BobZilla's Custom Build

[BobZilla]

It seems pretty consistent on my system. Who knows though, far to often we try to attribute one thing to another when really there is something else going on.

Try it out and see for your self, I would be curious if you get similar results. All you need to do is slide your primary coil to one side a bit. When you spin one direction it will be advancing , the other it will have a retard. Pretty simple thing to play with. You will need a pot on your trigger however to adjust the current because the retard state draws less if given the same resistance so just as I did in the video you would need to adjust it to the same draw rate as the advanced setting. Also without adjusting the resistance at all I notice it still charges a bit better in the retard configuration but I was trying to make it apples to apples.

It would be easy to test on an old 3pm kit too if you had a pot hooked into one. Mine has been heavily modified and uses a different circuit so I can't use it to verify. The thing is that multi coils may have a lot to do with the effect. The primary coils power winds will be positioned the same as the trigger but all the slaves (28 on my machine) will have the offset. Not sure if a single coil machine will act the same.

*EDIT*
Another forum member PM'd me and pointed out a mistake I made in the video so I want to clarify. In the video I described the coil being moved to the left and the others to the right which would result in the reverse of what I described in regard to advance and retard. My mistake was that when adjusting the coils I am working on the machine with it spun around, looking at the back so I mistakenly said it backwards. When looking at the machine running the primary coil is shifted to the RIGHT and the slaves a little to the LEFT. Sorry for any confusion.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bob,

Kudos on the timing shift video. That is a very interesting effect you show. I think you may have stated earlier in another post, but are you running it in repulsion mode or attraction mode. I assume you are running in attraction?

[BobZilla]

Hi Gary,
Yea I am running attraction mode.

I will try to shoot another video and show the coils spacing and the amp draws with a little more detail.

I have said over the course of a few videos a few different things but it can be hard to keep up sometimes with all the different changes and reading other posts it all gets mixed up. Let me describe what I am running currently again.

One trigger wire on the bottom coil is doing the triggering for all others. The machine has 8 coils with 4 18AWG power winds each (teslagenx built)

I have the trigger coil offset to the right a bit, the slaves are to the left a bit. I did that with the slaves simply because I do not have a lot of wiggle room on my frame to make these adjustments. If I had more space I could just move the trigger coil and get the same effect.

This offset creates an advance on the trigger when spinning the wheel clockwise and a retard on the timing when spinning counter clock wise.

In addition to the timing adjustment I also have different spacing (gap) for the slaves than for the primary. The slaves are about an 8th inch gap while the primary is about half inch or so. This lets me get the maximum pull power from those slaves while not hitting the trigger too hard with the induction. I have only been setting up this way for a short time but so far it works very well. It occurred to me one day that with a multi coil you do not have to set them all at the same gap, the trigger has it's purpose which is far different from the slaves purpose. The slaves are pulling the wheel around and if brought in closer can have more pull power (they are just electro magnets after all). The trigger will fire too hard the closer you bring it to the wheel so why not move it farther back, it does not need to be as close as the slaves.

Anyway I hope some of this is useful to my fellow builders. None of this is set in stone. Just like everyone else I try different things that I think of and see if they pan out how I think they should.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the answer. I was pretty sure you were still running it in attraction mode. Anyway, this made me fire up my old hall switched wheel that I can adjust the timing on. It only has one 5 filar power (slave) coil and no trigger windings whatsoever.

When I set it up, I originally adjusted the timing for the highest RPM and best charging. I checked it with an automotive timing light and it fires from the charge battery cable just as the edge of the magnet reaches the leading edge of the core. And if I place the pickup on the run battery cable, it fires about a full magnet width before that magnet reaches the core. So this is running advanced in attraction mode.

I think with the pickup on the run battery cable it's showing me when the transistor turns on. And with the pickup on the charge battery cable it's showing me when the transistor turns off to create the high voltage pulse that we harvest. This wheel will only run in one direction with the hall triggering. It will not even run in the other (or retarded) direction.

I suspect the difference is that with a normal co-wound trigger coil the timing is not ideal for the power winding to reach it's max. This must be inherent in the design. But slightly shifting the trigger coil in relation to the rest of the power coils (multi coil) must allow one to shift it to the best timing. I can't tell from the leds in your videos exactly where the transistor turns off and the high voltage pulse occurs in relation to the magnet/core positioning. It would be interesting to see where the strobe from an automotive timing light would place the magnet on your setup.

It would also be interesting to see how a totally independent trigger coil would affect timing. It appears to me that you have come up with a pretty effective and simple way to maximize timming!

[BobZilla]

Hi Gary,
From what your describing I think you have it exactly right about what that light shows you. I know on my setup the timing is a little hard to see properly, especially on video. In real life it is a bit easier to see whats going on but still not perfect. I may try putting some black tape all the way around the outer edge so that the mark will show up better, that aluminum is super shiny and it kind of distorts the view. Also on that wheel I only have one mark but on my super pole I marked each magnet. I think I need to go ahead and mark each magnet on this one too. I may do away with the double light and just put a single on there as well. The double is kind of cool because it shows both polaritys but it gets a bit muddled up.

I have thought about a single dedicated trigger with no power winds too. If I do it I was thinking of a much smaller spool that I could mount on something that can have a lot of swing adjustment. I think there are some good gains to be figured out playing more with this timing on a multi-coil. I could be all wrong about it too, who knows if Mr. Bedini put the trigger on the same spool for an exacting purpose or if it was a matter of simplicity to get people to start building and learning from a basic design. I suspect with a single dedicated trigger we can have far better control at various inputs and RPM's, no more double and triple firing from cross induction of the power coil to the trigger.

Anyway nice to hear from you and thanks for sharing your experience!

