BobZilla's Custom Build

[min2oly]

Hi Bobzilla,
All of this is IMHO :-)
So the output buss is the same however, you can have the output buss the same for two separate coils, move the coils so the magnets hit at different times, adjust the timing so the coils do not fire at the same time and the bus does not care... does the battery or cap care??? they might, so this kind of ties back to your surf'n-skipper doodad. will the cap charge faster with multiple pulses from the coils ie each of your 4 coils firing separately or will the cap/bat charge faster if they all fire at the exact same time. Either way you can control the timing of all four coils with a POT on each board that controls each set of transistors and find out pretty quickly for yourself.

Why are we matching then… matching in an individual coil is so the transistors fire at the exact same time and open/turn off at the exact same time. If not then the energy in the transformer/coil will backup from one wire, then hop over to the next so that it has to find its way out of the maze, maybe some of it will not even find its way out… end up as heat or some other phenomena, and the battery or cap will not be able to realize the full potential the magneto has to offer. There is some good reading on matching transistors right on the data sheet of many transistors.

Of course I’m no expert on this. Grain of salt and all that…
Patrick A.

Ok so wait a second, let me clarify because I don't think we are on the same page. When I said branch circuit what I meant was splitting the output diodes into branches, such as two batteries. Mr. Bedini made that video a few years ago showing it being done on a small coil and a 3055 type transistor but the principal is the same on larger setups. Instead of bussing all the diodes together towards the charge pos, splitting them to go to separate outputs. I built that old SS with the 200ft coil to work that way. Anyway that is what I meant when I was saying branch.

This machine has all the boards wired up in the standard fashion so yea there is a bit of branching at the base from the trigger but you know all the E and C are bussed which is why they all need matching unless I'm not thinking about it correctly. Patrick why wouldn't each of them need matching, I'm curious on your line of thought there?

So looking at how this machine is configured we have the boards all standard configuration and then the boards themselves have busses all the way around. So I have three main busses going all the way around, pri pos, pri neg, charge pos. Also the trigger is bussed before the input to each board with a big loop of 21AWG. The charge neg is feeding back to pri pos or pri neg through the big diode depending on the switch position.

You know that knife switch is funny you mention, I originally had purchased knife switches for the machine but I decided not to use them. The ones I got just looked like they may be a little dinky for the job so I went with some heavy duty toggles instead. I had thought how cool would that be to have like a Frankenstein's lab looking switch.

Gary your advice is sound for sure. I have to train myself for now to just not touch the darn thing. I may have to move it or replace it, I can just see someone flipping it "whats this do" ..

Thanks for all the input and comments guys. It reminds me of the older days when everyone was really active with exciting stuff to share and collaborating the efforts.

Well I'm off to try and get this thing fixed again...

[BobZilla]

Now you have tasked me with an experiment I must try myself. remove the branch resistors from a multi-filer multi-coil system, never tried that move. Is there an experiment you did that led you down that path?

Ok so wait a second, let me clarify because I don't think we are on the same page. When I said branch circuit what I meant was splitting the output diodes into branches, such as two batteries. Mr. Bedini made that video a few years ago showing it being done on a small coil and a 3055 type transistor but the principal is the same on larger setups. Instead of bussing all the diodes together towards the charge pos, splitting them to go to separate outputs. I built that old SS with the 200ft coil to work that way. Anyway that is what I meant when I was saying branch.

This machine has all the boards wired up in the standard fashion so yea there is a bit of branching at the base from the trigger but you know all the E and C are bussed which is why they all need matching unless I'm not thinking about it correctly. Patrick why wouldn't each of them need matching, I'm curious on your line of thought there?

So looking at how this machine is configured we have the boards all standard configuration and then the boards themselves have busses all the way around. So I have three main busses going all the way around, pri pos, pri neg, charge pos. Also the trigger is bussed before the input to each board with a big loop of 21AWG. The charge neg is feeding back to pri pos or pri neg through the big diode depending on the switch position.

You know that knife switch is funny you mention, I originally had purchased knife switches for the machine but I decided not to use them. The ones I got just looked like they may be a little dinky for the job so I went with some heavy duty toggles instead. I had thought how cool would that be to have like a Frankenstein's lab looking switch.

Gary your advice is sound for sure. I have to train myself for now to just not touch the darn thing. I may have to move it or replace it, I can just see someone flipping it "whats this do" ..

Thanks for all the input and comments guys. It reminds me of the older days when everyone was really active with exciting stuff to share and collaborating the efforts.

Well I'm off to try and get this thing fixed again...

[min2oly]

You can make one of these with some copper if you can't find one at your local electronic store. Place it inline with the supply + right next to the NegNeg switch with a big red sign
"Stop! Think!"

Never switch on the fly unless you get to the point where you can "channel" spikey with your thoughts.
On the bright side, that sounds like a serious contender for a beefy cap dump! I'm not sure I would want to put just any battery on the end of that one.

Now you have tasked me with an experiment I must try myself. remove the branch resistors from a multi-filer multi-coil system, never tried that move. Is there an experiment you did that led you down that path?
KR - Patrick

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bob,

I think it would be a good idea to replace that switch with a snap action one that has no center off position. That's what I have on mine, and even then it will give one quick flash of the neons if I switch it while the wheel is running.

