My Mode 3 - In action

[AlvaroHN]

Ok I was waiting to throw this in the table, you Patrick has said what I have been thinking lately regarding this pre-spike conversation.

Yes the actual radiant spike is reverse from the other spike which is the inductive collapse. The scope shot show it, before the pulse starts there is a negative spike, then after the pulse there is the positive spike that we catch with the diode in the SSG circuit.

So what I wanted to say? We are not catching the pre spike... Because we only have one diode redirecting half wave.

So what about the SG , trifilar with third winding as recovery with a full wave rectifier. That would indeed catch both spikes.

Maybe I'm wrong but it makes sense.

Now , have you seen the SG cap dump video on John's energenx YouTube channel ??? The third or fourth video starting from the top of the list.

He on his original SG machine have 7 power windings, and then a full wave bridge rectifier!!! I don't know if he had a regular diode off each power winding or not but... He is definitely using a full wave bridge rectifier on that video.

What you think guys???

Best

Alvaro

[min2oly]

The components are not all too important ( i don't think) and I say that because if you look at the recent 400v example I was doing it with the crydomD1d40 SSR and a 3 leg high power diode BUT,, look back at the original example and I was using a FET with an axial 3A diode. Now the cap might be the same, don't know the brand but it's the small 1000uf but it is the "tall skinny" kind. I can tell you though that I have done the same thing on other caps and on the board I have shown recently with different sized caps in parallel.

I did make a diagram back then and listed parts on it though. Now I notice that the diagram was actually for the 4 fet board first shown in this thread and the 400v video shows a slightly different board with only one fet but I would guess back at the time I used the same fet becasue I loved those, still my go to fet when I want to use one but I am more partial to SSR these days.

http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post10423

It's in this thread back at the beginning but there is that diagram that listed the parts I liked back then. So you see what I mean, we have on video two totally different setups 3 years apart but same outcome. Also note that the original was done with that old single coil monopole as the driver, not a SS. So we have some very different parts and methods to look at there.

Have you tried different batteries by chance? Could be something there with an impedance factor.

Now as far as a sketch for driving a SS,, ok brother I am going to spill the beans here. I did show it in the video, the 432hz. There is an esoteric meaning of this but I did not say anything about that. The way I specifically derived that frequency is also VERY calculated because you can dial that frequency in with other combinations of off/on but those specific numbers I used were intentional and it took me weeks to find them. Do you see Mr. Tesla's three, six and nine mystery in it? Both the frequency itself and the halves that construct it contain the mystery. If you couldn't care less about it that just plug those numbers in and go for it ;-)----Bob


*Edit*
Just a quick thought after reading your comments again. When trying to come up with a sketch for the SS you want to pay attention to the coil your using. Fist a basic measurement of resistance will help you but it's also going to really be the impedance when it's oscillating. They are close to teh same but not exactly, I'm sure you know that anyway but what I mean here is say whatever you were trying and it gave you 2A draw, well if you threw a second coil in series to offer more resistance your draw would go down, or if you used a different coil that was longer or a smaller gauge. The point being that you want to match a coil to be in the ball park with your on time so that yor loading the coil but not to full saturation, almost full but still elastic enough. It's the same principal as on a mechanical wheel and dialing in your on times there but much exaggerated on the MC SS version.

Also could you try manually firing your relay just a few times around the 40v mark? Something keeps telling me that this might be important so I just want to see if it makes any difference for you.

Hi Bob,
Reading back today and see your new edit.

Yup, I saw the spike when I did it manually, didn't need to get much past 25V.

This is a pre-spike, the same pre-spike I see on my coils using my CPD modded SG as well as my modded wheel.

There was someone on another thread who was trying to show more energy being created this way, but he was using clip leads and small aaa batteries not too long after your vid it eluded him, however, and now we know why. I should have put two and two together. I don't think your battery is realizing the energy from the spike though as it is in the opposite direction of the current . I'm out of town until Sunday, I would like to work with the same FET setup you are so I have some on order - maybe next week...
I'm all out of FETs to try...
Thank you for being persistent on this forum!
Kind Regards - Patrick A.

ps JB always said there was more energy created with mechanical switching...

