8 transistor Board

[BobZilla]

@ Guy,

Really man, that's it? That disappoints me a little...

I will say again, I post this stuff for the benefit of the group. I do not need to come on a public stage to teach myself what I already know.

Nice work! I'm going to have to put that arduino on my todo...


There’s a lot of good info on Arduino controlled SS SSG on the energetic forum and youtube. Much discussion on optimizing duty cycle relax coil time etc…
One of my favorite Arduino controlled SS SSG, people can say what they want about the UFOguy, but one of my favorite Arduino controlled demo’s is this series here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYOwKkNs4lk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyD0BM95kus

Much has to be taken into consideration when we take the control away from the coil, now you have the control so it’s up to you, front end, back end, coil etc... The hunt is on to find where the radiant is :-)
Kind Regards,
Patrick A.

I will let you know if my drum kit starts floating away ;-)

Seriously that was some interesting stuff. I'm not sure I followed the whole of what he was saying but it did spark some idea's. I do not go to other forums, maybe on a rare occasion but I find it hard enough too keep up with this one. I'm sure others are using Arduino too, it just makes sense to use such a perfect timing device but I have not seen anyone using it in the way that I am on the trigger with no wire. That doesn't mean they aren't of course but I came up with this independent of others.


@All
The thing is when you loose the wire on a SS it takes a lot less to drive the base, I mean a lot less. Probably because of the mutual induction you get between the power and trigger coils and it just takes more energy to fill that trigger coil than it does to tickle a mosfet. They are not current devices after all and that is huge. I mentioned it before but I first tried with some crystal cells and they did actually work but just not strong enough, I was getting a weak spike. The point though is that even such a low energy cell like those (talking the copper/mag) is enough to trigger the power coils. I still may get them working on the machine but I probably need a few more. The actual switching across the power coils is super clean at all speeds with this setup.

The trigger coil on a SS is sort of a left-over from a former life on the machine (I am coming to realize). It serves it's purpose very well on a mechanical setup, brilliant! When we move the wire however and take from the primary instead of magnet induction it changes a lot more than you might think. It does run and some of them run very well but the main thing is the SS runs at such a high frequency that things occur which do not and can not on the slower mechanical setup. The induction of the coil is no longer free from the magnet, it is paid for from the primary and we do not need an inductor to open the base at that point anyway because we have lost the mechanical advantage. What we are doing when we do that is taking 12v and reducing it down with massive resistance and 100+ feet of wire to go to the base. It had a purpose when the energy was free but in a SS it is not.

Heck you don't need an arduino to put it to the test. You could do the same thing with a mosfet, a source, and a tiny dc motor with a magnet on a flywheel that triggers a hall sensor or something. Arduino kicks ass because you can program every detail of how you want to fire but what I am saying is we do not need to use 100+ feet of hookup on the base in SS. Know what I mean yet? I said it before but I also want to say again that it is a huge benefit to have a steady voltage of the same pressure tapping the base. Far better than wildly swinging voltages.

Anyway that is all mumbo-jumbo that you can take or leave. I can tell you though that this thing now runs like a dream! Best freaking charging I have seen in a long time AND very efficient. I am not just some guy who just showed up and started changing everything in site with no understanding of how things work. I have built many devices over the years, mechanical and SS. Some didn't work out and others worked pretty good but I do have experience from it all.

[min2oly]

@ Guy,

Really man, that's it? That disappoints me a little...

I hope we are not taking Guy out of context here. My post was only poking a little fun. And yes It is all coil shorting is very general. I'll let Guy speak for himself, but I take it at it's root - we need to pay attention to the basics as we build out. It may have been more of a compliment to what you are doing here. taking the trigger out etc...
KR,
Patrick

[min2oly]

I will say again, I post this stuff for the benefit of the group. I do not need to come on a public stage to teach myself what I already know.


I will let you know if my drum kit starts floating away ;-)

Seriously that was some interesting stuff. I'm not sure I followed the whole of what he was saying but it did spark some idea's. I do not go to other forums, maybe on a rare occasion but I find it hard enough too keep up with this one. I'm sure others are using Arduino too, it just makes sense to use such a perfect timing device but I have not seen anyone using it in the way that I am on the trigger with no wire. That doesn't mean they aren't of course but I came up with this independent of others.

Hi Bob,
I did not mean to take anything away from what you have done on your own. If I was making a wheel, I would sure want to study what others were doing that worked. Perhaps it could be a distraction, however. I tend to be able to read through the nonsense though. You seem to be doing just fine. Please continue. I do like where you're at and where you're headed. Thank you for continuing to share.
Kind Regards,
Patrick

[BobZilla]

I hear you Patrick but still after posting all of that info and whatnot I still would say "that's it", regardless of your comment.

I may be projecting some of my own frustration on this. Anyway it is not a big deal, I respect Guy and all of you guys, but if those who DO understand the finer points have nothing to say than it seems pointless to keep coming here and presenting my findings. This is not for the fellow who asks about using neo magnets or the best size wheel or can I use 800ft,,and such like that. That stuff has it's place and we need to keep helping people along but don't you guys ever want to talk real shop around these circuits?

