Why the same diodes on the SG

[kevin72]

I have a question concerning diodes. In the one circuit sg build schematic is shows that an additional higher voltage diode is needed (4007) which needs to be higher than the other (4001), this is explained in the beginner book to "prevent it from burning out" page 30, however in the SG build, 7 circuit, only one diode (4007) is utilized. What has changed in the SG circuit that it now only needs one type? What changes take place in the multi circuit that is not being explained? Am I simply overlooking something?

Thanks in advance.

[Kamen]

kevin72,

The "collector" diode to the second battery needs to handle much bigger voltage and amps than the "base" trigger diode. Earlier it was recommended to use 1N4001 for the base but later got changed to 1N4007 which can handle 1000V at 1A. Because 1N4007 is more powerful it is probably best to use it instead of 1N4001. So just use the same diode for both. This is will be a great start.

A more advanced topic will be what diode to use for the collector. There are people experimenting with different diodes. I recently started using 3x 1N4007 in parallel in order to reduce the impedance so hopefully more energy gets to the secondary battery. So far I haven't done enough experimentation to determine if that is better. Has anybody done any work in using multiple diodes in parallel?

Kamen

[kevin72]

Kamen,

Got it! I just wasn't sure if there needed to be a differential between the base and collector voltage capacity. Even in other Bedini schematics, he uses two different types of diodes. Thanks for clearing that up. Insofar as to your topic as to experimenting with different diodes, are you using a scope to measure the spikes? I don't see the need of placing the collector diodes in parallel, do you think your losing potential due to a loss through impedance? How so?

My understanding thus far is that the circuit is taking and pushing the radiant energy quite efficiently, as stated by Bedini. My guess if there is a supposition of a loss of potential, wouldn't it be the charging battery to blame and not the diode? Are you using a capacitor on your setup? What type of resister are you using?

Almost complete on my 7 circuit SG, I will post some pics when its done.

[Kamen]

Kevin,

My circuit is built per the Beginner's handbook directions 7 power 20AWG + 1 trigger 23AWG coils 130" long. I have also matched the transistors as outlined in the first few pages of the Intermediate handbook. Not yet using the more advanced capacitor dump circuit or using a capacitor across the charge battery. For base resistance I have 7 x 100 ohms for each transistor and a shared pot in series for tuning. The highest RMPs are when the pot is at 75 ohms or total base resistance of 100+75=175 ohms. As a comparison John Bedini's machine at the conference and on EFTV 33 used 470 ohms for each base + 12 ohms shared in series. This will be my next experiment using the fixed values JB used.

As far as the collector diodes on my latest built I use 3 of the 1N4007 on each collector. Someone much smarter suggested to me using multiple diodes in parallel instead of 1 to lower the impedance of the charge circuit. If we look at it there are four elements to it:
1. The power coil
2. The collector diode
3. The battery
4. Connecting cables/battery terminals

Each of those four elements add some resistance to the flow of energy. So the thought was to lower the resistance of the diode in addition of using thicker cables. I understand the impedance of the battery will be high initially. Hopefully the lower resistance of the diodes will have a positive effect on charging. Somewhere on the forum I read that the battery impedance needs to be the same as the coil impedance. And because the battery impedance will change it was suggested to use a cap dump which didn't have that issue. JB just suggested starting the charge in Gen Mode so the voltage will rise faster and once the battery impedance gets low to switch to the regular Pulse Charge. I have no idea how the diode resistance (impedance) affects any of this, but it seems the lower the resistance the better.

Kamen

[BobZilla]

Kamen,
In reading what you just posted I just wanted to comment on the parallel diodes you are running. Just be aware that parallel diodes can present their own unique problems. What generally happens is that one of them will have a slightly different resistance and take on more of the load. As it heats up the resistance drops more and you can get a thermal run away condition where the others are not really passing much current anyway, path of least resistance and all...

Do a little google search on it and you should find plenty of people talking ab out it. I'm not saying "don't do that" you can do whatever you want but it may not be working as you think it is.

