New Two Coil Monopole

[BobZilla]

Hi Gary,
I agree with what your saying. I guess I thought those would be great but sometimes things don't work out as we expect. Your exactly right about my rod, it is cold rolled variety from the hardware store.

Everyone seems to be pointing to the same conclusion in that there must be too much friction. I didn't really think about the surface area of those rollers but since you point it out it makes sense. I don't need thousand pound loads on it anyway Lol

Thanks for the advise.

Still looking for more info about one vs two vs three spikes but perhaps when I get smoother bearings I can get to one spike with a reasonable draw.

[BobZilla]

I have made some adjustments to the new machine. I changed out the old axle and bearings for a larger diameter (3/4in) and the new bearings are BALL type instead of the roller type I had in it before.

The machine is running much better now! I removed the covers on the new bearings and washed them with kerosene to remove the grease. Then I sprayed them down with break cleaner to remove any oil residue. Finally I lubed them with Tri-Flow (thanks Tom great suggestion).

I have not done a free spin test just because it is so hard to alighn the coils that I don’t want to take them down but I can say that the wheel is spinning very freely on this new axle.

I probably still have some adjustments to make but over all the machine is running pretty good now, much better than previously. I have noticed that the wheel has a slight warp in it but it is not all too bad, I just have to accept it and move on.

Here is a picture of the axle and wheel standing still. You can see the timing mark in this shot so you know what your seeing in the video as far as the width of the mark.



Now moving forward I intend to do some runs as I said before with one pulse, two and three pulses per pass to compare. I shot this video to show what I am talking about so when I present the run charts you can see an example of how it runs with these different timings. The timing light is made from one red and one blue led, each in the opposite direction so that one catches the charge and the other the discharge wave.

When looking at the video you can see the width of the charge on the spokes very well but the actual timing mark is on the rim edge and you need to look closer to see that. Right of the top I notice that if you compare one pulse to three there is a drastic difference in the width of the charge. Three seems more defined and sharper. Within each setting it can be adjusted a bit but the video is just to show in basic terms what I am looking at.

I do not have an O-scope guys so this is about as good as it gets for my analysis capabilities. I will be following up with some run charts done at various settings. I also have a cap dumper we could employ later on but for now I am focused on the machines operation in mode one.

Video Link:
https://files.secureserver.net/0sOKvi4dxR0CC0

[BobZilla]

I am going to begin the comparison charts. I can tell already that this is going to be hard to measure in a precise way so it is only going to serve as a general observation. Part of the trouble is that within each setting for spikes there is a lot of available tuning. For example the first set of charts will be the 1 spike tuning.

With the one spike tuning I can dial down the resistance to where I am drawing about 1 1/2 amp and it will indeed show 1 spike however this range can be dialed up to 3 amps or even higher, all ranges between show one spike but the charging effects are not the same.

What it has boiled down to for me is to listen to the coil and find a particular resonance which can be heard. For example in some testing I was doing before running the charts I found that at around 1 1/2 A the charging was there but much slower than if I just give it another 500ma. The chart would be at about 13.25 climbing but as I push up just a little bit it would jump right up to 14.75 and climb there, I am talking about a ceiling on the charge. Both will climb but it is like a spot where the charging increases big time. You can here it in the coils too; a bit of a buzzing sound.

Now if you over do it the wheel will start to slow down and it is not beneficial, again it is a tuning thing that I have developed a feel for. So if you are with me so far the method I have decided to go for to try and keep all three settings of a sort of equal comparison is going to be to set the spikes either 1, 2, or 3 for whichever we are charting on and then tune within that range to where the resonance becomes audible.

Where that turns out to be within each setting is actually to bring it to speed where it is transitioning from more spikes to less and then go about half way up from there to the next shift. So say it is seeing three spikes and I dial it up to two,, ok at that point if I back off half of the way between the two than that is just about right. Don’t know if that makes sense but it is just something that can be observed when standing in front of the machine and listening to what is going on.

I could run it at the bare minimum to keep in a particular spike range but I have found that the charging is much better if I give it that little bit extra. The return for adding a little draw seems to be much greater than trying to conserve it. If I had a scope to look at I assume that the spikes are gaining a lot of amplitude in that small tuning window.

Anyway here is the first chart. I started out timing everything nice and even but I didn’t realize the software was going to change the scale on me and made it hard to keep exactly on.



