The Ultimate Cap Dump

[min2oly]

I just made a short vid on choosing caps. By the time I finished splicing dicing and uploading. I realized that I should have talked more about the voltage of the cap as it is dumping...

Sometimes I think maybe I should at least think these things through before actually making them

-KR
Patrick

[ZPDM]

Patrick,

I replicated your coil shorting of a pick-up coil. Wow, just wow. I simply used a radioshack reed relay as the sensor and that was all there was to it. anytime output voltage goes from 6 to 120 volts it gets my attention. The reed relay only lasted about 15 minutes before starting to stick but tomorrow I'll try and set it up with a hall switch and transistor. I didn't get a chance to try and do any power comparisons but I think it is safe to say there is a lot more power from the pick-up coil. The idea also seems to fit with conventional theory too in that you are increasing the rate of change of magnetic flux with shorting the coil at the appropriate time as opposed to a slower flux from the departing magnet.

I don't want to sound patronizing but did you come up with this? It really is genius. I am still amazed, I just hope it works again tomorrow.

[min2oly]

Patrick,

I replicated your coil shorting of a pick-up coil. Wow, just wow. I simply used a radioshack reed relay as the sensor and that was all there was to it. anytime output voltage goes from 6 to 120 volts it gets my attention. The reed relay only lasted about 15 minutes before starting to stick but tomorrow I'll try and set it up with a hall switch and transistor. I didn't get a chance to try and do any power comparisons but I think it is safe to say there is a lot more power from the pick-up coil. The idea also seems to fit with conventional theory too in that you are increasing the rate of change of magnetic flux with shorting the coil at the appropriate time as opposed to a slower flux from the departing magnet.

I don't want to sound patronizing but did you come up with this? It really is genius. I am still amazed, I just hope it works again tomorrow.

If you put a small cap across the reed, and/or a resistor inline with the reed, it will last much longer.

This was the first Vid I ever watched on it:

[min2oly]

Youtube messed with the dates??? this is my very first video ever:

I published it November 19, 2009 5:20 PM but the caption shows 2012???
oh well... I am using a reed to short the pickup coil to a third battery.

there is a good thread on it here - Shorting coil gives back more power

[min2oly]

here is how I did it w/ JB's circuit:

In the end "I invent nothing" we all work off the backs of giant thinkers before us.
I don't remember where I found it, can't find it this morning but coil shorting goes back to early 1900's??? maybe someone else here knows.
I do get more out of the coil w/ less drag. It can also be done solid state.

[ZPDM]

here is how I did it w/ JB's circuit:

In the end "I invent nothing" we all work off the backs of giant thinkers before us.
I don't remember where I found it, can't find it this morning but coil shorting goes back to early 1900's??? maybe someone else here knows.
I do get more out of the coil w/ less drag. It can also be done solid state.

Thanks,

I am going through the videos and will try to skim the referenced thread. I did notice that when I repeated things, using a small three pole monopole kit coil, I was getting a much larger Lenz drag along with the increased voltage, you are getting less drag however. Do you also see a decrease in drag with a regular kit style coil with iron core? Perhaps it has something to do with the C shaped core. I have been meaning to make one of these for some time and this seems like a good reason, at the least I would guess seeing both sides of the magnet would be an improvement. I may also not be getting a clean switch from the radioshack reed switch.

In any event I've been thinking about what is going on I'm not sure but here are my thoughts. On the one hand it makes perfect sense that increasing the abruptness of the change in magnetic flux would lead to a higher voltage. On the other hand the coil is shorted! So I see one of two possibilities. 1) the radiant doesn't care about the short? 2) the spike actually happens when the shorted coil is reconnected and suddenly encounters a magnet right near top dead center. While I really like option 2 the problem I have there and which is something that has bothered me since I first started to read on this is why don't we see two inductive spikes when we pulse a coil one when power is turned on and one when it is switched off? I've looked at this and I know you have as well there is only the one spike when power is disconnected. Yet Tesla apparently got into pulsed DC when he noticed a radiant spike when power was turned on to a long power line. I had convinced myself that it was the slow ramp up of power into a coil which blunted the spike out when power went into the coil. Now I don't know, maybe it is there it just doesn't show up on a meter? So I can't figure it out, but in any event, and you might have mentioned something on this, I wonder if you could even get multiple spikes out of one pass of a magnet?

[min2oly]

Do you also see a decrease in drag with a regular kit style coil with iron core?

Yet Tesla apparently got into pulsed DC when he noticed a radiant spike when power was turned on to a long power line. maybe it is there it just doesn't show up on a meter?