[Bradley Malone]

Here is the sketch for the relay shield cap dump. You can see it is almost identical to the normal pulser sketch above. The only thing different is i have two outputs that I switch witch are the output pins that make the relays switch. Then i have the cap hooked up to the common connections positive to one relay common negative the the other relay common. then i hook the charge side to the normally closed connections and the discharge (battery) to the normally open connections. with this you can charge the cap however you want and controll the timing via the pots.


int OnPin =12 ;
int Ton =1000 ;

int OffPin =15 ;
int Toff =1000 ;

int RelayOne = 4 ; //pin for connecting to transistor or fet
int RelayTwo = 5 ;

void setup() {
Serial.begin(9600); //allows values of Ton and Toff to be viewed in the serial monitor
pinMode(RelayOne, OUTPUT); // sets this pin as an output
pinMode(RelayTwo, OUTPUT);
pinMode(OnPin, INPUT); //sets the potentiometer pins as inputs
pinMode(OffPin, INPUT); //sets the potentiometer pins as inputs
}

void loop() {


Ton = analogRead(OnPin); // reads the Time on input
Ton = map(Ton, 0, 1023, 5, 2000); // changes the value to between 5, 2000 change for longer timing
Serial.println(Ton); // display the value in the serial monitor
Toff = analogRead(OffPin); // reads the Time off input
Toff = map(Toff, 0, 1023, 5, 2000); // changes the value to between 5, 2000 change for longer timing
Serial.println(Toff); // display the value to the serial monitor

digitalWrite(RelayOne, HIGH); // sets the output to 5 volts
digitalWrite(RelayTwo, HIGH);
delay(Ton); // waits Ton value
digitalWrite(RelayOne, LOW); // sets output to 0 volts
digitalWrite(RelayTwo, LOW);
delay(Toff); // waits for the Toff period
}

[Bradley Malone]

the board doesnt matter at all except keep in mind some of the micro boards run on 3v. as for the sketches it only depends on what your using what pin for. certain pins are PWM pins on certain boards and not on others so just adjust the pins to work with your board. as for my sketch The input pins just need to be analog pins so they can read the analog voltage from the potentiometer for setting the timing...and the output pin needs to be a digital pin. Other than that as long as the physical connections match the sketch it should work. also for switching i highly recommend getting a relay shield...once plugged in to the arduino (this is model specific) the "shield" will tap into all of the pins on the arduino and use the same power source, then you simply figure out witch pins switch the relays and make them go high to switch. for me D0,D1,D2,D3 were the output pins and when a sketch makes it go to five volts the shield does the rest and switches the relay for you. The relay shield is how i made my cap dump...I used two relays to completely isolate and alternate the cap positive and negative from charge side to discharge side and it used the same timing as in the sketch i made about.

[Tom C]

Bradley,

I have played with the UNO are sketches board based? can you run an uno sketch on a micro? as long as the pin count is right? just wondering if it mattered. there seems to be a lot of arduino users out there.


T

[Bradley Malone]

Below is a simple arduino sketch that uses two potentiometers (from 5 volt to ground with the center pin attached to the input pins set on your arduino. On mine the pot to set On time is connected to pin 12 as an input and the Off time is pin 15...I kept them separated to keep stray signals from mixing. The output i had set to a relay shield for the arduino but you can use that output for a transistor or fet and pulse the coil.




int OnPin =12 ;
int Ton =1000 ;

int OffPin =15 ;
int Toff =1000 ;

int RelayOne = 4 ; //pin for connecting to transistor or fet


void setup() {
Serial.begin(9600); //allows values of Ton and Toff to be viewed in the serial monitor
pinMode(RelayOne, OUTPUT); // sets this pin as an output
pinMode(OnPin, INPUT); //sets the potentiometer pins as inputs
pinMode(OffPin, INPUT); //sets the potentiometer pins as inputs
}

void loop() {


Ton = analogRead(OnPin); // reads the Time on input
Ton = map(Ton, 0, 1023, 5, 2000); // changes the value to between 5, 2000 change for longer timing
Serial.println(Ton); // display the value in the serial monitor
Toff = analogRead(OffPin); // reads the Time off input
Toff = map(Toff, 0, 1023, 5, 2000); // changes the value to between 5, 2000 change for longer timing
Serial.println(Toff); // display the value to the serial monitor

digitalWrite(RelayOne, HIGH); // sets the output to 5 volts
delay(Ton); // waits Ton value
digitalWrite(RelayOne, LOW); // sets output to 0 volts
delay(Toff); // waits for the Toff period
}


