BobZilla's Custom Build

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the answer. I was pretty sure you were still running it in attraction mode. Anyway, this made me fire up my old hall switched wheel that I can adjust the timing on. It only has one 5 filar power (slave) coil and no trigger windings whatsoever.

When I set it up, I originally adjusted the timing for the highest RPM and best charging. I checked it with an automotive timing light and it fires from the charge battery cable just as the edge of the magnet reaches the leading edge of the core. And if I place the pickup on the run battery cable, it fires about a full magnet width before that magnet reaches the core. So this is running advanced in attraction mode.

I think with the pickup on the run battery cable it's showing me when the transistor turns on. And with the pickup on the charge battery cable it's showing me when the transistor turns off to create the high voltage pulse that we harvest. This wheel will only run in one direction with the hall triggering. It will not even run in the other (or retarded) direction.

I suspect the difference is that with a normal co-wound trigger coil the timing is not ideal for the power winding to reach it's max. This must be inherent in the design. But slightly shifting the trigger coil in relation to the rest of the power coils (multi coil) must allow one to shift it to the best timing. I can't tell from the leds in your videos exactly where the transistor turns off and the high voltage pulse occurs in relation to the magnet/core positioning. It would be interesting to see where the strobe from an automotive timing light would place the magnet on your setup.

It would also be interesting to see how a totally independent trigger coil would affect timing. It appears to me that you have come up with a pretty effective and simple way to maximize timming!

[BobZilla]

Hi Gary,
Yea I am running attraction mode.

I will try to shoot another video and show the coils spacing and the amp draws with a little more detail.

I have said over the course of a few videos a few different things but it can be hard to keep up sometimes with all the different changes and reading other posts it all gets mixed up. Let me describe what I am running currently again.

One trigger wire on the bottom coil is doing the triggering for all others. The machine has 8 coils with 4 18AWG power winds each (teslagenx built)

I have the trigger coil offset to the right a bit, the slaves are to the left a bit. I did that with the slaves simply because I do not have a lot of wiggle room on my frame to make these adjustments. If I had more space I could just move the trigger coil and get the same effect.

This offset creates an advance on the trigger when spinning the wheel clockwise and a retard on the timing when spinning counter clock wise.

In addition to the timing adjustment I also have different spacing (gap) for the slaves than for the primary. The slaves are about an 8th inch gap while the primary is about half inch or so. This lets me get the maximum pull power from those slaves while not hitting the trigger too hard with the induction. I have only been setting up this way for a short time but so far it works very well. It occurred to me one day that with a multi coil you do not have to set them all at the same gap, the trigger has it's purpose which is far different from the slaves purpose. The slaves are pulling the wheel around and if brought in closer can have more pull power (they are just electro magnets after all). The trigger will fire too hard the closer you bring it to the wheel so why not move it farther back, it does not need to be as close as the slaves.

Anyway I hope some of this is useful to my fellow builders. None of this is set in stone. Just like everyone else I try different things that I think of and see if they pan out how I think they should.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bob,

Kudos on the timing shift video. That is a very interesting effect you show. I think you may have stated earlier in another post, but are you running it in repulsion mode or attraction mode. I assume you are running in attraction?

[BobZilla]

It seems pretty consistent on my system. Who knows though, far to often we try to attribute one thing to another when really there is something else going on.

Try it out and see for your self, I would be curious if you get similar results. All you need to do is slide your primary coil to one side a bit. When you spin one direction it will be advancing , the other it will have a retard. Pretty simple thing to play with. You will need a pot on your trigger however to adjust the current because the retard state draws less if given the same resistance so just as I did in the video you would need to adjust it to the same draw rate as the advanced setting. Also without adjusting the resistance at all I notice it still charges a bit better in the retard configuration but I was trying to make it apples to apples.

It would be easy to test on an old 3pm kit too if you had a pot hooked into one. Mine has been heavily modified and uses a different circuit so I can't use it to verify. The thing is that multi coils may have a lot to do with the effect. The primary coils power winds will be positioned the same as the trigger but all the slaves (28 on my machine) will have the offset. Not sure if a single coil machine will act the same.

*EDIT*
Another forum member PM'd me and pointed out a mistake I made in the video so I want to clarify. In the video I described the coil being moved to the left and the others to the right which would result in the reverse of what I described in regard to advance and retard. My mistake was that when adjusting the coils I am working on the machine with it spun around, looking at the back so I mistakenly said it backwards. When looking at the machine running the primary coil is shifted to the RIGHT and the slaves a little to the LEFT. Sorry for any confusion.

