Experimental Motor/Generator Build

[Volty]

Ward, You have our attention for the need to switch off fast. The reason being the faster the magnetic field collapses the more energy is collected. We were more concerned about all of the coils switching at the exactly the same time than switching off fast.

***(For ensuring all switching at same time, use single Trigger Wire from one coil only as Tom advised me, and move your other Energizer Coils CW or CCW for maximum RPM;s, one extra Coil to Trigger Coil at a time to find the places for your coils, advice which I am proposing)***


I think a mech. rotor switch will be the fastest turn off method and we will now look into it. That brings up a question. The reason that neos are told not to be used is because they affect the sense coil adversely by flooding the coils and slowing the switching down. If we go to a rotor switch can we then use very strong neos for more torque as that is what we are after most. If that is true then thanks much for your input! I see neos used on the zero force, ferris wheel and window motor.


***(I just saw this http://www.energyscienceforum.com/at...achmentid=3738 and am wanting to try it. I have used a Reed Swict, and did not like. This schematic linked Bryan uses Two Hall's for allowing changing trigger pulse width. Patrick / MinOily showed the Hall Effect triggering and separated air-core trigger coil for adjustable timing, in context of his Coil Shorting videos I first linked here. I bough two Hall's and parts and will try soon.
+
I tested extensively the Officially Rx's C8s on a 26" Bike Wheel Vs. the Neos shown in these Pics I show below, and comment on with the pic's.
I found this is NOT "Necessarily" true, and that "These" particular Counter-sunk Neo's are of correct strength for PERFECT SG operation. Absolutely zero difference between Cap Dump Charging dump frequency no matter if C8's + 26" Bike Wheel or either of "These" rectangular and "These" rounded counter-sunk Neo's, on "This 4" Big-5 Razor SCooter Wheel ! 2 for $18US.
Samey same without using Cap Dump and just charging batteries. I have done this for 10 months going back n forth. I have zero use for the BIG wheel until I have enough coils and correct electronics to surround it with. Some of JB's 10-Coiler coils may really be generator coils, and may be using the Trani's to short those coils at 90 degrees and 270 degrees, I am not certain and no one is coming forth here so far to answer such things. I have focused on switching because the Tesla Switch showed me how bad switching the Beginner's way really is. Do you or your group members know how it is set up to make it charge both batteries???)***

We get drive parts locally at Brown Bearing, and McGuire bearing. You may also try McMaster Car, Grainger, and MSC.
The MDF was cheap, easy to get and machine. We are going to coat all the MDF parts with epoxy resin. For any kind of production plastic or aluminum will be used.
The potential between sky and earth is 300 volts per meter.
BMW: I agree that BEMF or CEMF is different from the energy from a collapsing magnetic field around a coil. That is what we are dealing with here.


***(Maybe you mean what is different is the over-shoot seen on fast square waves at rise and fall, which is there even when there is no coil and only wire? I am not sure. Steven Marks mentions that in context of how and why Vacuum Tubes do not show any over-shoot at rise or fall-times with same square waves, yet if they drive a solenoid coil, there will still be a current reversal BEMF pulse because the magnetic field is now contracting Vs. expanding? I always assumed that a solenoid col just concentrated the inductance there even i straight wire.)***

Ward thanks for all your references and ideas, so far you are the only one on these boards that I know of who thinks the way we do The goal is to power houses not duplicate toys over and over and think you are accomplishing something wonderful.
I think if you click on my name it will take you to my page where all the photos are.

Update" I have been thinking about the mechanical switching and really like the idea. I would love to turn the coils on attraction mode when the leading edge of the magnets are tangent to the coil cores and then turn them off instantly when they are directly over the cores. We can then wind our coils as super electro magnets for incredible mechanical force. We have a 1 inch dia. shaft we are going to use.

If we wrap our coils with electrical steel will that have any advantages? We have some on hand. Would black sand cores be better than welding rods?
thanks,

***(Well thank you too RadiantEnergy, for communicating and sharing so we can help each other here. I really do not think seniors who have it OU can safely say so, else be mobbed.