Forgot to add that I map the inputs to between 5ms and 2000ms (2 seconds) the more you shrink the span of these two values the more accurate your control will be with the potentiometer.

[BobZilla]

No worries on blowing things up - it should be understood by everyone here there is information all over the net and it's up to the reader and the experimenter to use common sense and research...

Ah yes, I had the diodes on there as protection when I was switching the MJL as the NPN is not isolated like the SSR is. The SSR is definitely fully connecting as did the MJL and the straight FET. Interestingly the MJL has a better drop. I wonder if my fets are holding back the current as Aaron was talking about on the other thread. I'd like to replicate exact parts you are using just to be sure, would you mind listing

FET -
Diode-
Cap-

I have 3 more Arduino's on order. I've also been playing around with using the Arduino to trigger the "front end" solid state coil as you are. Do you happen to have a good baseline sketch to work from? I can't remember if one of those in the vid you posted happened to be for pulsing the coil?

I seem to be all over the place using too much current then too little etc....
With my CPD moded SS SG, I'm using about 300mA to keep 21600uf to 28V using your "long sketch" I can't get there for less than 2 amps using the Arduino.

There is something I intend to experiment with when I get the high volt spikes to work on the cap dump. I am able to take advantage of their presence on the front end and my charging almost doubles. It could be amazing if I can replicate it here. I believe your meter is correct and the spikes are there.

Anyway, thanks for any help. I'll muddle through it either way.
KR - Patrick

The components are not all too important ( i don't think) and I say that because if you look at the recent 400v example I was doing it with the crydomD1d40 SSR and a 3 leg high power diode BUT,, look back at the original example and I was using a FET with an axial 3A diode. Now the cap might be the same, don't know the brand but it's the small 1000uf but it is the "tall skinny" kind. I can tell you though that I have done the same thing on other caps and on the board I have shown recently with different sized caps in parallel.

I did make a diagram back then and listed parts on it though. Now I notice that the diagram was actually for the 4 fet board first shown in this thread and the 400v video shows a slightly different board with only one fet but I would guess back at the time I used the same fet becasue I loved those, still my go to fet when I want to use one but I am more partial to SSR these days.

http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post10423

It's in this thread back at the beginning but there is that diagram that listed the parts I liked back then. So you see what I mean, we have on video two totally different setups 3 years apart but same outcome. Also note that the original was done with that old single coil monopole as the driver, not a SS. So we have some very different parts and methods to look at there.

Have you tried different batteries by chance? Could be something there with an impedance factor.

Now as far as a sketch for driving a SS,, ok brother I am going to spill the beans here. I did show it in the video, the 432hz. There is an esoteric meaning of this but I did not say anything about that. The way I specifically derived that frequency is also VERY calculated because you can dial that frequency in with other combinations of off/on but those specific numbers I used were intentional and it took me weeks to find them. Do you see Mr. Tesla's three, six and nine mystery in it? Both the frequency itself and the halves that construct it contain the mystery. If you couldn't care less about it that just plug those numbers in and go for it ;-)----Bob


*Edit*
Just a quick thought after reading your comments again. When trying to come up with a sketch for the SS you want to pay attention to the coil your using. Fist a basic measurement of resistance will help you but it's also going to really be the impedance when it's oscillating. They are close to teh same but not exactly, I'm sure you know that anyway but what I mean here is say whatever you were trying and it gave you 2A draw, well if you threw a second coil in series to offer more resistance your draw would go down, or if you used a different coil that was longer or a smaller gauge. The point being that you want to match a coil to be in the ball park with your on time so that yor loading the coil but not to full saturation, almost full but still elastic enough. It's the same principal as on a mechanical wheel and dialing in your on times there but much exaggerated on the MC SS version.