[Tom C]

you may have stumbled upon a "secret" if this pans out and is consistent that retarding? the master coil actually increases charging this may be a sign of the bloch wall being open longer in the center of the coil, allowing more radiant into the system. if ALL Things being the same, like primary current into the machine, then it is a good validation of a theory.

[BobZilla]

I have a little video here to share with the group.

This is showing some of the effect from both an advance and a retard in the timing of the trigger. The machine is setup the same as the last video, meaning the slaves are in far closer to the wheel than the primary coil. All coils have a timing offset and depending on the rotation direction it applies an advance or a retard on the firing.

http://1drv.ms/1JGFMnu

[BobZilla]

I'm back with a new run. This one is not a perfect run by any means. Towards the end of the run the machine jumped back from one spike to two and it shot the chart up and pulled hard on the primary. I decided to go ahead and post anyway as these kind of things happen and it may be helpful for beginners to see it and understand what is happening.

*EDIT*
(I planned to do the two runs but I am going to cancel that plan for now. I want to make some adjustments on the machine and that would not be a fair comparison)

This run was the first of two as I described in the last post. We have two garden batteries in parallel on the back and my two 100AH in series on the front. In hind sight I needed to let this one go maybe 15 min longer because they rested down to like 12.8 and I know they usually will rest around 13. The double spike incident threw me off and I thought they were done. Maybe we will do this one again for a cleaner go at it but for what it's worth here are the charts and a video.





http://1drv.ms/1JzufF7

Note:
I have noticed these vids do not stream in firefox, but with IE you can stream instead of DL.

[BobZilla]

Thanks John!

This thing has been a lot of work to get it to this point. I have about half a coffee can full of blown transistors. They are probably not all blown but I just got into a habit of replacing all four on a board when there was a problem. I will have to go through and test them to see if I have any keepers in the bunch. For all of the up and downs it has been worth it too see it through. In my view this machine is like a little brother to the amazing machine Mr. Bedini showed in the vacuum videos.

So about your observation with the series vs parallel charge. I'n not sure yet which is more efficient. I have not had all the coils working long enough to really have a feel for the best tuning. I can say that the 4A 24 volt draw was not quite at the top end of where I could take it but it seems to be plenty good enough. It is in one spike per pass at that point but if I go further I can get into a bit stronger charging and then the wheel will start dragging itself. I don't want to push it too hard because I am also aware that there is a lot of induction into that trigger when running like that. That is why I increased my intermediate resistance a little.

I plan to do some runs for the group to compare a series vs parallel charge side. What I can do is put three of those garden batteries on the back, first in parallel and then in series to observe the difference. I probably will not have time to babysit runs like that until the weekend though. Right now I am testing out in gen mode on 12v and it is doing very well at about 2A draw.

[John_Koorn]

Hey Bob, beautiful machine. Big thumbs up

To me it looked like the best efficiency might be 24v primary and 2 x 12v in parallel secondary? I noticed the amp draw when you had 24v secondary was around 5A, whereas when you had those batteries in parallel for 12v the draw was only 4A.

Thanks for sharing...

John K.

[BobZilla]

Lol , not interested in the machine, just the fancy monitor ehh......

Just messing with you. Yea it's a droid tablet which has an open VNC connection to a desktop on the floor. I got a cheap refurbished dell for about 100 bucks and just remote to that. This way I can take the tablet with me into the other rooms and still see what's happening on the charge station, slick huh :-)

[Branch Gordon]

What is that monitor you are using? Is that a tablet?

UPDATE:

The machine is now running on all 8 coils. I am posting a video of it spinning up on some already charged batteries. Later on I will get into some full runs if anyone is interested but this just shows the machine spinning up, shifting and topping up on these batteries.

Enjoy:
http://1drv.ms/1FQS20B

[BobZilla]

UPDATE:

The machine is now running on all 8 coils. I am posting a video of it spinning up on some already charged batteries. Later on I will get into some full runs if anyone is interested but this just shows the machine spinning up, shifting and topping up on these batteries.

Enjoy:
http://1drv.ms/1FQS20B

[John_Koorn]

Hi Bob, For that U1-7 I'd got for about 650mA.

John K.

[BobZilla]

Thanks John. What draw rate would you estimate is right for c20 on a typical garden battery? I'm guessing about 800ma?

I have a CBA so I will do a run down test but I am curious where others consider to be a c20 rate.

[John_Koorn]

Bob, the U1-7 looks like the same as JB has. From memory he rated them at 13 Ah.

John K.