Tangent maybe on a skateboard wheel only. Magnet spacing really matters much. 3-4 apart for C8's need's adjust to 4 to 5 widths apart, no matter if rectangular or round, for "These" magnets in pics here and linked below.

Hmmm. I have heard you focusing on high-torque and super-strong attraction with the steel laminate you mention, but JB rolls his eyes when he hears this. He always keeps saying, "It is an Energizer, not a motor". Well I agree it really is and is also both things, but low-torque for sure.

Why not use that same shaft to try some Regenerative Acceleration and coil-shorting methods, so you / we will not require that high tongue you are wanting to drive Samey same old Off-The-Shelf Generator with? Study this one I linked before in this thread, because it is compelling enough to try, and not so hard once you have spinning shaft, maybe belted up in RPM's for a better speed Generating shaft Vs. typical SSG RPM's, even if Regenerative Accel' types used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVFXSZzUNmE Calculation of the Regenerative Acceleration Generator Delayed Lenz Effect
BTW, N-S-N-S makes wheel spin 2X RPM's. Mr.A.Wangus says that on youtube anyway. N-S-N-S not useful or advised for SG Energizer Driving Coils, but makes much sense for Solenoid shorting techniques which Patrick / MinOily & Bolt show on the Cool Joule channel. N-S-N-S required for the Ed Leedskanlin U-Core w CCW & CW shorted two-per FWBridge.

I like your thinking out loud so we can help each other. I am no expert, just newerNewb than most here, with info gathered over the years. Hands on else no progress is a hard lesson. I must force myself after work to produce with my hands instead of watching about it with my eyes, and now typing about it with my fingers, instead of doing. I am not going to solder up all the Trani's for the 4-Coiler in-progress in these pics here until I know how is JB;s 10-Coiler really and truly wired. All Energizer Coils? Some Generator Coils, or even a couple of Regular Solenoid Coils for some of the Torque you like? If your group can point to links here revealing these answers, please do link me :-) )***

Links for Magnets and the BEST damn DVM Controlled Relay $18 can buy below here.
The lamp lead from mine goes to power strip on floor, where I have other power strips plugged into that one, each with 12VDC Switching Wall Wart Power Supplies. I use P6 Mode for Stop on Hi-Threshold. It has Stop on Low Voltage Mode P3 for discharging, loping timed cycles, and I love it! Saves me when I fall asleep charging Alkaline or LiPoly types.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281295764338...84.m1497.l2649 12VDC 2A DC Power Pack.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141129615927...84.m1497.l2649 Round Counter-sunk South Facing Magnets (Double stack at 4 places around scooter wheel. Single stacked does NOT work, even if flush mounted. Rounded per SAME performance and so they are kind to forgetting fingers).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400593254030...84.m1497.l2649 Over-voltage shut off and timer shut-off.


Addendum - Comment on Pic with Scooter Wheel and Rectangular double-stacked Neos that work! Comment says Patrick shows both Rectangular and Round make SAME shaped bundle of Magnetic lines of force.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXuhoRlMKns Magnetic Currents a method to visualize and Regauge

Until Later, from your friend Ward, who loves the Lord! :-)

[Radiantnrg]

Ward, Where did you get your hall sensors and what was wrong with the reed switch?

To clarify did you say the cap discharge method did not work any better than without it? If so what circuit was it? We were thinking of using a dual zener method to control both low and high cap voltages.

We don't know anything about the Tesla switch.

You said JB rolls his eyes at the mention of torque but in zero force "motor" and window "motor" vids he boasts about their high torque. When I was at the 2010 meeting he really boasted about the Ferris wheels torque. I asked Tom to clarify about torque in another thread and he completely stone walled and evaded the issue. When everyone says the SG has no torque what versions are they referring too? How many coils, what diameter of rotor, what switching method, how are the coils wound, what running mode, how close are the coils spaced, what magnets? Who has made a version like what we are doing now? JB was threatened and can't talk about certain things. I believe potential torque is one of them as both Tom and JB act in similar fashions now when it is mentioned.

