over the transistor, why isn't the battery over the transistor and so I tried.

To my surprise it seemed to charge even a llittle better than over the coil so it looks like the radiant rather
go's directly to the ground of the circuit instead of making a loop back into the other side of the coil.

I tought what if I connect two batteries on the output diode, one conventional to the plus and one from the diode to the ground.

Guess wich one was charging and wich one wasn't.

The one to ground was!

All three batteries in the circuit where the same type.




Karel

[Nofear]

Hi Karel,
It seems to me that your schematic looks like you've combined two modes of charging ....at the same time.
There are few ways you can hook up your battery. One where it collects radiant impulses and one where it is being charged with good old amperic current. But I never seen it done simultaneously
Good experimenting.
NoFear!

[acad14n]

Isn't this the neg to neg mod? Be careful not to burn out the primary coil with DC from primary battery.

[John_Koorn]

I have been playing with a large number of configurations and setups with simple SS SSG circuits
the last few days.

One thing I found is that you can get the charge from many places in the circuit like over the trigger coil
instead of the main coil.

I also wondered that if the neon is over the transistor, why isn't the battery over the transistor and so I tried.

To my surprise it seemed to charge even a llittle better than over the coil so it looks like the radiant rather
go's directly to the ground of the circuit instead of making a loop back into the other side of the coil.

I tought what if I connect two batteries on the output diode, one conventional to the plus and one from the diode to the ground.

Guess wich one was charging and wich one wasn't.

The one to ground was!

All three batteries in the circuit where the same type.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3109[/ATTACH]


Karel

John K.

[Faraday88]

There you are...! that's the OPEN LOOP or what JB calls it as the Generator mode, the other mode (accross the positive line) is the CLOSED LOOP.now you understand what is meant by the SIMULTANEOUS PRESENCE OF THE CLOSED AND OPEN PATHS...!!!!Next question can any body answer as to why this mode is termed as the GENERATOR MODE!!!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Take a closer look pal!!! it is where the Impedance is gauged between the two Dipoles..(Batteries)..when Impedances match it is no more like the usual CONDUCTION ELECTRIC CURRENT..., It is more VOLTAGE like.
Yes, what you say does happen if there is impedance mismatch between the two Batteries (source and receive), Under tunned yes it does what you say.. Over tunned its ok with the power coil..
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

If you study this configuration a step further and change the Impedance elements (Capacitor, Resistor, Battery, Inductor )at these places it will answer your Trigger Circuit
need in the rotory machines..
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[knagtegl]

I just looked at the schematic and saw I made a mistake, there should be an extra diode (it was in my test, just did not draw it right).
The way it is now with one diode you would put 24 volt on the battery that is over the transistor.

Just to be sure I did try it again and even if I switch the two batteries it is still charging the one that has the negative to ground better and much less charging is going to the other battery.


Of course you should be carefull to not have a higher voltage on the primary than the secondary!

This is the exact circuit:




Karel

[urcoffeetastestoasty]

This is good stuff!
Are you sure its coil to ground or is it because the radiant is in series with the run battery.
JP

[Faraday88]

Hi Karel,

Your 'accidental Circuit' is also correct, you need not splitt the diode into two different ones.(on the contrary you did the correct splitting of one diode into two and not TWO of each!!!!)
secondly, i'm not quite clear on why would you have the battery over the Transistor rated at 24V, Actually it seems appropriate to have your drive battery(primary)to
be rated at 24V. (Recall TESLA SWITCH) Does that tell you some thing now....?again having done so, you need to increase the Coil Inductance or else you will end up frying the diode.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[knagtegl]

Faraday88,

You can do with one diode but then you need to put a load like a lamp or so between the diode and the batery over the transistor.
That way you would not direct boil the battery.

Have not tested that, but without I did and you get smoke because the primary and the battery over the coil are in series against the
battery over the transistor.

Karel

[bigmotherwhale]

Very interesting, did you measure the input battery voltage and current? it seems there are two paths for the inductive collapse to flow one of them is opposing (discharging) the input battery, you will be adding the radiant spike to the voltage of the battery this may be a good or bad i don't know, the other would be through the trigger winding, do you have a reverse blocking diode on the transistor? this could allow some of the current to flow into the charge battery from the driving and trigger coil in series. Could you try adding a diode across the transistor and let me know what it does?

[knagtegl]

I found an even better way to charge the battery I tried first the standard generator coil with a FWBR and charged my battery. I than connected it the second way (in series with the primary) this way you add a 12 volt to the charge signal. I kept input current the same and charging was better.

Then I went back to first again and charging was less.

It's a sort of tesla switch combination. This way you can make use of the BEMF and the spike so you don't
need a capacitor to make use of the reversed 80 percent BEMF signal.
It's just my way of looking at it but it seems to work.




Karel

[bigmotherwhale]

I found an even better way to charge the battery I tried first the standard generator coil with a FWBR and charged my battery. I than connected it the second way (in series with the primary) this way you add a 12 volt to the charge signal. I kept input current the same and charging was better.

Then I went back to first again and charging was less.

It's a sort of tesla switch combination. This way you can make use of the BEMF and the spike so you don't
need a capacitor to make use of the reversed 80 percent BEMF signal.
It's just my way of looking at it but it seems to work.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3112[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]3113[/ATTACH]


Karel

Have you tested how long the input battery lasts? putting a meter on it wont measure the reverse potential spike across the battery, unless you have a scope, im not sure what reverse pulsing a battery with a radiant spike will do to it, it could discharge it, damage it, or it might not do anything,
if you replaced the battery with a PSU there will be no negative effects i can foresee, this circuit could be useful for efficiently charging batteries from the mains.

[knagtegl]

I made a YT film of it to show what I mean so you can make your own judgement.
I only found out about this today so I don't know how the batteries will act on the
long term but feel free to test it for yourself.

Just want to share my ideas!

Karel

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbltEt3npMg