It starts out with a rest of 1000 seconds, then the load for 9000 seconds, then rest 1000, then charge 7000. Originally the chart was scaling at 1000 second notches across the bottom but then it switched up on me so these two are roughly the same times and draw rate on the primary, but not exactly.. This is obviously not tightly controlled lab experimentation ;-) but at least you will be able to see a few examples of the charges at different settings.

The second chart is voltage on the primary so really the only activity is when the charge starts, otherwise it is just resting while the secondary is being loaded and rested.

The primary is a Wal-Mart deep cell 109AH and the charge battery is a recovered garden tractor battery. The machine is capable of charging much larger batteries but for these tests I wanted to use something that would charge and drain fast.

This is with the machine set to 1 spike. The rpm was 350 and the draw rate was about 2300ma. The load is a auto bulb rated at 13v 7.5 watt.







Next update will be runs made on 2 spikes at a lower draw rate & RPM

[BobZilla]

Here is the chart from the 2 spike setting.

The second one is a little rough because I fiddled around with the pot and couldn't get it exactly where it was on the first one.

the first charge was pulling 1A even and RPM was 233, the second was pulling 1100ma and RPM was 244. It was jumping around that spot I was talking about previously and I was trying to smooth it out. It was still well within the 2 spike setting but as I said before there is a lot of tuning within each setting. Eventually I need to put a fixed resistor switch on the machine but I am still tying to find optimum values with the pot.

Also it was late at the end of the run so I just shut it off and let the charts keep running over night.





Next up will be 3 spike tuning.

[Branch Gordon]

I follow what you are saying man. I have one spike anywhere from 0 to 50 ohms on my POT. I haven't ever been able to hear anything from my coil though...maybe my wheel spinning is too loud. I have a stethoscope....wonder if I hold that next to the coil if I could hear something...

I am going to begin the comparison charts. I can tell already that this is going to be hard to measure in a precise way so it is only going to serve as a general observation. Part of the trouble is that within each setting for spikes there is a lot of available tuning. For example the first set of charts will be the 1 spike tuning.

With the one spike tuning I can dial down the resistance to where I am drawing about 1 1/2 amp and it will indeed show 1 spike however this range can be dialed up to 3 amps or even higher, all ranges between show one spike but the charging effects are not the same.

What it has boiled down to for me is to listen to the coil and find a particular resonance which can be heard. For example in some testing I was doing before running the charts I found that at around 1 1/2 A the charging was there but much slower than if I just give it another 500ma. The chart would be at about 13.25 climbing but as I push up just a little bit it would jump right up to 14.75 and climb there, I am talking about a ceiling on the charge. Both will climb but it is like a spot where the charging increases big time. You can here it in the coils too; a bit of a buzzing sound.

Now if you over do it the wheel will start to slow down and it is not beneficial, again it is a tuning thing that I have developed a feel for. So if you are with me so far the method I have decided to go for to try and keep all three settings of a sort of equal comparison is going to be to set the spikes either 1, 2, or 3 for whichever we are charting on and then tune within that range to where the resonance becomes audible.

Where that turns out to be within each setting is actually to bring it to speed where it is transitioning from more spikes to less and then go about half way up from there to the next shift. So say it is seeing three spikes and I dial it up to two,, ok at that point if I back off half of the way between the two than that is just about right. Don’t know if that makes sense but it is just something that can be observed when standing in front of the machine and listening to what is going on.

I could run it at the bare minimum to keep in a particular spike range but I have found that the charging is much better if I give it that little bit extra. The return for adding a little draw seems to be much greater than trying to conserve it. If I had a scope to look at I assume that the spikes are gaining a lot of amplitude in that small tuning window.

Anyway here is the first chart. I started out timing everything nice and even but I didn’t realize the software was going to change the scale on me and made it hard to keep exactly on.



It starts out with a rest of 1000 seconds, then the load for 9000 seconds, then rest 1000, then charge 7000. Originally the chart was scaling at 1000 second notches across the bottom but then it switched up on me so these two are roughly the same times and draw rate on the primary, but not exactly.. This is obviously not tightly controlled lab experimentation ;-) but at least you will be able to see a few examples of the charges at different settings.

The second chart is voltage on the primary so really the only activity is when the charge starts, otherwise it is just resting while the secondary is being loaded and rested.