[Kamen]

BobZilla,

Thank you for the comment. I just now did some reading on this subject and yes thermal runaway is a problem when using diodes in parallel. The EE forums I checked recommended using bigger diode instead.

But here is where the SSG in my opinion is different - somewhere on this forum Tom C mentioned that for best results the battery cables have to be AWG 12 or bigger. JB has also said to use bigger cables. Just the leads of 1N4007 are much smaller than AWG 12 let alone the silicone junction inside the diode. Those diodes never get hot so they don't carry much current. Yet, we need to use a bigger cable? Doesn't that mean that the silicon "cross section" of the diode being very small is the limiting factor here? So if in conventional EE diodes in parallel may be a bad idea, may be for the type of energy we are trying to capture they make sense. I don't know where the truth is, this is all new to me. I just want to replicate the SSG from DVD 33. Then I will experiment more with the diodes.

Kamen

[BobZilla]

Yes I hear what you are saying and I follow your reasoning. Much of the standard rules do not apply with this technology but I just wanted to make mention of it because it sounded like you had not considered the effect it could have.

One thing you will find all throughout the forum is that matching components is important. Matching transistors, diodes, resistors are all important. I think with the multiple diodes you may be creating more imbalance than it is worth but I encourage you to push on and try things out for yourself.

It's also worth noting that the output is mostly voltage and not current so there is not much to worry about limiting in the first place.

[Tom C]

Kamen,

as far as battery cables go, a single transistor SG does well with smaller wire, but as you add devices the pulses amplify.... so the minimum on a 7 transistor is 12 gauge, if you have 10 use it. somewhere I read that the larger the cable the higher the pulse can be as all the individual devices sum on the charging rail..... Ralph's 6 coil at the conference last year had 4 gauge on it, you could see the wire jump. all that was wasted as it was slowing down because of wire resistance.

Tom

[BobZilla]

Tom I have not seen Ralph's machine, question about it though. Does it have a cap dump or are you talking about straight radiant output with the wires jumping around?

I have always thought thicker wires are better in any situation but I'm curious if this was observed from current dumping or high voltage spikes?

[Nofear]

What happen to using hair thin wire. Not that I am suggesting it, but I was under the impression that pure radiant doesn't care about wire resistance, to the contrary. I remember from JB and beardan that more radiant will flow in the circuit from the environment if the resistance is higher and john was demonstrating how radiant energy wouldn't need more then a hair thick wire since it is not made of electron.
There's nothing worse then losing confidence in what I think I know. Can someone care to comment, please?
NoFear.

[Kamen]

Tom, thanks for the info! I have noticed that if the primary draw is above 1 A there is very strong magnetic field around the coil. I can hold the same ceramic magnet as used in the wheel about 12" away form the coil and can feel it vibrate in my hand. Wondering if the 4 AWG cable on Ralph's machine was vibrating because of that magnetic field. But it will be better knowing the cable was jumping because of the sudden rush of energy going through it.

Kamen

[Brodie Gwilliam]

i assume the test with the small wires was just to show the current is different/ not there and that they werent burning up like they would with different systems, least resistance should in theory be best for better charging , thus thicker wire

[John_Koorn]

The test with small wires back in 1984 was with the G-field generator running a load, not charging batteries. On the SG machine use the thickest wires you can get.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Tom I have not seen Ralph's machine, question about it though. Does it have a cap dump or are you talking about straight radiant output with the wires jumping around?

I have always thought thicker wires are better in any situation but I'm curious if this was observed from current dumping or high voltage spikes?

Bob, it was straight radiant. Ralph had a large capacitor in parallel with the primary battery, but tests in John's shop showed it wasn't doing anything. The radiant was going straight through the cap - I recall John saying that.

John K.

[Mike Swanson]

Bob, it was straight radiant. Ralph had a large capacitor in parallel with the primary battery, but tests in John's shop showed it wasn't doing anything. The radiant was going straight through the cap - I recall John saying that.

John K.

Thanks for the good info on this thread, not to hijack but I wanted to know if Ralph's machine had matched transistors?

Mike