[min2oly]

Excellent, now try it with the Bedini/Cole ctk
http://www.energeticforum.com/128221-post1031.html

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bob and Patrick,

Since this thread is about Bob's custom build I'll try not to stray too far off topic. I did, however, make a few more observations worth sharing when I hooked the automotive timing light to my newer wheel. It has a 7 power, 1 trigger wound coil (from Teslagenx) running with the Teslagenx circuit board and fixed base resistance. I checked the timing of both the transistor turn on and turn off positions in both radiant mode and common ground mode.

When operating with a single pulse per magnet, the transistor turn on position in the rotation was always the same for both modes of operation regardless of charge battery voltage or RPM. The turn off point, however, varied greatly with speed of rotation turning off much later as speed increased. That position moved from the leading edge of the core to the center of the core as RPM went up. This must be part of the self-servo action that JB talks about.

It makes sense to me that the on time with an inductive trigger would remain about the same at any speed, which would manifest as more degrees of rotation of the wheel at higher RPM because of the IR time constant. This is what I was seeing on the timing light and is also part of the reason that base resistance can be increased (to a point) as RPM goes up. (Another part of the reason would be that the induced voltage would increase with RPM.) Only the turn off timing point is affected by RPM and apparently has a best actual position in relation to the core?

But with a position based trigger, i.e. hall effect or opto coupled, the transistor on time decreases with increasing RPM. It does not self servo like with an inductive trigger. And this principle would apply to the Bedini-Cole circuit as well as the SSG. The triggering method of a mechanical system will affect the overall operation. Both seem to work and I don't know if there is any best way. One is fixed timing and the other self servos.

[BobZilla]

Hi Patrick,
Thanks for that link. I will have to go read more of the thread it came from to get an understanding of the context but just seeing what Mr. Bedini said their is encouraging that there just may be something to this.

Gary,
Please feel free to take the conversation anywhere you want, my thread is your thread. I value your experience and knowledge very much and love talking shop with like minded people. It is very interesting what you are sharing about the movement of the off time on the induction trigger. With my LED timing light which has both directions (red/blue) I see the whole thing shift left or right with rpm changes BUT I do also see an increase in the width of the mark which I think indicates the actual time current is flowing. As I said already I think I need to fix up my marks and make things easier to see before I can be too sure about it.

On kind of a side note I am noticing some really cool charging capability with the "retarded" setting. I had one of the wall mart deep cells on the back and 24v on the front and I wanted to see just for the heck of it how low I could run the machine with my coil spacing being what it is. Initially I had it down to about 500ma draw and running decent. When the voltage dropped on the primary it stopped (lost to much RPM) so I did it again but set to about 1A instead. The thing runs really good even down this low. The RPM was about 500 which is a little slow on this machine but it did charge one of those walmart batteries all the way up to 15.5! I had crazy spikes per pass going on but hell it was charging great on very little input. I mean 1A sounds like a lot to someone playing with a single coil setup sure but this was 32 transistors firing and yea I did check with my light that they were all firing. Anyway I will probably make a video of this but it just blew me away.

[BobZilla]

I am posting another run here today. This one is done with the superpole wheel installed.

On the back I have 4 large batteries. Two 75AH and two wallmart deep cells all in parallel. On the front I have 2 100AH in series. This run did not make it all the way to full charge because the primaries ran low before the back made it all the way up however it was a pretty darn good charge for such a big back bank. I am sure if I had more on the front they would have pushed all the way up. This video is not to prove out a full charge but rather just to get a look at the machine running on a large bank with the superpole.

The video will show but I started out at about 3A draw which sagged to just over 2A by the end because of the voltage drop. It was tuned in the retarded timing. I say in the video but I think a better term for those settings would be BDC and ADC (Before dead center/After dead center) meaning when the trigger coil is aligned dead center with the magnet the slave magnet is either before or after the slave core.





Video:
http://1drv.ms/1HuqBxQ

[BobZilla]

I rebuilt my cap dump board and gave it a turn. This run is a cap dump on two garden batteries in parallel and two walmart deep cells in series on the front.

The garden batteries were not fully discharged to start with, I was basically testing the board and it did pretty well.





Video:
http://1drv.ms/1H5jcBD

[BobZilla]

I have been working on a new machine idea and finally got to where I think I might be satisfied.

So far these are just plans but I have the files to get it fabricated. It would be a medium sized machine with a 5 inch wheel and three inch coils.

Here is the frame, there would be threaded rod between them as supports through the holes in the arm ends.


The wheel:



And mock up of what it would look like:



I am thinking about having the whole thing in Aluminum but I could go plastic too.

Excited?

[BobZilla]

Boy you guys are a tough crowd!

Nobody cared about the cap dumper video, nobody cares about a new build.

I guess I farted huh?

[John_Koorn]

Lol Bob! Sorry, life keeps getting in the way...

Everybody farts

John K.

[BobZilla]

But mine don't stink ;-)


So here is a different mock up of some plans I have been drawing up. This should be much more stable than the first one I posted but I liked all the cool lines on the other one.

[Tom C]

I have been working on a new machine idea and finally got to where I think I might be satisfied.

So far these are just plans but I have the files to get it fabricated. It would be a medium sized machine with a 5 inch wheel and three inch coils.

Here is the frame, there would be threaded rod between them as supports through the holes in the arm ends.


The wheel:



And mock up of what it would look like:



I am thinking about having the whole thing in Aluminum but I could go plastic too.

Excited?

Bob,

plastic please, aluminum can get eddy currents in it, if the aluminum is not spinning it will affect your build. let mew know about the coils, if you have a design I can print it for you, and can make the bobbins any size you want.

Tom C