Also could you try manually firing your relay just a few times around the 40v mark? Something keeps telling me that this might be important so I just want to see if it makes any difference for you.

[min2oly]

No worries on blowing things up - it should be understood by everyone here there is information all over the net and it's up to the reader and the experimenter to use common sense and research...

Ah yes, I had the diodes on there as protection when I was switching the MJL as the NPN is not isolated like the SSR is. The SSR is definitely fully connecting as did the MJL and the straight FET. Interestingly the MJL has a better drop. I wonder if my fets are holding back the current as Aaron was talking about on the other thread. I'd like to replicate exact parts you are using just to be sure, would you mind listing

FET -
Diode-
Cap-

I have 3 more Arduino's on order. I've also been playing around with using the Arduino to trigger the "front end" solid state coil as you are. Do you happen to have a good baseline sketch to work from? I can't remember if one of those in the vid you posted happened to be for pulsing the coil?

I seem to be all over the place using too much current then too little etc....
With my CPD moded SS SG, I'm using about 300mA to keep 21600uf to 28V using your "long sketch" I can't get there for less than 2 amps using the Arduino.

There is something I intend to experiment with when I get the high volt spikes to work on the cap dump. I am able to take advantage of their presence on the front end and my charging almost doubles. It could be amazing if I can replicate it here. I believe your meter is correct and the spikes are there.

Anyway, thanks for any help. I'll muddle through it either way.
KR - Patrick

[Brian McNece]

Hi Bob,
Arduino just arrived - I'm playing around with it and my Douglas Randal SSR.

So first of all, I have to say - I've been an idiot for not trying this sooner! I mean come on a 10 dollar cap dump that takes sooooo much effort out of the work I've been doing for sooooo long!


I'm using the long sketch you listed earlier in this thread HERE. I'm letting the charge in two 3300 uf paralleled caps get to 35-45V it varies because of the timing on the sketch.
I'm using a big fat diode on the negative side before the SSR so between the cap and the SSR.

I'm using fat "monster cable" speaker wire from the caps to the charge batteries.
I can not get the high voltage spikes to show up in the dump. I think we also have the same Radioschack Voltmeter the spikes are not showing up there or on my scope. Here is a vid showing my monster mess. I know it needs some cleaning up before the caps, but from the caps to the charge batteries it's fairly clean.

other things I have tried:
1. just one 3300uf cap
2. IRFP260N with the 10k ohm resistor as to ensure shut off
3. MJL21194 NPN
4. simple PWM sketch from your vid 7200MS low 1800MS high


Each of these trigger nicely and work perfectly, just no spike, no spike at all only the voltage dropping across the charge battery. I've ran the trigger as fast as 2microseconds using npn, fet and the ssr each trigger and close just fine.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.
Have you used other diodes on the neg side of the dumping, or always the one?
Maybe your caps?
BTW, if you ever want to see what a particular sketch looks like on the scope, just post it and I'll run it for you.
KR - Patrick

Patrick
Very cool, i can't wait till my arduino is here, you and bob have me excited about trying the arduino.

[BobZilla]

Hi Bob,
Arduino just arrived - I'm playing around with it and my Douglas Randal SSR.

So first of all, I have to say - I've been an idiot for not trying this sooner! I mean come on a 10 dollar cap dump that takes sooooo much effort out of the work I've been doing for sooooo long!


I'm using the long sketch you listed earlier in this thread HERE. I'm letting the charge in two 3300 uf paralleled caps get to 35-45V it varies because of the timing on the sketch.
I'm using a big fat diode on the negative side before the SSR so between the cap and the SSR.