I wonder if you could even get multiple spikes out of one pass of a magnet?

yes, multiple spikes.
decrease drag - others have, I do not.

I believe the first spike is negative, it will show up on the scope if you have the timing right. it will not show up on the "meter" if we do not rectify it :-)

here's what goes through my head when I read the rest of your post...

generator coil - pass a giant magnet, on approach it is energising the coil, if you were to rectify it you would see it on a meter, flowing freely into a cap or battery.

The SSG fills up its own power coil full, bulging w/ energy, then disconnects the primary battery and allows the energy to flow through the diode onto the charge battery.

When you pass a magnet by a generator coil and rectify it to a battery, there is no way to hold that energy in the coil the same way the primary battery via SSG does.

in comes "The Coil Short", if a generator coil is shorted as a magnet is approaching, it fills up, bulging w/ energy, when you remove the short, you get the immediate discharge of the coil's energy into battery or cap.

repeat this as many times as you can on a single magnet pass. As long as the coil is filled up before you remove the short, you will get maximum amount of energy from it.

What-cha-all think,
Patrick

[ZPDM]

yes, multiple spikes.
decrease drag - others have, I do not.

I believe the first spike is negative, it will show up on the scope if you have the timing right. it will not show up on the "meter" if we do not rectify it :-)

here's what goes through my head when I read the rest of your post...

generator coil - pass a giant magnet, on approach it is energising the coil, if you were to rectify it you would see it on a meter, flowing freely into a cap or battery.

The SSG fills up its own power coil full, bulging w/ energy, then disconnects the primary battery and allows the energy to flow through the diode onto the charge battery.

When you pass a magnet by a generator coil and rectify it to a battery, there is no way to hold that energy in the coil the same way the primary battery via SSG does.

in comes "The Coil Short", if a generator coil is shorted as a magnet is approaching, it fills up, bulging w/ energy, when you remove the short, you get the immediate discharge of the coil's energy into battery or cap.

repeat this as many times as you can on a single magnet pass. As long as the coil is filled up before you remove the short, you will get maximum amount of energy from it.

What-cha-all think,
Patrick

Well first the practical stuff then the theoretical.

I am getting increased drag, I also noticed that I am not using the same set-up. I'm using a reed to trigger the motor coil, will try it with a sensor coil and see what happens, as strange as this field is I would not be surprised if it made a big difference, So I've tried the commutator circuit (blunts the radiant) reed switches (great but unreliable and max rpms) isn't that funny I'm right back to what Bedini said.

I want to look at power output from a pulsed pick-up coil, say take a 1000 uF cap that will charge to 12V with a pick-up coil, time how long it takes then time it again being pulsed. Yes being pulsed it will go up to 120+ volts, but if it doesn't go to 12V any faster then it is just transforming the voltage and not changing power output. I suppose I could look at what it does across a resistive load as well. From eyeballing it I am pretty sure what I will see but I want to get some numbers on it as well. This is also where my lack of background is a problem. I would say the real question is once you have optimized a pick-up coil (however that is done) to produce the maximum amount of power from a rotating magnet is there increased power output from a pulsed approach. Sort of an interesting question.

Theory wise alright we start with what Faraday said, a conductor such as a coil in the presence of a changing magnetic field produces electricity dependent on the strength and rate of change of the magnetic field. Shorting the coil dramatically increases the rate of change of the magnetic field (a sharp transient as I think Bedini and Bearden have referred to it). However when does the pulse occur? It "can't" occur when the coil is shorted. Just as if you short a cap the electricity will only flow between the the plates of the cap. When the coil is shorted whatever was in it just equalized same as shorting a cap. You also can't say the inductive/radiant is just very very fast, because the signal would be the complete path between both sides of the coil. The only way around this is to say that the radiant/inductive spike doesn't follow the path of least resistance by flowing into the shorted coil and instead flows out into a rectifier. So I give that option about a 50 percent chance.

The other 50 percent option is that the spike occurs when the shorted coil is unshorted. This makes great sense to me in that you could imagine a magnet that normally would be 3->2->1->.1 inches away from a coil with a gradually increasing flux. Now you have a shorted coil right until the magnet is 0.1 inches away, again seeing a sharp transient in magnetic flux. However, if you see an inductive spike when a coil is abruptly energized, well where is that spike when you abruptly energize with a battery a motor coil?

Really, I just realized you can resolve this. Take a pick up coil that has spinning magnets going past. In the first instance keep the coil shorted then unshort it. Stop the rotor, repeat. In the second instance keep the coil unshorted then short it. Stop the rotor, repeat. With a few tries you probably just might see whether the spike occurs when the coil is shorted or unshorted. I may have to try it, that's my two cents.