Removing the trigger wire was a break through moment for me.

[Tom C]

Bob,

you are neck deep in it!! kep up the good work...... I would love to pursure what you are doing (thanks for the fet switch!) I am trying to get ready for the conference and I wish I had time to replicate your arduino driven SS.... I have a board and coil ready, I have a PICAXE board I was gonna use for a tesla switch.... it has the power supply installed and ready to be wired up. to many things half done. and when your kids start sports all the free time you thought you had goes bye bye and then the weathwer gets good enough to start riding dirt bikes again....

Tom C

[BobZilla]

Right on Tom ;-)

I'm sure you are super busy with the conf coming up, besides regular life. I would love to see you duplicate what I am doing whenever you have time. A word of caution,, start out with a small source on the fet switch because the timing is everything. It is the short 3 4 or 5 thousandths of a second that keeps the C to E under control. If I open up longer with that 6v knocking the fet gate it will open everything wide open where my amp meter on the primary gets buried. There are a few ways to adjust, could use less voltage on the switch to open the gate less, timing effects it too. For my coils the 6v drives nicely but all I'm saying is start out small with as short of an on as your controller will allow for. The diode and fet are specifecly chosen for their speed so if the controller can do it, they can follow. In my setup if I use 1 one thousandth of a second nothing happens, if I use 2 I get a weak trigger, 3 is just right, 4 uses a bit more current and may be over saturation but I am still playing with that.

Anyway I'm here for you buddy if you need anything....

[min2oly]

Bob,
I hope I have not added to your frustration.
Do you mind posting some of your settings? like duty cycle, volts going through the mosfet to the bases vs the volts/amps hitting the bases of each transistor or anything you can think of that might help w/ replication.

Do you have a schematic circuit diagram of how you hooked up the mosfet trigger?

I know some of this will be different depending on the coil that is being pulsed and batteries. We have the same coil, I thought I'd give it a try. Have you completed a run cycle?
Thanks,
Patrick A

I hear you Patrick but still after posting all of that info and whatnot I still would say "that's it", regardless of your comment.

I may be projecting some of my own frustration on this. Anyway it is not a big deal, I respect Guy and all of you guys, but if those who DO understand the finer points have nothing to say than it seems pointless to keep coming here and presenting my findings. This is not for the fellow who asks about using neo magnets or the best size wheel or can I use 800ft,,and such like that. That stuff has it's place and we need to keep helping people along but don't you guys ever want to talk real shop around these circuits?

Removing the trigger wire was a break through moment for me.

[BobZilla]

Patrick I am fine my friend,, I welcome discussion about these things. I don't even mind if someone disagrees with what things I may say but the conversation is still golden.

I have to run but I wanted to post a quick reply to you. I will be back later tonight and can give you more thorough answers.

An arduino puts out 5v on the signal pin so that is what activates the fet gate at whatever timing I program.

The fet board was originally meant to be a cap dumper as you have seen in other videos like the cap dancing one. So instead of dumping a cap I am just "dumping" that 6v battery on and off real quickly which goes to the base of the transistor through the 200 Ohm resistors.

I will get into more detail and give you the part numbers etc.. for the diode and fet later on when I have more time. Rest assured it is a really simple thing to hook up, really simple.

[min2oly]

Bob,(thanks for the fet switch!)

Tom C

Did I miss the post?

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bob,

I hear you Patrick but still after posting all of that info and whatnot I still would say "that's it", regardless of your comment.

I may be projecting some of my own frustration on this. Anyway it is not a big deal, I respect Guy and all of you guys, but if those who DO understand the finer points have nothing to say than it seems pointless to keep coming here and presenting my findings. This is not for the fellow who asks about using neo magnets or the best size wheel or can I use 800ft,,and such like that. That stuff has it's place and we need to keep helping people along but don't you guys ever want to talk real shop around these circuits?

Removing the trigger wire was a break through moment for me.

I appreciate what you've been sharing with us even if I don't comment very often! In fact, I appreciate most of what is shared on this forum and try to keep up with all the new posts every day.

I removed the triger wire on my old rotored SSG as well and replaced it with two hall switches in series switching two small transistors to trigger a 5 filar, #18 AWG x155' power coil. This allowed me to adjust both the timing and pulse width. The net result was a decrease in radiant mode charging but an increase in generator mode charging compared to using the trigger coil. It went over a cop of 1 in charge mode.

Anyway, keep up the good work. I'm sure I'm not the only one following your contributions with great interest.

P.S. I may have to try FET's to replace the two small transistors for cleaner, faster switching of the 21194's.

[min2oly]

Maybe you could add this little module to the arduino in conjunction with your solar panel to make sure your setup only triggers within a set range...