I'm using fat "monster cable" speaker wire from the caps to the charge batteries.
I can not get the high voltage spikes to show up in the dump. I think we also have the same Radioschack Voltmeter the spikes are not showing up there or on my scope. Here is a vid showing my monster mess. I know it needs some cleaning up before the caps, but from the caps to the charge batteries it's fairly clean.

other things I have tried:
1. just one 3300uf cap
2. IRFP260N with the 10k ohm resistor as to ensure shut off
3. MJL21194 NPN
4. simple PWM sketch from your vid 7200MS low 1800MS high


Each of these trigger nicely and work perfectly, just no spike, no spike at all only the voltage dropping across the charge battery. I've ran the trigger as fast as 2microseconds using npn, fet and the ssr each trigger and close just fine.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.
Have you used other diodes on the neg side of the dumping, or always the one?
Maybe your caps?
BTW, if you ever want to see what a particular sketch looks like on the scope, just post it and I'll run it for you.
KR - Patrick

I'm so glad to see you playing with this Patrick. Out of everyone in the group I always thought you would be the one to appreciate what I was trying to do with it. Now perhaps you can put your own spin on it. There are a ton of ways to configure the sketches and you will start finding them. The really great thing is that we can just program it in and if we like it we can save it to load up later, not changing out physical parts.

Please keep in mind anything I may suggest to try, only do if you feel comfortable trying it. Eventually you will blow out an SSR or a MC or whatever else and I don't want you to hold it against me becasue I said try this or whatever. Believe me I have a pile of blown out components from pushing boundaries. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't hold me accountable anyway but just saying..

Your setup look pretty close to mine. If you have a smaller cap try using that but be sure to slow down your feed to the cap first. Another thing you might try is I see those diodes on your MC, obviously it works this way but I wonder with the voltage drop through them if it is not allowing the SSR to open fully or at least causing some sort of issue there. I do not put diodes there or resistors. You could actually just try it without the MC and manually trigger your SSR with an external battery to see if it makes much difference. The SSR usually accepts up to 30v on the trigger side so tapping a small 12v or a 9v manually might open it more fully. If it makes no differance then I guess the diodes are not an issue but if they are restricting the flow then this is a way to test. The MC does not put out much voltage or current on those pins.

As far as the 400V thing goes, I don't know why your not seeing it. I will even say that perhaps my meter is just goofy and it's not really happening but I tend to think it is. The meter is otherwise always acurate on reading things and it only does that when I approach 40v on the cap dump. Anyway I know you want to see it happen on yours but don't get too fixated on it. The new control you have over dumping is far more important to play with. Eventually you should try driving a SS with the MC, it offers the same kind of control, ability to save etc.. I suggest you make different folders for different setups so you can go back on them and know what sketch is for what. Like 6600uf cap dump, 3300uf cap dump, SS white coil 1A, etc,,, point is name stuff so that later on you know the basic parameters you had set it up for.

I'll give you another little thing to try, not for the 400v thing but interesting thing to try. Try an inverse cap dump. Set a sketch so that your on time is longer than the off time, be careful of course, feed it on low at first and dial it in but it works very well if you tune it. You can get going very fast and hold the voltage a bit over the battery.

[min2oly]

Just added a 15,000 uf cap, slight adjustment on my CPD moded SSG to get it to 40 volts and I'm off to the races - Still no spike. Also added monster cable my other connections...

[min2oly]

Hi Bob,
Arduino just arrived - I'm playing around with it and my Douglas Randal SSR.

So first of all, I have to say - I've been an idiot for not trying this sooner! I mean come on a 10 dollar cap dump that takes sooooo much effort out of the work I've been doing for sooooo long!


I'm using the long sketch you listed earlier in this thread HERE. I'm letting the charge in two 3300 uf paralleled caps get to 35-45V it varies because of the timing on the sketch.
I'm using a big fat diode on the negative side before the SSR so between the cap and the SSR.

