New Two Coil Monopole

[Brodie Gwilliam]

i probably wouldve done same thing... how big was that resistor you blew? 5w???? anyway to harness that energy maybe? if its over 12v maybe a diode coming off trigger before resistors and going to primary positive? maybe that will make it run funny though....

[Forrest]

You are correct.......there is more than one way to control the trigger. I know it sounds dumb but at the time it was my way of figuring out the problem. So much was learned from this one little tad bit of information.

[Brodie Gwilliam]

maybe a separate trigger coil with smaller wire and something like half length will help.... it will be a lot easier than trying to tune a trigger length thats already wound in with other wires... you will also be able to move it further away from wheel if you need

[Forrest]

[Forrest]

Hi BobZilla,

I have almost the very same dual coil setup SG machine you are working with. It has run several hundred hours now. One of my biggest hurdles was the tuning to one spike. I fixed mine by using a very large amperage resistor "variable type" and also had a 3" dia head lamp in line as well. Please keep in mind I am using much larger ceramic magnets. This was a big experiment outside of the norm!

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps807e2a13.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps17568428.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps444afdf5.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2e863e59.jpg

The point being is that the trigger circuit is a A/C alternator. The bigger the magnets the more power that is produced. The more windings the higher the voltage. The higher the RPM the higher the power. So as you can see there are a lot of voltage and power variables that effect the tuning of the transistors. Most of this is RPM sensitive. As your RPM goes of the scale so does the power and voltage and now you see the multiple spikes as the voltage rises. As this voltage rises you need to limit the A/C trigger power down to one spike. I cannot tell you what you need to do because you are outside the box of the regular SG......but RPM may be the problem as I saw in your video. I know everyone here loves the high RPM's but you need to keep in mind is that the triggering is effected by the speed or RPM. At a low RPM the SG will fire just fine but as the speed increases the firing changes because the voltage wave amplitude changes as well......makes a longer and longer duration for the transistor to fire on.

Here is a quick way to prove my point. Put and automotive taillight bulb on the empty trigger cuircuit and see what happens as the machine ramps up in speed. This will show you the problem. The bulb will gain brightness as the RPM increases. You need to limit this power. In my pictures you will see a very large resistor in my hand that was burned in two by all this power. I contained it by the use of a head lamp and a very large variable resistor in series with each other to limit this power to the transistors. It works well! A lot of experimenting to find the answer.

This is why JB uses a fan on his SG demonstration model to limit the speed of the wheel. He knows that the RPM is his enemy in regards to the trigger circuit power and effects the transistor firing. The fan just happens to be a very good governor. I know it looks cool but the fan is a very important part of this issue. JB is an excellent physicist and has told us everthing we need to know on how to build a SG machine......but .......he has not told us everything he knows about it. That is for us to figure out!

Hope this helps you out.

Bud

[BobZilla]

Anyone watching my new machine thread knows I have been playing around with 2 spike, one spike, three spike to see the differences. When we setup for one spike it seems to me that that is the true spike produced from the induction triggering mechanism. When we get more spikes I think it is the circuit going into self oscillation for a brief time , probably the power winding inducting across the trigger and re-opening the base.

For me a question has been if two spikes could be better, I am not saying they are but just thinking out loud about it. One side of reasoning is that you double the frequency, yes smaller voltage but double the amount of them. I have no way to see the actual spikes to look for the spike potential and that is where it is all at as Tom has said.

In my experiment I am assuming that although 2 spikes has lower voltage the two of them may add up to more harvesting than the one larger one but do not know really for sure, it is an assumption. I am really not putting fourth an assertion that one is better than two or two better than one, just trying to think it through. I know that my machine will charge both ways and I did some runs in my thread to support that.

I shot a video of what I am talking about. I did not really explain all to well in the video what the point is but it shows me running the machine with one spike and two, while looking at the AC frequency across a power coil and also the voltage the meter senses. Again most of this is based on assumption that may not be accurate to what is really happening, these are just honest observations and hypothesis. The actual spike we are all interested is not even represented because I don't have the equipment to monitor it, all I can do is monitor by-products around it.

Here is the video:
https://files.secureserver.net/0s8o4eviuBnWwE

I originally posted that over in branches thread, just posting it here in case anyone did not see that, it has more relevance to this thread anyway.

[BobZilla]

H Aln,
Yea that sounds about right too me as well. Gen mode is basically a constant current charge and does not do anything for the sulphation but it does charge the heck out of batteries quicker than any other mode. I am thinking to use gen mode to get the battery most of the way there and then top off in mode one. I was thinking mostley of the lower current it would require towards the end of the run if I do it that way but you bring out a very good point in that the high voltage spikes should help clean up any sulphation. Much more experimenting needs to be done. Eventually I am going to start showing some cap dumping from this system but so far I am concentrating more on the basic function of the machine. Thanks man ,, comments are welcomed --Bob

[aln]

From DVD 33 JB shows the charge curve of gen mode and says it is like conventional current charging, so will that form of charge on the lowerer side of the charge as you are planning to use it sulfate the plates, or will fininshing with radiant (mode 1) shake them up enough to move all the sulfate ions back to the acid solution and off the plates? I welcome your pondering out loud. Keep up the good work. Thanks, Aln

[BobZilla]

Update:
That run did not go well. I think I fiddled around with the pot too much and used up the primary too soon. I have had this machine less than a month so I am still getting to know it.