Safest thing is to not even touch the switch while the wheel is running. Yea, I know, Peter shows doing this in the video and I saw him do it in person at the conference. But with my machine, I do sometimes get a quick flash of the neons which can't be good for the transistors. So now I always disconnect the primary battery before throwing the switch. And if you have a capacitor across the primary it should be disconnected as well, so the stored charge won't blast the transistors while throwing the switch.

[BobZilla]

Ok so I went about troubleshooting those last two boards last night. I got one where I thought it was fine, put it back on the machine and it ran. Then I thought ,,,let me try gen mode also so I did and that worked...Now I think I *MAY* know what has been going on because I messed that board up again!

My gen mode switch is a double throw with an off in the middle. So it's like GEN-OFF-MODE1. Well I think I caught myself throwing that switch around before the wheel had stopped which effectively is the same as what Patrick said about putting the diode in backwards. It's not backwards but if the switch gets moved to the middle off position then their is no path back to the Pri, even if it is only a second between clicks.

It happened so fast that I am not even sure that is what I did but I must be more careful messing with the mode switch! So now I have more repairs to deal with after work again tonight,,, geez ,,, It's a great machine guys,, really lol,, the operator is dummy however!

[BobZilla]

I feel your pain on this that just bites.
one time when I switched to NegNeg mode I put the neg to neg diode in backwards ie... no connection to charge battery and luckily only blew one of 8. you only need to match the 4 on each board with each other, not all 16 T's right... not much consolation. If not the diode then some loose wire, bad solder or just one of the T's from your earlier mishap?
I'm sure you'll find it.
take it easy, wish you luck - Patrick A

Oh no,,, it is all 16 that Should be matched on this one,, and really 32 when it is all together. They are all output to a common buss down to the charge pos. No branch circuit on this thing. I am thinking that maybe it was a messed up tranny from the first time and perhaps I missed it or maybe it was weakened by the first event. All of my soldering and connections are pretty solid. As far as that diode goes, it was in the same position as it had always been and I had been running the machine for quite awhile without problems before I put that bad battery on the first time, what I am trying to say is everything was correctly oriented in the circuit and screwed in, no gator clips or anything to have mixed up. Anyway it's just one of those things, if we can't take a blown transistor once and awhile we have the wrong hobby ehh.

Hopefully I will be back with good news next time....

I just got home so I am going to ry and get this sucker fixed back up

[min2oly]

Yea Gary that is my very expensive starting knob Lol. I had bought that a long time ago to try and run a generator from my old 2 coiler,, needless to say it didn't come close to turning. I still have that generator if I ever need it, one of those kind you can bolt up on a bike with a gearhead already on it.

I gotta tell you guys this thing is a challange. I'm not sure where I went wrong this time but I have let the smoke out again. Such a damm shame since these were all matched transistors. I should have built it with unmatched ones and figured out all the quarks and then gave her the good stuff. I will get it sorted out, heck the thing ran great almost non stop for a few weeks and now it seems trouble is looming.

I sort of have an idea what I did, it was not as bone head as putting a short battery on it but trouble is trouble. I had good batteries on it and I went to start a gen mode run, was actually going to film this one and post but when I switched my on switch it instantly was pulling a load on the primary. At first I thought maybe the diode had been damaged from the last mishap but it checked out fine. Then I started unhooking boards again. I have cleared two boards to be fine but I have to check two more tomorrow and see how bad the damage is. I'm really not sure what initially blew them though, without that base opening there should not have been a loop.

Oh well, I'm not to proud to say I screwed something up, twice now. It is a tricky little setup but I have seen it running absolutely fantastic.


Tom I thought about a double stack too, and I also have the free rigger wires from the slave coils. I plan to put other pick up coils in the front around that 4 inch wheel. The drag can be adjusted through gap and I figure it will ad a little mechanical resistance like a fan. At very minimum I want to pick off enough to run an aurduino from somewhere on it so I can run my dumper without an external supply.

Patrick I will tell you but keep this a secret ,,, it's got a flux capacitor on the back ;-)

I feel your pain on this that just bites.
one time when I switched to NegNeg mode I put the neg to neg diode in backwards ie... no connection to charge battery and luckily only blew one of 8. you only need to match the 4 on each board with each other, not all 16 T's right... not much consolation. If not the diode then some loose wire, bad solder or just one of the T's from your earlier mishap?
I'm sure you'll find it.
take it easy, wish you luck - Patrick A

[BobZilla]

Yea Gary that is my very expensive starting knob Lol. I had bought that a long time ago to try and run a generator from my old 2 coiler,, needless to say it didn't come close to turning. I still have that generator if I ever need it, one of those kind you can bolt up on a bike with a gearhead already on it.

I gotta tell you guys this thing is a challange. I'm not sure where I went wrong this time but I have let the smoke out again. Such a damm shame since these were all matched transistors. I should have built it with unmatched ones and figured out all the quarks and then gave her the good stuff. I will get it sorted out, heck the thing ran great almost non stop for a few weeks and now it seems trouble is looming.