The conventional generator is only temporary until we design our own low drag version.

Yes we know how the 10 coil machine is wired. It's explained on the video made in 2006 - energy from the vacuum. One coil has a trigger coil in it that controls all of the others. I don't know if that coil has 7 or 8 power wires. The other 9 coils all have 8 power wires.

We are also trying to focus on building and just sharing the details as we progress and ask questions for advise when we need it. If no one is powering their house, then why read any of their posts?

A fellow believer.

[Volty]

Ward, Where did you get your hall sensors and what was wrong with the reed switch?

To clarify did you say the cap discharge method did not work any better than without it?

***(
SS421H
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...Kw0iJA5rE35A==
4N25A(SHORT,F)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...guHXIKE%3d
I chose these because I saw someone using them, Jean-Louis Naudin maybe, idk.

I did not find the Op-Amp Cap Dump much faster than raining many pulses down into the battery. De-sulfation 'seems' NOT effective, probably from slow-turn-off even of the Cap Dump, but charging about same so close I cannot tell.

Abruptness for Cap Dump I am proposing, is not a better BEMF thing, but being as abrupt as possible with both rise and fall-times, to perturb the space around the coils and battery plates for the broken symmetry. Floyd Sweet's VTA is analogized by IMHOTEP on youtube to a water ram lift system from 1800's. Abrupt fall-times matters too, there at least, and probably in Cap Dump where there is no coil involved. Milks the inertia of what is slammed off maybe.

For small 5 to 7Ah batteries, I found it needed smaller Capacitors than 15,000uF at times, else charging takes too long, and dumping, while incoming pulses wasted. So I found selectable 741 input Cap's on 741 Op-Amp allowed easier adaptation to various sized batteries dump-frequency, making the dump take longer or shorter time "On-the-fly" really helps. Dump Speed Cap selection I also change depending on how many SS SSG's I gang together, all charging the same battery as a single rotored Beginner's Handbook SG. I switch between dump-speed Cap's of 4.7, 10, 33, 47, and 100uF slowest.

I switched between 26" wheel with C8's and Neo Scooter wheel until more coils makes it practical. edit***

If so what circuit was it? We were thinking of using a dual zener method to control both low and high cap voltages.


***(Please use this because it is simply the best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87E9lSNDEI Bedini Comparator Circuit - Modified for 12V and using SSR instead of mosfets (SSR used like this is garbage, just use the schematic).

I tried SSR instead of the H11D1-BD243-IRFP250's shown and no good. The particular "Used-salvage" Kodak SSR I used is no good for Off/On cycling at several times per second. Acts like a FET without a Gate to Source shunt resistor to bleed of capacitance that makes them stick on.
Sticking On means harming your Electrolytic cap's and you will hear them cracking inside with dielectric discharge to the plates. Soon they will bulge and turn resistive and start leaking and sapping your performance. So please use only the 741 Op-Amp Cap Dump. I want to modify this to turn on opto upon High threshold voltage Vs. Low Threshold voltage .
That way can use for FILLING Cap's safely from other BIG Cap Banks (or batteries), as switching power supplies do. You need this for live power generation, so let's collaborate on this idea if you agree about the need. If you ever want to use Super Capacitors like I want to, you must protect from over-charge which kills them dead I am hearing. They are fragile.

(the IRFP250's are in parallel for 43mOhms Vs. 86mOhms, and Ismael Aviso describes using many IRF820's in parallel for only a few mOhms total, which his system requires somehow.

)***


We don't know anything about the Tesla switch.

***(The timing required for Tesla Switch at JB's IceHouse.net site is same SG3524 PWM as shown in SG Beginners Handbook page 109, Figure 2, to be used with Figure 1 'full-cap-dump'.

