John Bedini and Twisted Wire

[Tachyon Catcher]

This question is for John as I think he is probably the only one who can answer such a question. Why twisted/litzed wire in the coils? At first, I thought you used it to keep the trigger signal clean from cross induction as they do in CAT5 cabling. Then I started to think about a coil and the many magnetic fields within fields. Then I started to think about the magnetic fields of wire twisted around wire. I think there is much more to the twisted wire than just signal integrity. Would you clear this long standing question up? Also, Peter and Aaron did a bang up job on the Bedini SG ABH. It's awesome!
Thanks,
Randy

[Tom C]

Mutual inductance....
Inductance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tom C

[Dave Wing]

"...I pointed to something yesterday called the SOA curve of the transistor, it's speed now need to be faster 4mhz device to start., if not cross conduction will take effect and at a higher speed and voltage level, your coil needs to be wound in such a manner as to hold the "magnetic field inward" so nothing can get out, one litz wire will do the trick or just wind it that way, a light bulb in the base circuit in series with the base resistor will adjust the impedance curve as the machine goes through it's resonant points for speed each time the machine reaches a new lever the current will drop out increasing the speed of the machine, you can't do it with a 2n3055.you are at the limits of that device and anything more will just blow the device. The neon bulb now will just melt if the hook is wrong, and the device will go up in smoke." (Taken from: Yahoo! Groups ) Dave Wing

[sephiroth]

Mutual inductance....
Inductance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tom C

Is that really the only reason?

[Tom C]

litzing

Is that really the only reason?

yes that is the only reason I know of. litzing is faiirly common, mostly its done to increases the capacity of a stranded wire to carry current, usually the wires are not coated, but it does the same thing with coated wire.

Tom C

[sephiroth]

As well as for magnetic coupling, I assumed that litzing improved transmission of the spike that preceeds the current on the output pulse. Since the spike is of such short duration that it is equivellant to pulsing at very high frequency and so litzing will improve the impedance of the coil during this period. Perhaps I'm looking too much into it.

[Tom C]

As well as for magnetic coupling, I assumed that litzing improved transmission of the spike that preceeds the current on the output pulse. Since the spike is of such short duration that it is equivellant to pulsing at very high frequency and so litzing will improve the impedance of the coil during this period. Perhaps I'm looking too much into it.

I would agree with you on that point seph, that the spike "should " be higher. there are several aspects to mutual inductance. I do not know about the impedance change I do not have an impedance meter with variable frequency input, I just have a cheapo one that does a static reading, ok for matching coils but not much more than that. I have seen a few fluke meters that can change the frequency at which the coil is measured for impedance. I saw JB do some coils, he measured them at 120Khz I think, I dont remember what it was, so dont quote me on that, but he stepped thru a few frequencies. Anyone feel free to do some measurements in this area if you have one of those expensive fluke LCR meters...

i am sure there is some other reasons, but i was told that was why.


Tom C

[bluestix]

Is that really the only reason?

In the Monopole Master Builder DVD he says the reason for twisted wires is to ensure all wires are the same length.

No other reason is mentioned.

[Tachyon Catcher]

This question is for John as I think he is probably the only one who can answer such a question. Why twisted/litzed wire...
Randy

With all due respect to all the contributors of this thread, I have to think there is much more to this. Litzing is resource intense. JB does nothing without a reason. For all the effort it takes, I have to believe there is more to it than assuring the lengths are the same or carry more conventional current. I always guessed it had to do with the trigger signal and the radiant transmission. I thought it might contribute to the "pressure" capacity of the coil prior to collapse. And possibly improve inductance capacity of the coil thereby enhancing the radiant wave. All guesses on my part. Just looking for some affirmations or correction from JB as it looked as this was his official forum to participate in. Tis the season, we're all busy. Thanks everyone for your contributions.
Randy

[bluestix]

With all due respect to all the contributors of this thread, I have to think there is much more to this. Litzing is resource intense. JB does nothing without a reason. .... Just looking for some affirmations or correction from JB as it looked as this was his official forum to participate in.

MONOPOLE MASTER-CLASS

Watch the DVD if you want to hear JB say it.

[Tachyon Catcher]

@bluestix
I have watched both, 1 and 2 and worn out the FE book and read from front to back the newest SG Handbook and built and experimented with five of these suckers. I appreciate your reference, but I think this is one of those things that have been disseminated in bits and pieces and I was looking for sensible answer for myself and the others that built and experiment with these devices.
Thanks,
Randy

[bluestix]

@bluestix
I have watched both, 1 and 2 and worn out the FE book and read from front to back the newest SG Handbook and built and experimented with five of these suckers. I appreciate your reference, but I think this is one of those things that have been disseminated in bits and pieces and I was looking for sensible answer for myself and the others that built and experiment with these devices.
Thanks,
Randy

From the description of part one:
After watching this DVD, even more experienced builders will realize that perhaps they over complicated things when they hear the master explain the basic phenomenology and how he sets about harnessing it to provide power.

[James Milner]

Litz wire is expensive or very labour intensive. So we twist then in a single direction.
More Here
Litz wire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[sephiroth]

hey tom. Whether we are running the coil at 120khz or 10hz the duration of the spike is going to be the same. That's more dependent on the batteries. Off the top of my head (I would have to check my scope) the duration of the spike before the current kicks in is around 1us... if this was AC that would put the skin depth of copper down to around 0.066mm so with John's preference of #20 wire there would still be significant skin effect... But I don't think the skin effect works quite the same with pulse DC as it does with AC since with AC one peak is having to fight against the preceeding trough, which obviously isn't a problem with DC. I would imagine the skin effect for pulse DC isn't as bad, but it will still be present.

Then again, the skin effect might not even be applicable to the type of energy we are dealing with...

[Tom C]

hey tom. Whether we are running the coil at 120khz or 10hz the duration of the spike is going to be the same. That's more dependent on the batteries. Off the top of my head (I would have to check my scope) the duration of the spike before the current kicks in is around 1us... if this was AC that would put the skin depth of copper down to around 0.066mm so with John's preference of #20 wire there would still be significant skin effect... But I don't think the skin effect works quite the same with pulse DC as it does with AC since with AC one peak is having to fight against the preceeding trough, which obviously isn't a problem with DC. I would imagine the skin effect for pulse DC isn't as bad, but it will still be present.

Then again, the skin effect might not even be applicable to the type of energy we are dealing with...

Yup, who knows...... I do not believe it is all that mysterious, same wire length makes sense from a balance standpoint, as does mutual indictance, and some form of inductance in henries at whatever frequency, my coils perform "marginally" better when litzed. Maybe this is is because I was very careful when windin non litzed coils, in laying them parallel.

Tom C