My Mode 3 - In action

[BobZilla]

Bob
Question for you Bob, i have watched this video (the one where you explain the cap dump and the solid state device feeding it) several times, i am waiting for caps to build a cap dump like you show in the video. Now for the question, do you recall the the specs of the coil you show on the solid state device that is feeding the cap dump. Also will that solid state device charge batteries on its own without the cap dump? I put together a device pretty much identical to the one you have in the video with the exception I used two coils in parallel. They were microwave secondary's. The output is no higher than the input. I have the arduino sketch running that you show in video (432 hertz). I'm thinking the resistance might be too high.

Hey Brian. Glad to hear your working on things. I made a video response for your questions.

There are a few places where he picture just freezes for a bit but the audio stays on track,, sorry everyone but I didn't have time to do it over,

Link:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0miGX7ZBPxlTFaWltv

[Brian McNece]

Bob
Question for you Bob, i have watched this video (the one where you explain the cap dump and the solid state device feeding it) several times, i am waiting for caps to build a cap dump like you show in the video. Now for the question, do you recall the the specs of the coil you show on the solid state device that is feeding the cap dump. Also will that solid state device charge batteries on its own without the cap dump? I put together a device pretty much identical to the one you have in the video with the exception I used two coils in parallel. They were microwave secondary's. The output is no higher than the input. I have the arduino sketch running that you show in video (432 hertz). I'm thinking the resistance might be too high.

[BobZilla]

Hi Brian,
I got most of those along time ago on a surplus site in bulk. If you don't mind paying full price for new stuff you can find similar ones at Mouser.

I actually just ordered some of these to try out on that old SS from the old video, these are 15Kuf.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Product...47-LNR1H153MSE

[Brian McNece]

Bob
Thank you for continued education, wondering, do you remember where you got those blue capacitors, what they are called, having trouble finding them.

[BobZilla]

Still testing some sketches. I am running the one below tonight and it's doing pretty good. This one has a dance at the start and then two steps. These steps are touching right down to the primary voltage so that a bit of a reversal happens but only very briefly. This shot is across the caps, primary is in gen mode.

[BobZilla]

Hi Alvaro,
Nice work again. I'm glad your doing these tests and sharing with everyone. Yea the lifePO4 can be a little hard to test stuff with because of their discharge characteristics. I think your doing great anyway but especially with those cells it's hard to go just from voltages. My larger ones will discharge almost on a flat line until they just drop off the cliff, not quite the same as lead acid.

Look forward to seeing your extended tests.

[AlvaroHN]

Hi Alvaro,
Nice little experiment there, thanks for sharing it.

There is also a relationship between the capacitance used and the battery. What your on too is correct but I would encourage you to also try changing the capacitance for example, it's not just about the voltage or the time. For me capacitance matters and frequency matters, and voltage (potential) but it's always a balance between these aspects to get the right action.

I like what you have done and hope you will try changing a few things around and take it farther

Tnx Bob I will try some more runs with exact same parameters but changing capacitance as you suggest and see what happens.

Lastnight I made 2 more runs, the battery was charged from the day before, but the standing voltage was less than previous runs (probably because long rest time), so I discharged it down to 6,50v like in previous runs, but the discharge time was less to get down to 6,50v, that time the discharge time was 50 minutes, all others where 57~59 min.

So the battery was probably more charged than in others runs after that discharge, so the first charge run on the following chart is shorter because of that, it would probably would be 1 hour 25 min like the day before.



so here I have 2 charge runs in yellow, the first one is with regular dumps, time 1 hour 12 minutes (but it should have been 1 hour 25 min because shorter discharge time).

The second yellow run is with the mini dumps instead of large dumps, and again, time is much less, 1 hour 25 min from the other days, vs 1 hour 2 minutes.

I will make runs changing capacitance and post the results.

best,

Alvaro

[BobZilla]

By the way guys I still plan to post some runs, I know I said it before and haven't done it yet. I have been experimenting with this stuff and getting familiar with it again. I have done a few runs but they were just to help me tweak a few things. I'm getting more dialed in to where I would want to show. It may not show the properties of the big in-rush like that old video but I would still say that there is an advantage to this regardless if we can scope it or not, the proof is in the results of a run really, just where it has always been.