(now you can eBay SG3525 PWM's for $2.27US, and you will never want to bother with any 555 or 556 timer ever again I promise. This PWM stomps all over 555 w. 555 PWM using second 555)

Is in Method of Charging patent in the appendix. A whole DIFFERENT radiant charging scheme using center tapped coil and ping-pong alternating driving of each end. Ismael Aviso uses this circuit and says it is his. JB's patent says otherwise.)***


You said JB rolls his eyes at the mention of torque but in zero force "motor" and window "motor" vids he boasts about their high torque. When I was at the 2010 meeting he really boasted about the Ferris wheels torque. I asked Tom to clarify about torque in another thread and he completely stone walled and evaded the issue. When everyone says the SG has no torque what versions are they referring too? How many coils, what diameter of rotor, what switching method, how are the coils wound, what running mode, how close are the coils spaced, what magnets? Who has made a version like what we are doing now? JB was threatened and can't talk about certain things. I believe potential torque is one of them as both Tom and JB act in similar fashions now when it is mentioned.

***(I paraphrased JB's eyes rolling when people talk about wanting torque with the SG Monopole Energizer. He is emphatic it is really an energizer, not intended to motor other stuff. 10-Coiler may have 10X torque, Idk. I must learn the 10-Coiler schematic you mention you see in Energy from the Vacuum vid Part 6, so I can believe this slow slow switching off can really charge both batteries.

BTW - I use 12VDC 1 or 2A Wall Warts Power Supplies, several for ganged chargers, per they cannot share this power from one supply, not even with a FWBR to separate them. Units come on and tune with +DC Power lead switched Off and I cannot understand why and gave up trying to understand. IF you want to try Wall Warts, since you are not yet charging both batteries as I am not, then this is the way to go. There is a reason JB uses one battery to another, and it is to let both charge, and to avoid accusers saying his devices affect house electric meters. I say they do not, not do so here, where my electric meter is ~ 75 yards away in these apartments here.)***

The conventional generator is only temporary until we design our own low drag version.

Yes we know how the 10 coil machine is wired. It's explained on the video made in 2006 - energy from the vacuum. One coil has a trigger coil in it that controls all of the others. I don't know if that coil has 7 or 8 power wires. The other 9 coils all have 8 power wires.

We are also trying to focus on building and just sharing the details as we progress and ask questions for advise when we need it. If no one is powering their house, then why read any of their posts?

A fellow believer.

Until next time, your friend Ward, who loves the Lord.

PS - Do not forget why Moses was not allowed to enter the land of milk and honey, and Joshua had to take over for him. He missed an opportunity to honor God as holy before the congregation. So I do it everywhere per I do not care for formal Sunday church 'presentations'. I get more from CSN in an hour than a year of Sundays, so I sleep in and go Monday nights ;-)

Malachi 2:1-3
1“And now, you priests, this warning is for you. 2If you do not listen, and if you do not resolve to honor my name,” says the Lord Almighty, “I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me.

[Volty]

Oh ya, Reed switch works, but hard to trim pulse width. Cool Joule shows his using magnets to fight the closing slightly so the open-back up faster. The Quanta Charger guy on youtube is using two Reed Switches. I bet he is using them low-voltage trigger for trani to drive another trani with so no arching and pitting at those contacts.

[Tom C]

"You said JB rolls his eyes at the mention of torque but in zero force "motor" and window "motor" vids he boasts about their high torque. When I was at the 2010 meeting he really boasted about the Ferris wheels torque. I asked Tom to clarify about torque in another thread and he completely stone walled and evaded the issue. When everyone says the SG has no torque what versions are they referring too? How many coils, what diameter of rotor, what switching method, how are the coils wound, what running mode, how close are the coils spaced, what magnets? Who has made a version like what we are doing now? JB was threatened and can't talk about certain things. I believe potential torque is one of them as both Tom and JB act in similar fashions now when it is mentioned."