I'm using fat "monster cable" speaker wire from the caps to the charge batteries.
I can not get the high voltage spikes to show up in the dump. I think we also have the same Radioschack Voltmeter the spikes are not showing up there or on my scope. Here is a vid showing my monster mess. I know it needs some cleaning up before the caps, but from the caps to the charge batteries it's fairly clean.

other things I have tried:
1. just one 3300uf cap
2. IRFP260N with the 10k ohm resistor as to ensure shut off
3. MJL21194 NPN
4. simple PWM sketch from your vid 7200MS low 1800MS high


Each of these trigger nicely and work perfectly, just no spike, no spike at all only the voltage dropping across the charge battery. I've ran the trigger as fast as 2microseconds using npn, fet and the ssr each trigger and close just fine.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.
Have you used other diodes on the neg side of the dumping, or always the one?
Maybe your caps?
BTW, if you ever want to see what a particular sketch looks like on the scope, just post it and I'll run it for you.
KR - Patrick

[BobZilla]

Hi Bob,
I see you have two arduino's one for your SS SG and one for your Cap Dumber. Have you tried using one for both or does that have some ill effects?
Thanks - Patrick

That's a good point to talk about Patrick. It's two reasons that I do not use one for both. I'm sure if I spent enough time trying to figure out a way around the issues it could be done but honestly I just try to keep it simple and treat each one as a single switch controller.

So problem one is that in the simple loop logic that I have been showing the sketch does not proceed to the next line of code until whatever is before it fires. So imagine you have your dump going on/off well if you put the SS code after that then your going to have dumper on/off ,,SS on/off,, dumper on/off, SS on/off. See what I mean, it executes one line at a time in a loop. Now there are ways to program it differently to get around that and if your interested there are tons of sources for learning aurduino but in the way that I am showing it you are just running a loop.

The second reason and this is more of an issue than the first really is that keep in mind that anything your switching with the MC is going to share a common ground. I have had many unforeseen issues with trying to do too much on the same circuit because we usually are playing with different potentials and switching the ground rather than the pos. It is less of a problem with SSR's because the trigger side of those is opto-isolated but if your using FETS you need to run a connector from the source back to the MC ground or it won't have a complete circuit so it will not fire. That's because on a FET it's not an opto switch but rather a tiny current flows from gate through the fet and back out source. without bringing that source back to the MC ground you do not have a trigger circuit.

It can be done with careful planning and more programing but I just prefer to use one MC per switch.

[min2oly]

Hi Bob,
I see you have two arduino's one for your SS SG and one for your Cap Dumber. Have you tried using one for both or does that have some ill effects?
Thanks - Patrick

[BobZilla]

Bob
Thank you for yet another great video. I am already looking forward to the next one. I am moving along on my build, the bearings arrived on Friday. Now to finish up the stand and get it all assembled and working. Electronics is definitely not my strong suit, but i am looking forward to trying the arduino, you have taken some of the "mystery" out of it, making it seem possible for me.

Glad you liked it Brian. I have always been here trying to help and I have shown a ton of stuff over a few years, always with good spirit but sometimes you get a smart alec that joins in. I have a feeling some of my dealings with that has given a lot of people the impression that I am unapproachable, just a pompous ass. I just don't take bull from anyone but that is different. I do not fault anyone for not knowing something or asking questions.

Much to the point if it were not for Patrick and his work I would probably never have understood SS. He was the first to show everyone how to do it, on his old 3p no less ;-) So how can I learn something from him and not try to help others to learn what I have learned, I can't. Patrick also discovered what he called Neg 2 Neg, and nobody got it, I did not either at first. This is what we now call common ground or Gen mode.

Well enough ranting. Brian when you get your MC I suggest that you practice with it before trying to cap dump. Instead of switching a cap with it, hook up a small light bulb to a battery and run the negitive lead through your relay or fet. Practice switching the bulb on and off to make sure the timing is doing what you think it is doing. You could even put your cap into the circuit from the battery but this way it will only charge as high as the battery. What you don't want to do is have too long of an off time when running it for real, and let the cap fill too much. That is dependent on the off time, the on time, the size of the cap and the rate at which the machine feeding it is running. It's a lot of factors to consider but not crazy complicated.

Once you do get a feel for the cap dump with the MC, then you start to understand the advantage of using it. You can change say the on time by only a couple millionths of a second to hold a cap at potential instead of it drifting down. You can start to play with frequency which I will tell you right now is the biggest factor but you guys will get to see all of that yourselves. When you start to play one frequency against another some very interesting things will happen. ---Bob