[BobZilla]

Hi guys I have been reading this thread last days, and found it very interesting. If radiant is on switch closure it makes a lot of sense in pulse lots of times instead of just 1 big pulse.

I have always thought that larger dump was better, because the bigger the dump the more joules etc, so if I dump from 16v down to 12v VS dump 16v down to 15v, the first one is more in joules of course, but they are both the same in the switch closure instant, the battery sees the same in the first instant of the dump, is the mosfet that cutts of before.

So yesterday I took my little lifepo4 AA batteries, 3.2v 700 mAh each, I took 2 fully charged ones and discharged them for 1 hour, down to 6.50v. And started to charge them with a normal cap dump setup, dump from 12v to 9v. Then I discharge them again for 1 hour down to 6.50v, and repeat but changing dump from 9.8v to 9v, small dump. then discharged it again down to 6.50v and charged it again but with a larger dump, from 14,6v to 9,2 v.

Here is the chart of those 3 runs, the input for the cap dump was the same all the time untouched solid state ssg.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6162[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6163[/ATTACH]

I will repeat this afternoon to make sure but the difference is obvios isn't?

best

Alvaro

Hi Alvaro,
Nice little experiment there, thanks for sharing it.

There is also a relationship between the capacitance used and the battery. What your on too is correct but I would encourage you to also try changing the capacitance for example, it's not just about the voltage or the time. For me capacitance matters and frequency matters, and voltage (potential) but it's always a balance between these aspects to get the right action.

I like what you have done and hope you will try changing a few things around and take it farther

[AlvaroHN]

Hi guys I have been reading this thread last days, and found it very interesting. If radiant is on switch closure it makes a lot of sense in pulse lots of times instead of just 1 big pulse.

I have always thought that larger dump was better, because the bigger the dump the more joules etc, so if I dump from 16v down to 12v VS dump 16v down to 15v, the first one is more in joules of course, but they are both the same in the switch closure instant, the battery sees the same in the first instant of the dump, is the mosfet that cutts of before.

So yesterday I took my little lifepo4 AA batteries, 3.2v 700 mAh each, I took 2 fully charged ones and discharged them for 1 hour, down to 6.50v. And started to charge them with a normal cap dump setup, dump from 12v to 9v. Then I discharge them again for 1 hour down to 6.50v, and repeat but changing dump from 9.8v to 9v, small dump. then discharged it again down to 6.50v and charged it again but with a larger dump, from 14,6v to 9,2 v.

Here is the chart of those 3 runs, the input for the cap dump was the same all the time untouched solid state ssg.





I will repeat this afternoon to make sure but the difference is obvios isn't?

best

Alvaro

[BobZilla]

That's a good point about the amp meter. I do have one but I will have to make a plug for the dumper side to put it inline.

I shot a short video here showing what tuning I have been playing with the last few days. I am finding that I have to just write new sketches for this setup as the timing of the old ones was not for these devices. This video is more of a hang out kind of thing, I am planning to do a full run video next but this was just showing two sketch samples.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0miGOzvH5b3m_Rxj-r

[min2oly]

Could be... Another thing I notice in the vid (I think) you have the dump going through an amp meter, and an amp meter on the primary side as well. Have you tried connecting that back up the same way? perhaps the amp meter is doing something to the spike and that's why your voltmeter is picking it up?
I don't have an analog amp meter or I would have tried before posting this.

[BobZilla]

Something else just occurred to me, don't know if it is relevant but it could be. The batteries I am playing with right now and not seeing the effect as much have been conditioned for the negative charge. It might stand to reason that back then on the original setup I was probably cap dumping on everything and they would have been normal positive conditioned. Could be something there?

[BobZilla]

Many times in the past on the old yahoo forum we use to get things working, show some event, take it apart and never be able to replicate it again. It was back then I made a hard-fast rule to never take something apart unless could replicate it a few times. I know JB made a habit of not taking most any of his builds apart.

That being said, at least you have the video… Sounds like you already intend on setting the original stuff back up. I’m going to keep trying with the bike wheel since it is already going. Same batteries etc all is part of the ckt as you already know.

Also, the charging using the sketch you just posted for me is much much much better than straight cap dumping. I’m curious what ever led you down that path?

All said and done, this is a good hunt and I’ve already learned so much. I wish JB would have been more open to using it (the digital chip). He always said he was an analog guy, but that stuff is so difficult to replicate. It would have been interesting to see what sketches he would have come up with.