[guyzzemf]

bedini Video 15.avi - YouTube

for pat -DID SOMEBODY SAY C SHAPED COIL

THE HOLE SETUP IS RUNNING IN A SOLID STATE

I;D HAVE TO RIGHT A BOOK ON THE TIMING BUT THE 2 [C] SHAPE COILS HAVE A SEPARATE TRIGGER [WMW-WINDOW MOTOR WINDINGS A TYPE]
THE 4 COILS ARE 1 TRIGGER
SINCE THE BASE ON ALL IS 3.500 -4.220[24V]
THIS IS WAS DONE 2-3 YEARS AGO
PULSED S.S.

bedini Video 37.avi - YouTube

[min2oly]

generator coil - pass a giant magnet, on approach it is energising the coil, if you were to rectify it you would see it on a meter, flowing freely into a cap or battery.

The SSG fills up its own power coil full, bulging w/ energy, then disconnects the primary battery and allows the energy to flow through the diode onto the charge battery.

When you pass a magnet by a generator coil and rectify it to a battery, there is no way to hold that energy in the coil the same way the primary battery via SSG does.

in comes "The Coil Short", if a generator coil is shorted as a magnet is approaching, it fills up, bulging w/ energy, when you remove the short, you get the immediate discharge of the coil's energy into battery or cap.

repeat this as many times as you can on a single magnet pass. As long as the coil is filled up before you remove the short, you will get maximum amount of energy from it.

What-cha-all think,
Patrick

Guy, you said it best:
"It's all coil shorting, just depends what you use to switch on-off"

The SSG puts these both together in one coil. This is why we see the nice big juicy spike with the wheel. With help from the trigger wire, the CPD mod does this in solid state. Timing is everything.
KR,
Patrick

[brodonh]

Chris video

Here you go guys, finally cleaned up my area a bit and shot a quick video of my Bedini comparator 12V SSR mod circuit. As you can see in the video,
Thanks,
Chris

Thankyou Chris for the vid.

I became convinced that I could build the cct while watching your vid.

I have it running now with John K's recommendations.

I now need to understand how to set the voltage at the end of the dump.

Does anyone have insight?

I thought that I posted this yesterday but.................

Thanks,

bro d

[brodonh]

pulse amperage

I now need to understand how to set the voltage at the end of the dump.

Does anyone have insight?

Thanks,

bro d[/QUOTE]

Hi All,

I hope someone is interested in being active on this thread.

I have the comparator running with a 7 pwr strand bike wheel and the voltage rises to 31v about 2 times per sec.

The pulse amperage is about 1.5A. I using one 15,000uF cap and I'm thinking add capacitance.

Also I have a 4 pole double throw 100A knife switch ($28 ebay) that I'm using for battery switching.

With my intermediate manual pulser I'm seeing 3A pulses but no OU insight. Got to get the comparator working right.

It does pulse faster as I increase input power to SSG. Voltage based.

Thanks for listening.

bro d

[John_Koorn]

Hey Bro, I'm not sure which circuit you're working off. If you can post a pic of it I'll tell you where the pot goes.

John K.

[brodonh]

Hi Bro,
I think John K might know which resistors to play around with.

Have you tried putting a pot in place and adjust it that way?
I have not played around w/ that one other than to just get it working. The power draw just to operate the comparator was too much for my little build.

what kind of draw is your comparator doing?
how many 1.5A P/S (pulses/second)?

sorry no help only questions :-)
Kind Regards,
Patrick

Hi Patrick,

My 7 pwr strand bike wheel is drawing 1amp.

The pulses now with 60,000uF worth of caps are about 2.5amp and appear about 9 per 10 sec.
The scope and the anolog meter show that I'm dumping from 31v down to 19v.

I just added 45,000 more uF because my pulses were only 1.5A. although 1 every .62 sec.
Mine appears to be doing what john showed on the video with comparator and bike wheel.

bro d

[brodonh]

Hey Bro, I'm not sure which circuit you're working off. If you can post a pic of it I'll tell you where the pot goes.

John K.

Hi John,

I'm using the first schematic that Chris shows in his vid (post #170). It is the one that Ron Chase posted, which you and RS modified for 12v charge bank.

Thanks,

bro d

P.S.
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/at...ctor-fix_2.jpg

This pic has the RS mod but not yours.

D7 is changed to (5.1v Zener 5W).

C1, 1uF ceramic and C2 2.2uF electrolytic.

0.47 uF cap over pins 2/3 of the LM741,