I am topping off the charge with another battery and will try another run. I think where I may have gone wrong was trying to adjust it way too much. What I intend to do is set the resistance in mode one where it should be and then just click it over to generator mode. Mr. Bedini uses a fixed resistor on his machine and he does not make any adjustments between modes that I have seen so I will try the same.

I am also thinking about doing a hybrid charge between both modes. Using gen mode to get it up to 13.2v or so and then finishing with mode one which draws a lot less current. From the various videos that actually seems to be the way it is intended to be used although you can use just gen mode or just mode one.

[BobZilla]

Pretty neat huh.

I have not removed the cymbals,, how would I play if I did that! Just kidding.. I asked Aaron about this in the thread about curvature of space time you could go look at his response but it was not all to informative. Not Aaron's fault, it is just a weird phenomenon and not much to say about it. That room is extremely crowded at the moment and it would be hard to put stuff in there. I'm not sure the cymbals have anything to do with it but I just though maybe they are acting like receivers, may have nothing to do with them. Just a strange thing.

The new run is under way guys, will post back when it is finished.

[Branch Gordon]

That's very interesting! Have you tried removing the cymbals? Or maybe moving something big in front of them to simulate you standing there?

[BobZilla]

I am going to do another run in the same mode. I have switched the primary and secondary around from front to back. They have both been sitting at rest since last night so they are not swapped and run immediately, although that may be even better but in this run they have rested for many hours.

I shot a small video of something I have spoken about in other threads for you guys to check out. I have noticed that when I put myself in proximity of the machine the voltage readings will jump around a few tenths of a volt. I started noticing that this happens even if the machine is not running. I have seen this on other machines I have but the new one seems to be much more sensitive, probably because it has two coils. Not really sure what to make of it but I shot a video so you guys can see what I am talking about. It will do this running or not running.

https://files.secureserver.net/0s1dAYx9gNPTu1

[BobZilla]

I have some more run data to show the group. This run was a generator mode run, no cap dumping.

The primary and secondary are identical Walmart deep cell boat batteries rated at 109AH according to the sticker.

I am really happy with the result but it is not a perfect run. I certainly got a good run out of it but what happened is I was trying to set and forget the pot. I wanted to leave it in a fixed position the whole run and I almost did. Towards the very end of the run I kept waiting for the finishing curve to start ramping up but it got to nearly 14v and was still climbing along at almost the same rate.

As I explain in the video to follow as the primary voltage dropped I lost RPM and I think I just didn’t have it in the right spot for the lower voltage to finish up. I knew when it was at 13.9 it should have taken off but it just wasn’t so I decreased the pot resistance a little bit and the charge voltage shot right up to 15 as the RPM increased. The primary was about 11.5 or so and the charge was at about 13.9 before I touched it. You can see it in the charts.

Anyway I will have another go at it and maybe get a better chart but the charge battery absolutely got a full charge. You can see the resting curve and tell. Also notice it started at 11.8 or so, normally I don’t like them to get down below 12.2 but this one was below 12 to start. In the end the machine ran for about 26 hours and look at the voltages, the primary is resting where the secondary started and vise-versa. I also peeked in the charge battery and it was bubbling a bit before I shut it off.


Charge:


Primary:


And here is a little video I shot at the end of the run.
https://files.secureserver.net/0sjD563B53nHkd

[BobZilla]

Ok guys here is the last set of charts having to do with various spike settings. This one is on 3 spikes. The draw was 600ma and RPM about 180

What I think interesting is comparing the first run and this last one on the primary, they both wind up around 12.4 with the only real difference being the time it took. These runs were not tightly controlled so there are little differences but for ball park viewing it seems that I did not really conserve anything, just took longer. There is an advantage however in that at least I know it WILL charge up running on 600ma so if I have a primary that cannot push 2+ A I can use more time and still get it done.

Also something really interesting is the load on this last one. Same bulb but I noticed it was pushing up and down quite a lot while under load. At first I thought I may have a loose connector somewhere but that was not the case, the battery was actually doing it. That may have something to do with "power density" that I have heard Mr. Bedini and others talk about. It had a good strong charge after that 2 spike run for sure. Over all the one spike runs were very clean looking compared to the others.

Anyway a lot more testing needs to be done but I wanted to do this simple comparison for the group, not everyone has meters like I have to chart so it's something neat to look at if you do not have one yourself. I notice a lot of interesting things going on in these charts but I will not go over all of them. Also it looks like I was messing around on the pot but actually I was not this time. It was set and run exactly the same for both runs, those spikes and whatnot occurred naturally.

[BobZilla]

The actual audible sound of the coil is much more apparent on this machine than my smaller one. It may be the two coils instead of one or the wire size. This one has 8 power windings of 18AWG. My smaller machine has 4 power windings of 20AWG.

Before I built this machine I also ran one of these coils on the smaller wheel but the sounds still were not as distinct. Who knows, these machines all run differently and this one is new too me so I am still getting to know it.

I have not really begun to experiment yet with the branch circuit output but I think that is really going to be efficient. Over all I think my "2 spike" tuning seems to be the best because it still charges great but at much lower input however if ou look at the time scale it is actually about even. One spike got it there in about 5000 seconds and 2 spike in around 10000 so....

Still need to move on with my larger batteries though, these are all done on a small garden tractor variety. It's hard to say which is really the best setting though with the pot in the mix. What I need to do is figure out the proper resistance for each spike range and have a swappable fixed resistor for each range.