I am not sure how many times I have to say this.... the monopole is NOT a Torque motor, in its Vanilla presentation. I do not appreciate you saying things that are blatantly false. for some reason you equate the Ferris wheel with the SG, its not the SAME !!!!!!!!!! coils are different circuit is different. the window motor is an excellent prime mover, I have said so for years. and the ferris wheel has tons of torque over 40 lbs on John's big wheel. you will not get the same torque from a monopole even if you build it 10 feet tall!!

you can build and do whatever you want. there is nothing to hide, I am not sure how many SG variants you have built. I have a dozen or so under my belt. the common feature of the SG circuit is that the rotor is just a SWITCH!!! you load it down it slows down. it is about manipulating the bloch wall in the coil. you can put air core generators on it or cored one if you like. you need to pull it off into a cap then to a load.


you said I evaded the issue, I did not, simply a fat lie! ask it again HERE AND NOW!!! you will get straight answer from me. stop confusing people with your mixing of technology. its simple- you want torque don't do it with the vanilla SG. you want to change the coils, drive it with a different circuit, change the magnet style spacing and width, its not an SG....

FOR EVERYONE.... A vaniila SG is a lousy prime mover. the zero force, window motor and ferris wheel all have more torque. for the ferris wheel you need to build it big!! for the window motor you need a rotor balanced to 10000 rpm and then it needs to run under load at 7000 rpm. the zero force motor has yet to be scaled up.

Tom C

[Allen R.]

False accusations, admittance of disobedience , scripture out of context....... This is getting really bad.

[Volty]

Hey Allen with two L's,

Stop sensationalizing a reaction to a non-malicious comment from the fray of comm memories. It is not "Really bad". We have all done this. Are you perfect?

I have mistakenly quoted, mixing who said what, and have apologized. I spoke with RadiantNrg before this reply came from Tom and we agreed the issue with missed answers we are still wanting is that we tend to ask too many questions in a single breath. We ask questions not clearly phrased. We ask questions here and there in many places and at many times, and impossible to keep it all 100 percent correct. Also the questions we ask as newb's have been asked and answered again and again for decades.

It is perhaps easy to miss a question, when you have been asked that question a million times. It is surely easier to miss an answer when you have asked many questions at once.

[Radiantnrg]

Ward, A co-inventor and I just watched several of the Angus vids you recomended. In one video he shows a one coil version with 2 rotors like our 20 coil build and he shows the exact concept we came up with for a low drag generator. It's better than low drag, it speeds up under load!!!!!!!!!! Can't thank you enough Ward, great team work and focus. I will update this post with video links soon. And I am going to update the CAD model for the new generator.

If you search u-tube for Angus wheel affect, and Angus wheel update those vids by billy show what our generator will be like.
If you do a search for bedini energizer utilizing both coil poles you will see a one coil version by mr angus of what our motor works

We had no idea these were already made but they show proof of concept of what we are building.

Since we have only a 1 month deadline to have a prototype ready to demo I may not post any more here until this build is done. I will then show the results and that will be it for this thread as we intend to move to limited production. We have high ethics and will not spam this site, we will have to move on.

[Volty]

Hi RadiantNrg-AM,

This one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXyDxJQGCas Free Energy Project - U Core Demonstration
I am so happy you are so happy. I love seeing excitement. Makes me feel alive, especially when it is in me.

M.A.W. says in another dual hubcap rotor video or similar vid, that N-S-N-S makes rotor go way fast. That makes magnet spacing needs 1/2 that of all North facing to normalize it, but hey for your generator, the 2X RPM's may be what you want. Here is the Eagle Bike Engines Belt Pulley that twist locks onto spokes that we spoke about. http://bikeengines.com/pictures/ This will get the RPM's where Mr. A.W. is saying these core must be to get the best acceleration.


I was writing you about an idea of using soft Iron Building Wire for long cores. This wire was once used for Tar Paper support over studs to be stucco'd, dirt cheap but hard to keep straight until through spool. My idea is to put generator coil close at one end with long soft iron wires rustoleum sprayed for the very long core that shall be bent back and aimed back towards rotor's adjacent magnet. That way no additional space need be made between coils. More like a lower case 'n' core instead of U-Core. (BTW - this cheap soft Iron Builders wire seems an easy way to make high and low permeable flux paths for the BiTT also.)
Alternately, maybe put whole coil far from rotor and bring long bendable U-core Iron wires close together at usual rotor edge tangent points.
My wonder is: For a One-Rotor motor-generator, is N-S-N-S going to change the energizer coil reversing reaction, in context of maybe peak of BEMF is not really equally spaced between magnets. Mr. A.W. mention no issue, excep "Way fast wheel this way". The desire for me is One Rotor for Motor and for Generator both, that can work an Ed Leedskanlin U-Core. This because I am not ready to make a dual rotor yet as you are doing.