I sort of have an idea what I did, it was not as bone head as putting a short battery on it but trouble is trouble. I had good batteries on it and I went to start a gen mode run, was actually going to film this one and post but when I switched my on switch it instantly was pulling a load on the primary. At first I thought maybe the diode had been damaged from the last mishap but it checked out fine. Then I started unhooking boards again. I have cleared two boards to be fine but I have to check two more tomorrow and see how bad the damage is. I'm really not sure what initially blew them though, without that base opening there should not have been a loop.

Oh well, I'm not to proud to say I screwed something up, twice now. It is a tricky little setup but I have seen it running absolutely fantastic.


Tom I thought about a double stack too, and I also have the free rigger wires from the slave coils. I plan to put other pick up coils in the front around that 4 inch wheel. The drag can be adjusted through gap and I figure it will ad a little mechanical resistance like a fan. At very minimum I want to pick off enough to run an aurduino from somewhere on it so I can run my dumper without an external supply.

Patrick I will tell you but keep this a secret ,,, it's got a flux capacitor on the back ;-)

[min2oly]

Hi Bob,

It's lookin' good!!

With that sprocket on there you could hook it up direct drive to a go kart! LOL

I didn't even see that the first look over - good eye!
what else you hiding in plain sight there Bob :-)
KR- Patrick

[Tom C]

Bob,

that little bit of extra sticking out the back of the coil holder..... it might seem like its a waste, but make yourself a little gen coil and just hang it off it.... you get a bit of extra out of the machine with no added input.

Tom C

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bob,

It's lookin' good!!

With that sprocket on there you could hook it up direct drive to a go kart! LOL

[BobZilla]

Hello friends,
I am back with another update on the machine. I do have it up and running now!

It has actually been running for awhile but I am still getting to know it so I have not posted any video just yet. I have had some very successful runs with it and also some pretty crappy ones. As is always the case it needs proper tuning and I am trying to learn where it likes to be. It will always charge batteries but getting the best efficiency is the challenge at hand.

Besides figuring out the tuning for mode one I also have many options to run with. So far I have done 12vPrimary, 12vCHarge mode 1,,, 24VPrmary 24v charge mode 1 ,,, 24v Primary 12v charge mode 1, 12v Primary 12 v Charge gen mode, 24v Primary 24v charge gen mode. I have not even tried putting a dumper on it yet. I also have not played with adding the pick-up coil on the front which if it works properly will throw another variable into the tuning but for now I am trying to run it without that.

Under mode 1 12v the top rpm I have seen is about 385rpm. With 24v it is about 550rpm.

On 12v I can run it between 1 to 5 amps on the draw,, somewhere around 2A seems to be about right. On 24v I basically get the same range but of course that is double the wattage consumed. Over all I think the machine runs best on 24v Primary but again it is early on in the learning process to say for sure.

I had it running great for about a week and then I pulled a dumb dumb move. Yea I took an old battery that was sulphate, practically shorted and put it on there. I didn't take half a second to blow out some transistors. I knew better than to do it when I did it but I was a little too excited about the machine and like a dummy I thought I could magically break the basic rules of Bedini technology.

I had to take all the boards off and trace test the transistors with a continuity test. I was lucky that all that blew actually blew the junction between C & E so I could identify the bad ones fairly easily. I wrecked 3 out of 16 with that little move and lost nearly a week to troubleshooting and reassembling but she is back in business now.

I will hopefully have some video to share soon. It is hard to get runs in while I am working.

Here are some pics of it all buttoned up.

[BobZilla]

Hello everyone,

I'm back with a little update on the machine. I have trimmed and assembled the coils. The trigger came out to be 3.2 Ohm and the power windings are 2.7 Ohm according to my multi meter.

Here are a few shots with them mounted up on the frame.





We are getting closer and closer to getting this thing running now. Next up I have to solder up the boards and mount them. -----Bob

[BobZilla]

Allen i know what you mean man I love to watch a smooth running machine.I am hoping this one will be.


Tom I appreciate the offer, I will have to think about it. Heck this thing looks nice but we have yet to see if it is really anything special.

I remember Mr. Bedini making comments on people with their fancy builds and the impression I got was he didn't think to highly of them BUT I think the message was that you must understand the machine or else all the fancy stuff is wasted. I have spent a few years now building with wheels and glue and shoddily constructed frames and in my mind I am just bringing what I have learned to the next level. This will help overcome some of the issues I have with my builds. Like the two coiler I was running before this build for example. It ran pretty good but I preferred to keep it in 2 spikes because at higher rpm it got quite shaky due to balancing/spacing of the magnets and the axle was just glued in. For me it is just time to get more precision but any new guys out there looking at this should understand that you DO NOT need such a fancy build to learn this technology. Some of my first builds were with scrap wood and old wheelchair wheels I found in the trash.

Oh Gary I am in Virginia so we are talking the other side of the country pretty much.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bob,

.........I am not within reasonable driving distance. ;-)

If you don't mind sharing, where are you located?