I know analog is difficult to replicate as many have not been able to replicate what I see as a simple CPD thing or even the negistor. I wonder if my MOD’s are not allowing the transistor to be ON long enough to let the spike go back to the battery I’m going to go old school and see what happens.

Kind Regards - Patrick

Indeed I wish I never messed with that setup but at the time I did not have as many coils and various parts so I had to change around stuff I had built if I wanted to try something new. It doesn't matter if we can replicate exactly what was in that video or not really although it is really erking me now. You hit the nail on the head with saying you are seeing some good results from the dance method vs without it. In other word I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater just because I'm not seeing it so prevalent as before, this method has merit regardless.

What first got me started? Well I just thought the MC would be a great way to control a dump, just regular dumps. That is what I did with it for along time at first and it works great just for that alone. Later on the dancing method just came to me as I was contemplating what had been said by Mr. Bedini about what Mr. Tesla had said with the power plant. The dancing method was always about more dipoles, as I had described in that first post about it. When I saw the 400v thing I took it as evidence that the theory was working and that higher voltage made it more obvious to see but I believe the extra in-rush does occur even at lower voltages but the meter wasn't picking it up until I went higher.

If you read this and think in the context of what the dance method is supposed to be doing it lines up (at least for me) The whole page is interesting but I mostly mean the fist paragraph or two:

http://johnbedini.net/john34/Radiant1.htm

Now regardless if what I thought was happening is happening or not the method also has another aspect that is surely helping the charge. Frequency plays a big part in successful dumps as I'm sure you well know. I have always found that faster frequencies charge better than slower ones. For example a traditional dump of once per second will do better than once per 2 seconds and twice per second better than once and so on. So by slipping this little dance pulses in we are increasing frequency way beyond the major pulse. It keeps things pushing along in a way.

I prefer the MC still because you can do things programmatically that you just cannot do with physical parts. Things like adding variance in time within a loop rather that setting a time and it does the same over and over. The downside of course is that you need a computer to program it and an external supply for the board. Anyway it's been fun going over this with you so thanks. I am still waiting on the FET's but I hope to get that old SS setup like it was originally and see what we get.

I'm going to shoot a video of what I am playing with right now for you a bit later. It's showing some of the properties we are looking for just not as well as before. I can also show you what I think of as a full wave dance instead of the half wave I have shown you so far. It will make more sense when you see an example.

[min2oly]

Many times in the past on the old yahoo forum we use to get things working, show some event, take it apart and never be able to replicate it again. It was back then I made a hard-fast rule to never take something apart unless could replicate it a few times. I know JB made a habit of not taking most any of his builds apart.

That being said, at least you have the video… Sounds like you already intend on setting the original stuff back up. I’m going to keep trying with the bike wheel since it is already going. Same batteries etc all is part of the ckt as you already know.

Also, the charging using the sketch you just posted for me is much much much better than straight cap dumping. I’m curious what ever led you down that path?

All said and done, this is a good hunt and I’ve already learned so much. I wish JB would have been more open to using it (the digital chip). He always said he was an analog guy, but that stuff is so difficult to replicate. It would have been interesting to see what sketches he would have come up with.

I know analog is difficult to replicate as many have not been able to replicate what I see as a simple CPD thing or even the negistor. I wonder if my MOD’s are not allowing the transistor to be ON long enough to let the spike go back to the battery I’m going to go old school and see what happens.

Kind Regards - Patrick

Glad it worked for you Patrick.

Hey I have been also trying to replicate the results we saw in that old video and I'm not getting such dramatic push back on the primary either. I'm hoping when I get some real FET's and setup the old SS how it was in that video that it will resemble the old results but for now I'm just trying to be honest about it with you. I also tried bypassing the diode, heck both of them even but it's just not looking the same. I am getting some good results as far as just looking at it as a cap dump but it doesn't seem to be behaving the same. I'm going to keep at it but don't drive yourself crazy trying to get exactly what we saw in the old video because I am having a hard time at it as well and I'm the one that made the damm thing. It was quite a long time ago and I am trying to remember if there were any tricks to it, I do know that I had tried a lot of variations with the timing. It's not so fresh for me anymore because for quite awhile I have shifted over to non cap dumping methods on my little aluminum machine.