Again, I am very space constrained and thrilled to know someone who can try this right now. I am now wondering if an electromagnet (maybe air-core even) can replace the N-S-N-S Magnet rotor in Ed's Secret schematic "Here" - See pic).


Thanes method here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVFXSZzUNmE Calculation of the Regenerative Acceleration Generator Delayed Lenz Effect
is going to a require a magnet passing the coil every 3.3 to 5.6mS with the coils he proposes. Too tired to calculate those RPM ranges for 20 magnets, but I wonder is he using all N-Facing or not. Idk, yet.

Until next time Your friend Ward, who loves the Lord ! :-)

[Radiantnrg]

I just added a CAD model of our zero drag generator to my album. Due to its size I am leaning towards turning the whole machine horizontal with the generator on the bottom. The motor could then be perfectly round with all of the circuits on the out side surface right next to the coil ends. A third rotor just like the 2 motor rotors but smaller in diameter and with less magnets would be used in the generator. If you watch the videos I am listing you will understand the configuration. This is my last post in this thread until the build is done.

For our motor section and how it works watch mragnuswagnus bedini energizer using both poles of the coil
For our generator section and how it works watch mranguswagnus videos plus these by mr2tuff2 1. the agnus affect 2. the agnus wheel update 2 re jay braun 3. agnus wheel update 4. magnetic synchronicity using both sides of the magnet

I will be back soon with a finished working machine update.

[Radiantnrg]

We have a test stand built for testing drive coils and U-core coils at the same time. The rotor is 24 inches in diameter, and has 24 pairs of magnets glued back to back in monopole fashion. All north poles on on side and south on the other. The rotor weighs 20 pounds. We have it spinning very smooth, and quiet at approx. 250 rpm with just one coil wound to produce high torque. Only one transistor is on the drive coil. Timing is by a reed switch and 24 tiny neo. switching magnets. The draw on this coil is between 200 and 300 Milli-amps.

Our U-cores will be made out of electrical metal laminated to 1/4 inch thick and 1.5 inches wide. We will be making those and testing them within the next 2 days. Those tests will demo the function of the finished machine on a small scale.

I just added 2 cad models to my photo album showing the final form of our machine.

Update, tonight I was charging a standard 9volt battery on the back end. So I checked to see if it would run the wheel and it did!!!!!!!!!!!! 24" diameter and 20 pounds!!!!!!!!!

Update, The wheel ran for one hour on a 9volt battery and charged a second 9v at a rate of 2.72 times faster than run battery was going down.

[Radiantnrg]

Test results of our first 24 hour run. Identical 12 volt lawn mower batteries where used. The run battery was new and the charging battery was 7 years old. The charge battery was run down to 9.05 volts. The run battery started at 12.55 volts and went down to 12.31 volts. The charge battery went up to 11.84 volts. Efficiency was 11.625 X.

[Tom C]

voltage over time is not a good indicator of COP unless battery capacity is known. you need to know how big the bucket really is before you can know how much you have put in. a 40 amp hour battery that only has 10 hrs of capacity will charge really fast. a 7 year old battery probably has 10 or 15 percent of its capacity left. to truly see capacity you need identical batteries one discharged to 12 volts one fully charged to 14.5 minimum.

Tom C

[Tom C]

oh and never take a 12 volt battery other than a true deep cycle below 12... especially a lawn tractor battery, they are very sensitive to over discharging, it sulphates the plates, and destroys capacity.

Tom C

[Radiantnrg]

Tom C, thanks then we need a capacity related COP test protocol.