The primary is a Wal-Mart deep cell 109AH and the charge battery is a recovered garden tractor battery. The machine is capable of charging much larger batteries but for these tests I wanted to use something that would charge and drain fast.

This is with the machine set to 1 spike. The rpm was 350 and the draw rate was about 2300ma. The load is a auto bulb rated at 13v 7.5 watt.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2852[/ATTACH]


[ATTACH=CONFIG]2853[/ATTACH]


Next update will be runs made on 2 spikes at a lower draw rate & RPM

[BobZilla]

The actual audible sound of the coil is much more apparent on this machine than my smaller one. It may be the two coils instead of one or the wire size. This one has 8 power windings of 18AWG. My smaller machine has 4 power windings of 20AWG.

Before I built this machine I also ran one of these coils on the smaller wheel but the sounds still were not as distinct. Who knows, these machines all run differently and this one is new too me so I am still getting to know it.

I have not really begun to experiment yet with the branch circuit output but I think that is really going to be efficient. Over all I think my "2 spike" tuning seems to be the best because it still charges great but at much lower input however if ou look at the time scale it is actually about even. One spike got it there in about 5000 seconds and 2 spike in around 10000 so....

Still need to move on with my larger batteries though, these are all done on a small garden tractor variety. It's hard to say which is really the best setting though with the pot in the mix. What I need to do is figure out the proper resistance for each spike range and have a swappable fixed resistor for each range.

[BobZilla]

Ok guys here is the last set of charts having to do with various spike settings. This one is on 3 spikes. The draw was 600ma and RPM about 180

What I think interesting is comparing the first run and this last one on the primary, they both wind up around 12.4 with the only real difference being the time it took. These runs were not tightly controlled so there are little differences but for ball park viewing it seems that I did not really conserve anything, just took longer. There is an advantage however in that at least I know it WILL charge up running on 600ma so if I have a primary that cannot push 2+ A I can use more time and still get it done.

Also something really interesting is the load on this last one. Same bulb but I noticed it was pushing up and down quite a lot while under load. At first I thought I may have a loose connector somewhere but that was not the case, the battery was actually doing it. That may have something to do with "power density" that I have heard Mr. Bedini and others talk about. It had a good strong charge after that 2 spike run for sure. Over all the one spike runs were very clean looking compared to the others.

Anyway a lot more testing needs to be done but I wanted to do this simple comparison for the group, not everyone has meters like I have to chart so it's something neat to look at if you do not have one yourself. I notice a lot of interesting things going on in these charts but I will not go over all of them. Also it looks like I was messing around on the pot but actually I was not this time. It was set and run exactly the same for both runs, those spikes and whatnot occurred naturally.

[BobZilla]

I have some more run data to show the group. This run was a generator mode run, no cap dumping.

The primary and secondary are identical Walmart deep cell boat batteries rated at 109AH according to the sticker.

I am really happy with the result but it is not a perfect run. I certainly got a good run out of it but what happened is I was trying to set and forget the pot. I wanted to leave it in a fixed position the whole run and I almost did. Towards the very end of the run I kept waiting for the finishing curve to start ramping up but it got to nearly 14v and was still climbing along at almost the same rate.

As I explain in the video to follow as the primary voltage dropped I lost RPM and I think I just didn’t have it in the right spot for the lower voltage to finish up. I knew when it was at 13.9 it should have taken off but it just wasn’t so I decreased the pot resistance a little bit and the charge voltage shot right up to 15 as the RPM increased. The primary was about 11.5 or so and the charge was at about 13.9 before I touched it. You can see it in the charts.

Anyway I will have another go at it and maybe get a better chart but the charge battery absolutely got a full charge. You can see the resting curve and tell. Also notice it started at 11.8 or so, normally I don’t like them to get down below 12.2 but this one was below 12 to start. In the end the machine ran for about 26 hours and look at the voltages, the primary is resting where the secondary started and vise-versa. I also peeked in the charge battery and it was bubbling a bit before I shut it off.


Charge:


Primary:


And here is a little video I shot at the end of the run.
https://files.secureserver.net/0sjD563B53nHkd

[BobZilla]

I am going to do another run in the same mode. I have switched the primary and secondary around from front to back. They have both been sitting at rest since last night so they are not swapped and run immediately, although that may be even better but in this run they have rested for many hours.