This could help under low light situations, add some txt to change the freq as the clouds come in etc...
KR,
Patrick A

[Tom C]

Did I miss the post?

nope, he sent me one out of the blue.... forgot to say thanks

Tom C

[guyzzemf]

I will say again, I post this stuff for the benefit of the group. I do not need to come on a public stage to teach myself what I already know. [/QUOTE]

BOB
it was just a statement made in general/ moving the trigger out of coil is feat in itself .i was not trying take way from anything you are doing i understand where you come from i beat myself up trying to show how to run 4 coils for the price of 1 four years ago
the process was just touch on this year remember lots of people read these post . every post here is on face book and the statement
ITS ALL COIL SHORTING its just how you do/ fits well for all newbie and master it tells all there is many ways to control the coil
hell i gone as far as putting a 16 point commutator brush and small battery to move trigger out of coil its all good .i follow with you with
a new zeal you passion rubs off on me and i sure to others .we all put a lot of thought and time in what we do and sometimes we fell
short changed some times . i havent done much with nonrotered systems but you got my ears on .remember i seen 100s of people come and go so i hope you stay here
guy

[BobZilla]

Hey Guy it's all good. I am usually not a complainer and I don't intend to start crying now Heh.. Not that big of a deal so let's move on.

You are correct that sometimes passions run high with these systems. I like many of us have been running some form of this circuit non stop for a few years now and often three or four at a time so it kind of grows into your mind.

I said earlier that I would post like a diagram and specs etc for exactly what I am doing but I do not have time just yet to do that, I will though.

I will elaborate a bit on some aspects of what I am doing that I think really help. Most SS wind up running constantly on because of the high frequency involved. Yes they are oscillating but the primary draw is constant, we loose a bit of the real and true switching action that a mechanical provides. Heck even mechanical can get out of hand if the rpm goes too high but that is not my point. Not to try and put words in Mr. Tesla's mouth but he did let on that very unique things happen on switched DC and only switched DC. With these fast fets I am using I am getting a very true switch action, you need to cut off when off and completely off, not even a trickle of current. Patrick's CPD does this too at low frequency but if you go over it becomes a steady feed. A SS with just the trigger wire moved never has a true off because it is being force fed. So with what I am doing The primary is truly off when off, pure switching. This helps greatly with the radiant but not only that we are using much less because of the off/on action and it seems that my primary may be getting a little boost from the short recovery time, or like a cap does with rapid dumps. Anyway this is a bit scatter brained here but my main point is that in this configuration I am activating the oscillator but also there is a sharp ON/OFF of the entire circuit. To think of it another way I showed that the machine ran at like 2Ghz right, well it still may oscillate that fast but ONLY for 3 thousandths of a second at a time and then it is OFF/ON and so on. It is much different from a forced fed trigger.


Something else which I really did not elaborate on about this setup is that the fet board is switching on the negative rail. Again I cannot explain everything and what it all means through text, this is really sit down and discuss kind of material but it is significant and should be understood if you want duplicate.

That board was originally designed for cap dumping and we all know that we switch on the neg for that application right. So The board is laid out so that the "Cap" and the target battery have POS connected all the time and the cap's NEG is switched through the drain and source to the battery's neg when the gate is tickled with a signal voltage.

In this adapted application what this means is we do not have a cap anymore, it is a 6v battery. On the fet board the "cap" we could call IN and what was going to our charge battery when it was a cap dump we will call OUT. So the IN and OUT POS traces are connected. The IN Neg is switched to the OUT neg. How does that hookup then and what does it mean?

The POS of that 6v battery is always connected to the base, that's right I am not switching on the base(at least not in the direction you might think). There is also a diode on that board who's original job was to prevent the destination battery or the OUT side from charging the original cap or the IN side, with me still? Can't cap dump if the battery just sloshes it back and fourth right so the diode blocked the destination from back charging into the cap. The diode has some meaning too but it is not the main thing here.I just wanted to mention it because someone will notice it and ask. Where is it switching then,,,, Across the emitter of the power transistors.

Anyway there is a ton of stuff I could go on about with this arrangement but there you go, a bit more info.

Here are the exact fets and diode I am using. If you look over the white papers for these devices you will probably see why I am using them for a fast switching application.

*EDIT*
I posted the hyperlinks but the forum didn't like them.

If you go to Mouser.com and put these part numbers in their search you will find the parts.

Fet:
726-IPP50R190CEXKSA1

Diode:
583-SF84

[BobZilla]

Maybe you could add this little module to the arduino in conjunction with your solar panel to make sure your setup only triggers within a set range...
Click image for larger version. Name: $T2eC16hHJHIE9nysfqDLBQiTeVdoYg~~60_35.JPG Views: 4 Size: 12.2 KB ID: 3511
This could help under low light situations, add some txt to change the freq as the clouds come in etc...
KR,
Patrick A

Nice! I will keep it in mind as I work towards the solar. I still have a lot of tuning to try out with this thing so it might be awhile until I get it on the solar. I am using my little tracker5 3a on my panel though and damm it works pretty good. It even charged up one of those 100AH depp cells I have, not the walmart but the real 100AH (blue ones). It took a few days to do it but it did eventually take it to 15v.