I shot a small video of something I have spoken about in other threads for you guys to check out. I have noticed that when I put myself in proximity of the machine the voltage readings will jump around a few tenths of a volt. I started noticing that this happens even if the machine is not running. I have seen this on other machines I have but the new one seems to be much more sensitive, probably because it has two coils. Not really sure what to make of it but I shot a video so you guys can see what I am talking about. It will do this running or not running.

https://files.secureserver.net/0s1dAYx9gNPTu1

[Branch Gordon]

That's very interesting! Have you tried removing the cymbals? Or maybe moving something big in front of them to simulate you standing there?

[BobZilla]

Pretty neat huh.

I have not removed the cymbals,, how would I play if I did that! Just kidding.. I asked Aaron about this in the thread about curvature of space time you could go look at his response but it was not all to informative. Not Aaron's fault, it is just a weird phenomenon and not much to say about it. That room is extremely crowded at the moment and it would be hard to put stuff in there. I'm not sure the cymbals have anything to do with it but I just though maybe they are acting like receivers, may have nothing to do with them. Just a strange thing.

The new run is under way guys, will post back when it is finished.

[BobZilla]

Update:
That run did not go well. I think I fiddled around with the pot too much and used up the primary too soon. I have had this machine less than a month so I am still getting to know it.

I am topping off the charge with another battery and will try another run. I think where I may have gone wrong was trying to adjust it way too much. What I intend to do is set the resistance in mode one where it should be and then just click it over to generator mode. Mr. Bedini uses a fixed resistor on his machine and he does not make any adjustments between modes that I have seen so I will try the same.

I am also thinking about doing a hybrid charge between both modes. Using gen mode to get it up to 13.2v or so and then finishing with mode one which draws a lot less current. From the various videos that actually seems to be the way it is intended to be used although you can use just gen mode or just mode one.

[aln]

From DVD 33 JB shows the charge curve of gen mode and says it is like conventional current charging, so will that form of charge on the lowerer side of the charge as you are planning to use it sulfate the plates, or will fininshing with radiant (mode 1) shake them up enough to move all the sulfate ions back to the acid solution and off the plates? I welcome your pondering out loud. Keep up the good work. Thanks, Aln

[BobZilla]

H Aln,
Yea that sounds about right too me as well. Gen mode is basically a constant current charge and does not do anything for the sulphation but it does charge the heck out of batteries quicker than any other mode. I am thinking to use gen mode to get the battery most of the way there and then top off in mode one. I was thinking mostley of the lower current it would require towards the end of the run if I do it that way but you bring out a very good point in that the high voltage spikes should help clean up any sulphation. Much more experimenting needs to be done. Eventually I am going to start showing some cap dumping from this system but so far I am concentrating more on the basic function of the machine. Thanks man ,, comments are welcomed --Bob

[BobZilla]

Anyone watching my new machine thread knows I have been playing around with 2 spike, one spike, three spike to see the differences. When we setup for one spike it seems to me that that is the true spike produced from the induction triggering mechanism. When we get more spikes I think it is the circuit going into self oscillation for a brief time , probably the power winding inducting across the trigger and re-opening the base.

For me a question has been if two spikes could be better, I am not saying they are but just thinking out loud about it. One side of reasoning is that you double the frequency, yes smaller voltage but double the amount of them. I have no way to see the actual spikes to look for the spike potential and that is where it is all at as Tom has said.

In my experiment I am assuming that although 2 spikes has lower voltage the two of them may add up to more harvesting than the one larger one but do not know really for sure, it is an assumption. I am really not putting fourth an assertion that one is better than two or two better than one, just trying to think it through. I know that my machine will charge both ways and I did some runs in my thread to support that.

I shot a video of what I am talking about. I did not really explain all to well in the video what the point is but it shows me running the machine with one spike and two, while looking at the AC frequency across a power coil and also the voltage the meter senses. Again most of this is based on assumption that may not be accurate to what is really happening, these are just honest observations and hypothesis. The actual spike we are all interested is not even represented because I don't have the equipment to monitor it, all I can do is monitor by-products around it.

Here is the video:
https://files.secureserver.net/0s8o4eviuBnWwE

I originally posted that over in branches thread, just posting it here in case anyone did not see that, it has more relevance to this thread anyway.